Muslims

[smoothg103rd]

On tv the other day I watched Muslims put a woman in a pit and stone her to death, that's Islam in a nutshell. Wherever Muslims are is a cluster-fuck of violence, poverty, and ignorance. Niggers are naturally attracted to it.

The other day on Tv I seen white Christians hang people because the color of their skin. I seen pastors molest little boys . And individual act of someone of a belief doesn't define the belief.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

When Christians do things it still outrages the better sort of people, when Muslims do it its an occasion for community dancing in the streets.

 

[Liar]

Why do everyone here bash Muslims?

Loaded question is loaded.

 

[Mrclean_sober]

*****

 

[Mrclean_sober]

*****

 

[possum123]

Religions or cults are for those who cannot depend on themselves to do what is right.
It a person needs to be told what to do them religion or cult is right for them.

 

[Sean Renaud]

That is amazingly astute. Most people that I run into that don't happen to believe in it to any degree, would not understand the brilliance of what you just wrote.

Thank you. That's been my experience as

-snip-​

So I was having a crisis of faith one time when this conversation happened. I was reaching agnostic. The reasons don;t matter. I expressed some fear that I was losing faith, she explained (correctly I think) that actual faith requires that you have the integrity to be able to have doubt.

Thank you. That's been my experience as whole however. The Bible is often held up as an excuse for this that or the other but if you point out all the things that contradict it either in the Bible or when I'm told all about how modern law descends from the Bible and you point out how much we reject they kinda clam up. Or my opinion on evolution is well known, but something kinda irks me about "well God totally parted the Red Sea, brought a man back from the dead, had a virgin birth (as his own father in a way) but when he says seven days he's speaking metaphorically and he used a process. Just pick a goddamn side.

Honestly as much shit as I may give people for various religious beliefs I do believe in your freedom to choose. I only fault you for your religion (you in the generic NOT ME sense) when you attempt to use it to decide what choices I can and can't make. God making Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve is NOT the basis of a legal argument, nor really is tens of thousands of years of tradition. God put a soul in there at conception is not a reason against abortion. (while I still disagree if you want to claim life begins at conception that's annoying but whatever we can address that.) We are not going to even entertain teaching the "controversy" between evolution, intelligent design and creationism. There is no controversy within the scientific community.

There's the rub. There are principles taught in the Christian Faiths (and really most religions) that I truly believe would benefit my children to follow. People that manage to follow a Christian faith with love and joy tend to lead happy productive lives.

The flip side is that it tends to be polarizing. If you think black and white, sin and righteousness...you set yourself up for some vicious negative spirals of self-doubt when you don't "measure up" to impossibly high standards.

Well of course there are, but it's entirely possible to divorce whatever positives may be garnered from religion from the belief in the supernatural (I doubt it's a coincidence that America being by far the most "religious" Industrial Nation and having education issues is a coincidence.) I mean honestly the majority of the good principles taught in the Christian Faith or any other religion are also taught by Yoda, Mr. Miyagi, Princess Celestia, Zordon, Ben 10, Professor X and Master Splinter. With the added bonus that it's virtually impossible to use Yoda as an excuse for why you let your kid die. (Mini rant, I know full well that this irks me a lot.) Every year or so we hear about some kid who either dies or comes close to dying because his parents won't take him to the hospitable because "God will heal them" and it seems that they have at best a 50/50 chance of paying for it instead of that being a flat out admission of guilt and children taken away. If I took out "God will heal my son" and replaced it with "Zordon will use the Morphin Grid or Yoda the Force or Princess Celestia's Rainbow Power" you wouldn't entertain my bullshit for a heartbeat.

With religion, especially amongst true believers it can be difficult to divorce stupid shit, like don't eat pork (which made perfect sense when proper cooking methods were both unreliable and unknown technically speaking) get circumcised (which was/is logical in places and times where proper hygiene was difficult to impossible.) From shit like Creationism or kill the infidels. With the possible exception of Star Wars vs Star Trek none of the fictional characters I mentioned have the loaded history of the other fictional characters.

For the record I don't believe that there are really ANY huge conflicts that are actually or have been actually caused primarily because of religion. I think in 90% of cases a quick look can tell you that there was some other reason and the religion was more of an excuse and easily identifiable mark than anything else. So less polarizing, less black and white.

Again, well said. Sounds like you are intimately familiar with the community. A lot of critics of religion fail to impress me because they obviously don't know the first thing about doctrine or culture. Easy for them to throw rocks from the outside when their ignorance is complete.

I did grow up in it though I became an agnostic fairly early and an atheist (well in the grande scheme of things I'm still young) early as well. But I grew up with and around and still interact with the community. With the exceptions that I mentioned above and probably a few others that aren't coming immediately to mind I find religion to largely be harmless.

And I know you didn't ask but it's often asked why we don't criticize Islam as much as Christianity. Islam doesn't effect my life in any significant way. ISIS is really the worst of them and there a non-threat. But I do have to deal with gay rights, abortion, creationism as a constant threat in the world. When a Muslim President sets us back a decade in medicine because his religion tells him Stem Cell research is wrong I'll be right there with you. But as it stands Muslims are a persecuted minority in the US not a dominant faction who don't seem to under that saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas is not a threat to your way of fucking life.

I have been privileged to know a few inspiring people that can do just that, and they are exceptionally rare. I have noticed they do this by loving the sinner and keeping their concerns about the sin to themselves.

I'm not entirely sure that counts. I mean again if I saw someone hurting themselves I would be obligated to step up because I love them. Silence is ultimately nobody's friend.

However when I say always and never I often mean the vast majority of the time and virtually never and simply shorthand. Like I have no problem saying that noone ever wins the lottery because we have 300 million Americans and how many winners dating back to the founding of the country?

I know one who seems to be that way myself. My point however is that a lot of those people hide behind it and use it as the opposite of the genuine flustered "I didn't call you stupid, I said you were ACTING STUPID". In this case however they are calling you stupid they just remembered to phrase it properly.

Loaded question is loaded.

The question isn't loaded, it's just a gimmick post. Anybody who spent any amount of time her ewould tell you that we don't all bash muslims here. We simply don't. Even if you only count the people who have and voice an opinion on the subject it's not all negative.

 

[smoothg103rd]

Oh, and with regard to molestation and touching the kiddies, you may want to get familiar with the pedophile ring they busted over in the UK. Apparently having sex with kids isn't limited to one religion. If you're gonna tell the story, tell the whole story, otherwise you risk being considered biased and foolish.

Majority of the practice religion in the UK is Christianity. So whats your point.

 

[smoothg103rd]

Really, is there video of current day Christians hanging people for the color of their skin, or were you watching History channel? Ironically, YouTube is full of videos of current day Muslims beheading Christians, kids, rival Muslims, women who dare to express themselves, and anyone else that gets in their way. The sins of Christians in the past are detestable but, seems a little disingenuous to bring those up and not acknowledge the sins of the present being perpetrated by Muslims. Not to mention, it's possible that the religion of Islam is being used as the red herring for the actual goal which is the typical grab for power. I believe the Ayatollah did the same thing in Iran, used religion as a tool to garner support, with the aid of some friends in the west of course.

Self Defense they don't teach that turn the other cheek bullshit.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

But islam make the most sense to me and was the religion of my ancestors. So if I had to choose it will be it. My father Muslim one of my babymothers is Muslim and a couple of my friends and family. They might not be on their dean but its their religion. And what they explain to me make sense

Most Christians are Christians for the same reasons. They are influenced by family members or close friends. Very few people engage in an objective comparative analysis of different religions and ultimately choose one based on that analysis.

Islam makes the most "sense" to you because that is what you have been primarily exposed to, and it is only natural that you would have an affinity for that religion. This is all the more likely if the Muslims within your circle of friends and family are people for whom you hold particular respect and admiration. Their obvious "endorsement" of Islam would naturally be persuasive to you.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Honestly as much shit as I may give people for various religious beliefs I do believe in your freedom to choose. I only fault you for your religion (you in the generic NOT ME sense) when you attempt to use it to decide what choices I can and can't make. God making Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve is NOT the basis of a legal argument, nor really is tens of thousands of years of tradition. God put a soul in there at conception is not a reason against abortion. (while I still disagree if you want to claim life begins at conception that's annoying but whatever we can address that.) We are not going to even entertain teaching the "controversy" between evolution, intelligent design and creationism. There is no controversy within the scientific community.

The very definition of "God" holds that he is the ultimate moral authority by virtue of his divine omniscience. You and I can extend and celebrate our individual freedom to choose, but if there is one belief Christianity and Islam share it is that God will ultimately hold us responsible for our choices.

People who condemn or attempt to divert us from our wicked ways, however awkward and graceless their efforts, truly believe in their heart of hearts that they are acting in OUR best interests.

Spiritual conversion is necessarily preceded by judgment, and neither conversion nor judgment is intended to make us miserable but to save us from a spiritual misery.

Beheadings or other homicides, of course, are pure judgment that the process of conversion is fruitless or not applicable due to other spiritual or secular beliefs or precepts.

 

[Mrclean_sober]

*****

 

[Mrclean_sober]

*****

 

[smoothg103rd]

Most Christians are Christians for the same reasons. They are influenced by family members or close friends. Very few people engage in an objective comparative analysis of different religions and ultimately choose one based on that analysis.

Islam makes the most "sense" to you because that is what you have been primarily exposed to, and it is only natural that you would have an affinity for that religion. This is all the more likely if the Muslims within your circle of friends and family are people for whom you hold particular respect and admiration. Their obvious "endorsement" of Islam would naturally be persuasive to you.

Nah I been around more Christians than Muslims. Growing up my grandmother took me to church a couple of times. The muslim family I have is the ones that been locked up. When I say my ancestors I mean the ones that was brought from Africa on slave ships.

 

[smoothg103rd]

You seem to specialize in making absolutely no sense. For someone who doesn't have a religion, you seem very interested in defending one. You also seem unwilling or unable to find any fault with the side you've chosen.

From what I know is Muslims do not harm the faithful. In the middle east its different than the Muslims in America. Muslims in the middle east are still fighting for their belief. America is Christian country so Muslims over here is not fighting the same fight.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Why do everyone here bash Muslims? Do you realize that Islam is a religion of peace? I don't have a religion, but if I did I would take my shahada. And to me the way they live makes more sense than Christians. As I said I'm not a religious person but it seems to me that the Masjid is more faithful than a Church. Just my opinion

yeah, islam is about peace .... now off with your head!

why do guys that are muslim wear dresses?

 

[Que]

@sean

Although it's true that I don't recall hearing any major public commentary by American Islamic leaders on the social issues you mentioned. Their members vote on those social issues and I would suspect more often than not They are on what you would consider the wrong side of the issues. Just because they are neither vocal nor a majority does not mean that their religion is not just as much or more so of a threat to those issues.

 

[Libsam]

Lets get all conspiratorial in here!

Ever heard that both Christian and Muslim religions were created by the Jews to keep their slaves under control? Yeah, so there's that.

 

[Sean Renaud]

@sean

Although it's true that I don't recall hearing any major public commentary by American Islamic leaders on the social issues you mentioned. Their members vote on those social issues and I would suspect more often than not They are on what you would consider the wrong side of the issues. Just because they are neither vocal nor a majority does not mean that their religion is not just as much or more so of a threat to those issues.

They do. But they are not a monolithic group. Without that power focusing any energy on them is at best an exercise. They are not above criticism for their beliefs and the decisions they make because of them. I've never heard a Muslim say a single word about how Ramadan (or any other holiday they hold) isn't given the proper respect. And if they did I might be inclined to support them. I don't really see how a country without an official religion justifies Christmas being a completely legal federal holiday and Easter not primarily because everybody takes Sunday off anyway. Though that's one of the rare cases where I will say local governments have their place. Where I live(d) (it's been over a decade since I've been in school now) several Jewish Holidays are just a day off. Mostly because the schools and employers got sick and tired of 20% of their workers magically calling off the same goddamn days and in school the teachers who didn't kind of tacitly agreeing that was movie day or something else since so many students were out that you'd have to repeat the day for too many students.

The reality is America is still a white "christian" (you know my opinion on that already) nation. You cannot accomplish anything politically if you actually offend that group. In a few decades if everybody who isn't a white "Christian" all unite the same way they'll be capable of winning but as it stands all those groups united with a bunch of people from those groups win what? A little more than 60% of the time depending on how you want to look at the history of Presidents and Congressmen?

I know this is a little off subject but THAT is the power of the privilege that is often claimed not to exist. White "Christians" have sufficient power in our nation that they can in fight amongst themselves and fight over silly shit like which brand of Christianity you are, or North or South or liberal or Conservative (if you want I could easily make the case that both Blacks and Latinos are more religious than Americans as a whole, more likely to be against gay marriage, abortion, pro-Creationism and overall Socially Conservative. And kinda evenly split on fiscal issues with possible breaks on the "welfare state" but they virtually NEVER vote Conservative despite lining up that way philosophically.) In fighting is one of those benefits of winning so hard that you don't even realize how easily your winning.

Muslims in America don't seem to really give a shit about Sunni, Shiite or Kurd. But that might have something to do with the number of Hindus that get attacked by rednecks that can't tell one group of brown people aside.

Which is the point (yeah I'm long winded). it's not that they aren't wrong it's that they aren't the the elephant in the room. They are a silent pig. Sure I need bacon but the elephant is taking up the most space.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

What I observe is: The minute you hire an Indian or Muslim or Chink everyone gets on board a conspiracy to kiss their asses and avoid offending them. Pork and beef are suddenly off the menu and goat, chicken, and mutton are on it for the Christmas Party.

 

[duranman]

I know a Muslim couple who are swingers. Fuck knows who they swing with 'cos they're so damned ugly, but nonetheless...

 

[Sean Renaud]

What I observe is: The minute you hire an Indian or Muslim or Chink everyone gets on board a conspiracy to kiss their asses and avoid offending them. Pork and beef are suddenly off the menu and goat, chicken, and mutton are on it for the Christmas Party.

So basically you get better meals for Christmas and have to act polite? The HORROR!

 

[toubab]

Non-Muslims of the world need to wake the fuck up and stop ignoring the growing menace of Islamic fundamentalism. Non-crazy Muslims also.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The very definition of "God" holds that he is the ultimate moral authority by virtue of his divine omniscience. You and I can extend and celebrate our individual freedom to choose, but if there is one belief Christianity and Islam share it is that God will ultimately hold us responsible for our choices.

People who condemn or attempt to divert us from our wicked ways, however awkward and graceless their efforts, truly believe in their heart of hearts that they are acting in OUR best interests.

Spiritual conversion is necessarily preceded by judgment, and neither conversion nor judgment is intended to make us miserable but to save us from a spiritual misery.

Beheadings or other homicides, of course, are pure judgment that the process of conversion is fruitless or not applicable due to other spiritual or secular beliefs or precepts.

Oh I agree with you whole heartedly. As long as they let god to the judging and accept that a law needs to be based on something other than a two thousand year old fairy tale we don't have a problem. God can have his say when I die.

I agree and stated already that I know people who are trying to divert us from our wicked ways are trying to be helpful. I just would rather they helped a little less but I get it. And I know they aren't trying to make us miserable. I'm not entirely clear on how Islamic law works as far as getting into Heaven to be honest. As I understand it Jewish law doesn't necessarily require you to be a Jew to get into what passes for heaven in their religion. Granted it helps but it helps in the same way that if having directions to Disney Land makes it easier to get to Disney Land. Not knowing doesn't actually stop you from arriving there. Just makes it less likely.

Beheadings are just dick moves but agreed again.

 

[Black_and_White_Writer]

Nothing New - Unfortunaty

Islam has been wrestling with this for centuries.

I recently watched Jinnah after the terrible death of Sir Christopher Lee about Muhammad Ali Jinnah and was reminded of what Pakistan has been wrestling with for decades... Islamist Extremism.

http://youtu.be/XncdHTp9LRk