No Children Allowed

[LadyJeanne]

This is such a huge pet peeve of mine!

In high school, I worked in a department store where the parents would just drop their kids off in the toy section and then leave to go shopping! Hello??! It's a store, not daycare. Then the little monsters would tear up the shelves and, naturally, it wasn't mom that helped put them back together.

I loathe those parents who take no responsibility and pay no mind to what their kids are doing while the rest of us have to dodge them with our hot coffee in hand. Guess who'd get sued if I'd dropped one of those hot cups on some kid's head because he ran full force into my legs?

I go out of my way not to go to the coffee shop/bagel place nearest my house between 9am and 3pm because it's full of moms/nannies, their kids AND their double-wide strollers that block every other walking space the kids aren't running in.

You'll never find me in a 'family' restaurant unless it's 3am. If the bookstore with the kids corner is filled with shrieking rugrats, I leave and take my business elsewhere.

Thank god they haven't infiltrated the porn shop!!!

 

[Guest]

Those without children always seem to have such excellent parenting skills.

And that is a pet peeve of mine, actually.

If you've ever said, "Well, MY children will never do . . ." and you don't yet have kids? You're in for quite a surprise.




(edited to add - LJ, this isn't directed at your post, just this entire thread in general. I realized after I posted that it seemed slanted towards you. Not the case.)

 

[Hummingbyrd]

MSNBC is running an excellent article about how people and businesses are finally getting tired of the parents that let their little monsters run free, annoying everybody else on the planet.

Now I have nothing against children, I was once one myself, but those parents that let their child(ren) run around without supervision should be wacked upside the head.

Back, when I was a child, you had better be well behaved. Adults were addressed as "Sir" or "Ma'am". You were always polite, never rude. You didn't run around screaming at the top of your lungs in the store or restaurant. You were taught to behave and not embarrass your parents.

And that is how my children were brought up and how their children are being brought up.

Well I don't know about the 'sir' and 'maam' crap or the parents' level of embarrassment, but no, kids should not be left to run amok. Isn't the eleventh commandment 'thou shalt not raise little assholes?' Consideration for others should be taught early.

 

[Aurora Black]

(edited to add - LJ, this isn't directed at your post, just this entire thread in general. I realized after I posted that it seemed slanted towards you. Not the case.)

The same goes for me, I hope.

 

[Guest]

The same goes for me, I hope.

It was in general, 'rora, honestly. I apologized to LJ because I used similar dialogue to her post and I posted right after her.

 

[Aurora Black]

It was in general, 'rora, honestly. I apologized to LJ because I used similar dialogue to her post and I posted right after her.

Okay, because I realize now that my "sheer laziness" comment sounded harsh.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

Okay, because I realize now that my "sheer laziness" comment sounded harsh.

It wasn't.
And this from a mother of three...

 

[Aurora Black]

It wasn't.
And this from a mother of three...

Glad to hear it.

 

[JamesSD]

Back, when I was a child, you had better be well behaved. Adults were addressed as "Sir" or "Ma'am". You were always polite, never rude. You didn't run around screaming at the top of your lungs in the store or restaurant. You were taught to behave and not embarrass your parents.

And that is how my children were brought up and how their children are being brought up.

While I do agree with you in principle, I think children calling adults "Sir" or "Ma'am" is a little too Children of the Corn creepy for me. "Please" and "Thank you" are critical, but I'm glad our society has dropped a lot of the stiff formalism of yesteryear.

I can't look down my own nose too much at parents though. I haven't become one yet, so I can only imagine the challenges involved.

 

[Seattle Zack]

One of my favorite restaurants here in Seattle instituted an unnofficial "no kids" policy about a year ago. It's a great place, down on the waterfront: awesome view, big portions, great wine list, the kind of place you'd take a girl on the third date when she's considering that all-important "should I sleep with him or not?" question.

They even say it on their menu (paraphrasing): "XXX welcomes all our guests, but we strive to provide an excellent dining experience for our adult customers. As such, we respectfully request that you do not bring your children when choosing to dine with us."

To their credit, they provide nothing for kids. No children's menu, no booster seats. Of course, in politcally correct Seattle there was a lttle fallout when a local meda outlet decded to make this "news" ... some single mom brought her six little bastards in for some sort of defiant "protest" and they all chowed down on the crab cakes. Not sure how she paid for the meal. Maybe it was the first or the fifteenth.

Anyway, it's refreshing to go out to a place where you don't have to worry about some kid chanting a Barney medley as he runs down the aisle with his Color-A-Menu placemat in hs hand, his mother trying one of those "ain't he cute" grimaces while the guy she's with blanches in horrified realization.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

It's all Spock's fault! -- That's Dr Benjamin Spock, not Science Officer Mr Spock.

Today's crop of children are the third generation of children raised according to Dr Spock's "Enlightened" child-rearing philosophy -- and the increasingly more "feel-good" child-rearing philosophies derived from his vision.

True, Harold. And, as I recall, Benjamin Spock recanted his entire phylosophy just before his death a few years ago too, saying, "I can see now, I was wrong."

 

[Weird Harold]

True, Harold. And, as I recall, Benjamin Spock recanted his entire phylosophy just before his death a few years ago too, saying, "I can see now, I was wrong."

If he did so, then I have to disagree with him. Even though I believe his book on child-rearing is largely responsile for the current "feel-good" child-rearing philosophy, it's because he was, and still is, misunderstood and mis-interpreted -- NOT because he was wrong.

 

[FallingToFly]

Well I don't know about the 'sir' and 'maam' crap or the parents' level of embarrassment, but no, kids should not be left to run amok. Isn't the eleventh commandment 'thou shalt not raise little assholes?' Consideration for others should be taught early.

That 'sir' and 'maam' crap as you call it is actually a wonderful little invention called manners.

Even if adults can't be bothered with them, I'm quite proud that my children have them.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Well I don't know about the 'sir' and 'maam' crap or the parents' level of embarrassment, but no, kids should not be left to run amok. Isn't the eleventh commandment 'thou shalt not raise little assholes?' Consideration for others should be taught early.

The "Sir" and "Ma'am" 'crap' as you put it is a vital tool in the teaching of manners. In other words "thou shalt not raise little assholes". If a child can't be polite and use proper manners how do you expect them to NOT be little assholes?

That 'sir' and 'maam' crap as you call it is actually a wonderful little invention called manners.

Even if adults can't be bothered with them, I'm quite proud that my children have them.

I too am proud of my Children for their good manners and polite responses to others. They are now both married and have their own children who are well mannered and polite.

 

[FallingToFly]

I too am proud of my Children for their good manners and polite responses to others. They are now both married and have their own children who are well mannered and polite.

Mine are a long way off that yet- but the warning has already gone out that any teenage rebellion will be silenced with a naked horsewhipping in the backyard. I had to make an example out of my 23 year old brother (who I raised and the Army unraised) recently by literally chasing him out of the house with a broom, beating him all about the head, for raising both his hand and voice to me in my own house.

My children have been very careful in phrasing their complaints to me lately.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

While I do agree with you in principle, I think children calling adults "Sir" or "Ma'am" is a little too Children of the Corn creepy for me. "Please" and "Thank you" are critical, but I'm glad our society has dropped a lot of the stiff formalism of yesteryear.

I can't look down my own nose too much at parents though. I haven't become one yet, so I can only imagine the challenges involved.

How can manners be termed "stiff formalism of yesteryear"? If the adults are unknown to the child and the adult is not trying to harm the child a simple "Yes, sir" or "No, sir" to questions is only polite. If the child knows the adult then I would expect my children to respond with "Yes, Mr./Mrs./Miss (insert last name here)" or "No, Mr./Mrs./Miss (insert last name here)".

This is polite speech not "stiff formalism of yesteryear".

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Mine are a long way off that yet- but the warning has already gone out that any teenage rebellion will be silenced with a naked horsewhipping in the backyard. I had to make an example out of my 23 year old brother (who I raised and the Army unraised) recently by literally chasing him out of the house with a broom, beating him all about the head, for raising both his hand and voice to me in my own house.

My children have been very careful in phrasing their complaints to me lately.

As children get older and start to unlearn some of the manners they were taught, sometimes a 2by4 to the side of the head is best used to get their attention and get them to remember their manners.

 

[ChilledVodkaIV]

Sir and Ma'am imply respect, authoritarian respect, or rank, rather than common manners. Catch my kids using those terms and I'll be reaching for Zeb's 2x4.

Politeness is due everybody. Respect has to be earned.

Yes sir, sir.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Sir and Ma'am imply respect, authoritarian respect, or rank, rather than common manners. Catch my kids using those terms and I'll be reaching for Zeb's 2x4.

Politeness is due everybody. Respect has to be earned.

Yes sir, sir.

I guess it's all in where and what era you were brought up. I was taught to respect my elders when I was a child. Even if those elders were complete assholes. A child is a reflection of the parent and a child without respect for others has no manners as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Liar]

How can manners be termed "stiff formalism of yesteryear"?

Using formal titles as Sir and Ma'am does not equal or guarantee manners. You can be a total snide loudmouth brat and still end every sentence with a Sir. It means nothing if you don't mean it. And if you mean it, whayt do you mean by it? Is it is an acknowledge of that person's authority over you, or his/her gereral societal status? Or something else?

I was taught to treat everyone friendly, patiently, attentively and most of all, equally. Be they my friends, younger kids, teachers, old folks, police, or the King of Siam. That's manners and respect to me.

Now, I don't see it as particulaty wrong to say it either. Just that don't see the significance.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Using formal titles as Sir and Ma'am does not equal or guarantee manners. You can be a total snide loudmouth brat and still end every sentence with a Sir. It means nothing if you don't mean it. And if you mean it, whayt do you mean by it? Is it is an acknowledge of that person's authority over you, or his/her gereral societal status? Or something else?

I was taught to treat everyone friendly, patiently, attentively and most of all, equally. Be they my friends, younger kids, teachers, old folks, police, or the King of Siam. That's manners and respect to me.

Now, I don't see it as particulaty wrong to say it either. Just that don't see the significance.

As I said in my post prior to yours, it depends on where and when you were brought up.

 

[Aurora Black]

There are some people who are uncomfortable with being addressed formally with "Sir" or "Ma'am."

I remember back when I was in high school and I briefly called my Biology teacher "Sir," and he clearly didn't like it. I don't know if he thought I was being impertinent or what, but I stopped calling him that soon afterward.

"Mr./Mrs./Ms." works just fine with most folks, I've found. Unless they're older or from the South, I'm guessing.

 

[Hummingbyrd]

Sir and Ma'am imply respect, authoritarian respect, or rank, rather than common manners. Catch my kids using those terms and I'll be reaching for Zeb's 2x4.

Politeness is due everybody. Respect has to be earned.

Yes sir, sir.

Thank you. Sir and ma'am implies fear, not respect. Children that use such terms are fearful or faking it. I'd rather have them be sincere and have/show real respect.

 

[Hummingbyrd]

I guess it's all in where and what era you were brought up. I was taught to respect my elders when I was a child. Even if those elders were complete assholes. A child is a reflection of the parent and a child without respect for others has no manners as far as I'm concerned.

There's a difference between having manners and feigning respect. I'll take walking the walk over talking the talk any day of the week. A child IS a reflection of the parent. And manners encompass so many things that are more important than "sir" and "ma'am".

 

[Weird Harold]

There's a difference between having manners and feigning respect. I'll take walking the walk over talking the talk any day of the week. A child IS a reflection of the parent. And manners encompass so many things that are more important than "sir" and "ma'am".

Sir and Ma'am are only one small sympton of "good manners" and are NOT an absolute necessity. It is possible tohave good manners without being that formal.

However, I'm likely to recognise "good manners quicker" if a child requests my attention with, "Excuse me, Sir" rather than with, "Hey, You!"

A part of "good manners" is granting conditional respect -- or "feigning respect," if you prefer -- until someone demonstrates whether deserve respect or not.

There are other "polite modes of address" involved in "good manners" and I would expect older children to utilize some of the nuances possible within the bounds of "Formal Good Manners" -- a la Emily Post -- but teaching young children to use a single mode of address is much easier than trying to teach all of the nuances and possibilities at once; they can learn about the exceptions and alternatives as they grow capable of understanding them.