Obama keeps fucking up, Part III

[Sonny Limatina]

Sorry about pointing out your lack of reading comprehension, but I'm sure it will happen again.

That's Ok, he won't understand it the second time, either.

 

[firespin]

So now the right is proud of the number of houses sold during the sub-prime mess that fucked us up in the first place?

Hold on.

Hahahahaha!!!!111

OK, I'm sorry. You were saying something.

Wouldn't that be the snappy rejoinder to criticism of (say) 800,000 unit sales, "they're not what they were in the bubble!" or something?

Whereas the 400,000 number is lower than any number in the 1970's, when the population was a third less or so. So...not so good.

But keep trying, you'll get one eventually!

 

[Ham Murabi]

A) There's a difference between what people say they're going to do when a pollster asks, and what they actually do--and even between what they intend to do, and what they eventually do. Even if they were eventually going to buy, the handouts were designed to get them buying now. They worked.

(As for whether that was the right strategy, that's a different discussion. And of course sales briefly tanked right afterward--everyone had just bought cars. Most of what I've read says the auto industry loved Cash for Clunkers, by the way.)

B) Fucking love the golf cart story.

I helped my son get into a house in Vegas, one that sold for $152,000. It was built several years ago and the original owner paid over $450,000 for it.
The home might be worth $200,000 some day, but it was never worth $450,000.
Given that set of circumstances, and given that the market was heating up on its own simply because prices were falling, what's the rationale for giving your money and mine to people to buy homes that are already at rock-bottom prices?

 

[Sonny Limatina]

Wouldn't that be the snappy rejoinder to criticism of (say) 800,000 unit sales, "they're not what they were in the bubble!" or something?

Whereas the 400,000 number is lower than any number in the 1970's, when the population was a third less or so. So...not so good.

But keep trying, you'll get one eventually!

"He hasn't fixed EVERYTHING!! The numbers were supposed to skip all the spaces in between and get to 800,000 on their own!! The socialist sucks!"

 

[Sean]

Heaven forbid we actually have a smart guy in the WH.

Heaven forbid we have smart people in government.

It's something I've never understood about the American political discourse. Over here we quite like our leaders to be clever.

 

[firespin]

"He hasn't fixed EVERYTHING!! The numbers were supposed to skip all the spaces in between and get to 800,000 on their own!! The socialist sucks!"

Now, now, you're not going to blend in with that. Try this:

"Even WITH a taxpayer-funded handout to people who hardly need one, we've only achieved results that would represent a crisis level of sales dearth for most of the past fifty years!"

 

[firespin]

It's something I've never understood about the American political discourse. Over here we quite like our leaders to be clever.

If we depend on somebody, like an airline pilot, then we're sort of ok with paying for competence.

If we have to have one anyway, whether we need it or not, like a politician, or a car salesman, we keep them on a short leash. What smart person wants that job?

 

[islandman]

I helped my son get into a house in Vegas, one that sold for $152,000. It was built several years ago and the original owner paid over $450,000 for it.
The home might be worth $200,000 some day, but it was never worth $450,000.
Given that set of circumstances, and given that the market was heating up on its own simply because prices were falling, what's the rationale for giving your money and mine to people to buy homes that are already at rock-bottom prices?

To open up the credit markets.

Rock-bottom prices and low interest rates were around a year ago, but you didn't see buyers in the market. The first time home buyer credit is an incentive to get credit-worthy customers to buy and for banks to lend.

 

[islandman]

It's something I've never understood about the American political discourse. Over here we quite like our leaders to be clever.

We like ours to come with good hair, snappy comebacks, dazzling smiles and a promise to make up for their lack of mental dexterity with a stable of advisors unmatched in the annals of history. Reference the McCain-Palin ticket for more information.

Give me someone who can effectively rub two brain cells together.

 

[Sonny Limatina]

I helped my son get into a house in Vegas, one that sold for $152,000. It was built several years ago and the original owner paid over $450,000 for it.
The home might be worth $200,000 some day, but it was never worth $450,000.
Given that set of circumstances, and given that the market was heating up on its own simply because prices were falling, what's the rationale for giving your money and mine to people to buy homes that are already at rock-bottom prices?

So were people's salaries--and confidence. But this is that "other" discussion. The problem with ideology is that it's containable--it has boundaries. Conservatism can ask the question you're asking and have it make utter sense within the bounds of a very deeply considered polictical and social construct. Same with liberalism. "People need help, and it's the government's responsibility to help them."

Both schools of thought have important elements, but neither takes actual human behavior into account. They both think they do, but over and over again, we see examples of behavior that defies the foundations of each school of thought. People really DO become complacent on welfare, no matter what liberal philosophy suggests. People really DO respond to incentives and deadlines, no matter what the (true) conservatives say. People feel simultaneously alienated and dependent on the government, probably for the same reasons they believe in God.

In other words, everything you're saying is correct and logical, but the facts are logic are irrelevent. (Firespin's going to make my saying that his signature.) People need behavioral incentives, and short-term hand-outs are one kind that does seem to work.

 

[firespin]

We like ours to come with good hair, snappy comebacks, dazzling smiles and a promise to make up for their lack of mental dexterity with a stable of advisors unmatched in the annals of history. Reference the McCain-Palin ticket for more information.

Give me someone who can effectively rub two brain cells together.

You're saying Palin was brought in to provide good hair?

It does explain a lot of things.

 

[Sean]

We like ours to come with good hair, snappy comebacks, dazzling smiles and a promise to make up for their lack of mental dexterity with a stable of advisors unmatched in the annals of history. Reference the McCain-Palin ticket for more information.

Give me someone who can effectively rub two brain cells together.

I just can't understand the mindset that would use "educated" as an insult. It's totally incomprehensible to me.

 

[Sonny Limatina]

I just can't understand the mindset that would use "educated" as an insult. It's totally incomprehensible to me.

We're a production society. "Education" smacks of laziness and elitism.

 

[firespin]

In other words, everything you're saying is correct and logical, but the facts are logic are irrelevent. (Firespin's going to make my saying that his signature.) People need behavioral incentives, and short-term hand-outs are one kind that does seem to work.

Nice helpful suggestion on the siggie thing. Thanks!

Department stores tried to compete with discounters by holding period sales to incentivize people to buy, and it did get people to buy. Only problem was, the sale prices were unsustainable on an ongoing basis due to high overhead, but customers stopped paying full price, since they knew they could just wait for a sale. (Similar comments apply to new car sales with rebates.)

With that sort of business management thinking, any wonder why "traditional" department stores are going the way of the dinosaurs now?

 

[Sonny Limatina]

Nice helpful suggestion on the siggie thing. Thanks!

Department stores tried to compete with discounters by holding period sales to incentivize people to buy, and it did get people to buy. Only problem was, the sale prices were unsustainable on an ongoing basis due to high overhead, but customers stopped paying full price, since they knew they could just wait for a sale. (Similar comments apply to new car sales with rebates.)

With that sort of business management thinking, any wonder why "traditional" department stores are going the way of the dinosaurs now?

This isn't entirely true. Periodic (meaning, regular) sales do not work, because people do hold off for the sales. But most every retailer learned this in Business 101, and therefore you do not see any serious business holding storewide "Friday" sales.

 

[RobDownSouth]

It's something I've never understood about the American political discourse. Over here we quite like our leaders to be clever.

Blame Reagan. He began the trend towards amiable, incurious dunces (see also Bush, George W., and Palin, Sarah) as nominal leaders of the Republican party.

 

[Sean]

We're a production society. "Education" smacks of laziness and elitism.

You, like us, are becoming less and less a production society. When you can't compete on production costs with the likes of China, the only thing you can do is move more of your economy into the high tech tertiary sector. And that takes an educated workforce.

 

[Sonny Limatina]

You, like us, are becoming less and less a production society. When you can't compete on production costs with the likes of China, the only thing you can do is move more of your economy into the high tech tertiary sector. And that takes an educated workforce.

Of course. But the American character is one that values craftsmen, not artisans. Even if we no longer produce a thing, we still measure success on quantifiable output of some kind.

 

[islandman]

I just can't understand the mindset that would use "educated" as an insult. It's totally incomprehensible to me.

Case in point, the U.S. Senate Committee on Finance currently has 23 members. I've gone through the bios of about half and have found only two to have any formal training in economics.

It could be that the remaining members I've yet to check all have econ or related degrees; I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[firespin]

What happens when your politicians substitute gray matter for common sense:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/greenhouse/post/2010/04/too-much-nine-bin-recycling-system-is-introduced/1

"How many recycling bins could you manage? To boost recycling rates, a town in the United Kingdom has introduced a nine-bin system that has sparked public dismay, according to a story in the Telegraph.

The British newspaper says households in Newcastle-under-Lyme Council, north Staffordshire, now face fines unless they separate waste in a color-coded way.

This is how it works: food waste goes in a silver slop bucket, plastic bottles in a pink bag, glass in a blue box, cardboard in a green bag, paper and magazines in blue bags, clothing and textiles in a white bag, garden waste in a wheelie bin with a brown lid and non-recyclable waste in a separate grey wheelie bin."

So you were saying?

 

[firespin]

Case in point, the U.S. Senate Committee on Finance currently has 23 members. I've gone through the bios of about half and have found only two to have any formal training in economics.

It could be that the remaining members I've yet to check all have econ or related degrees; I wouldn't bet on it.

Our congressman are a diverse lot in some ways (of course 57% of Senators are lawyers...)

"Many members have other professions: There are three carpenters, two bank tellers, a driving instructor, a cosmetics saleswoman, a mountain guide, a ski instructor; a casino dealer, a night watchman, a prison guard, a furniture salesman, an ironworker (Rep. Stephen Lynch), an autoworker, a clothing factory worker, a textile worker, an oilfield worker, a mortician, a coroner, a waitress (Rep. Shelley Berkley), a Teamster and dairy worker, a paper mill worker (Rep. Mike Michaud), a cement plant worker (Rep. Maurice Hinchey), a meat cutter (sen. Robert Byrd), a shellfish specialist (Rep. Rob Wittman), a tugboat captain (Rep. Don Young), a taxicab driver, an auctioneer, a toll booth collector, and a hotel clerk."

 

[Sean]

What happens when your politicians substitute gray matter for common sense:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/greenhouse/post/2010/04/too-much-nine-bin-recycling-system-is-introduced/1

"How many recycling bins could you manage? To boost recycling rates, a town in the United Kingdom has introduced a nine-bin system that has sparked public dismay, according to a story in the Telegraph.

The British newspaper says households in Newcastle-under-Lyme Council, north Staffordshire, now face fines unless they separate waste in a color-coded way.

This is how it works: food waste goes in a silver slop bucket, plastic bottles in a pink bag, glass in a blue box, cardboard in a green bag, paper and magazines in blue bags, clothing and textiles in a white bag, garden waste in a wheelie bin with a brown lid and non-recyclable waste in a separate grey wheelie bin."

So you were saying?

That's what happens when you privatise council services.

 

[firespin]

That's what happens when you privatise council services.

So you think the local government didn't come up with this?

 

[islandman]

Our congressman are a diverse lot in some ways (of course 57% of Senators are lawyers...)

"Many members have other professions: There are three carpenters, two bank tellers, a driving instructor, a cosmetics saleswoman, a mountain guide, a ski instructor; a casino dealer, a night watchman, a prison guard, a furniture salesman, an ironworker (Rep. Stephen Lynch), an autoworker, a clothing factory worker, a textile worker, an oilfield worker, a mortician, a coroner, a waitress (Rep. Shelley Berkley), a Teamster and dairy worker, a paper mill worker (Rep. Mike Michaud), a cement plant worker (Rep. Maurice Hinchey), a meat cutter (sen. Robert Byrd), a shellfish specialist (Rep. Rob Wittman), a tugboat captain (Rep. Don Young), a taxicab driver, an auctioneer, a toll booth collector, and a hotel clerk."

Diverse backgrounds are great, it makes for better dialogue. I'm more concerned with how our congressman approach what's in the foreground.

 

[Sean]

So you think the local government didn't come up with this?

Refuse services are subject to compulsory competitive tendering. In other words, it goes to the lowest bidder. I suspect the company are trying to save money at the sorting end of their operation.