On writing: backstory

[anthrodisiac]

You have to decide, the car is resting on your decision.

Scene setting. It's not even close to info dump territory. It's very literally scene setting, getting the ambience of the scene and setting.

Did I save the car from being sent into The Pit? God, I wish this game show just gave away cars, instead of threatening to hurl them into oblivion if I get the answer wrong

 

[ElectricBlue]

Info dump, or scene setting:

I'd call that scene setting, because it's clearly to do with the story that's underway. Possibly a bit excessive for my taste, but then you are illustrating a point.

It would be an info-dump if it went all blah blah blah about the ancient house and how long it had been there, and the twelve generations preceding Mrs Snatcherd.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Possibly a bit excessive for my taste, but then you are illustrating a point.

A lot will happen in the space and some details are relevant to things revealed to have happened later.

 

[EmilyMiller]

It would be an info-dump if it went all blah blah blah about the ancient house and how long it had been there, and the twelve generations preceding Mrs Snatcherd

It’s also about giving hints as to the - currently absent - owner’s character. Which I think I did successfully

 

[anthrodisiac]

A lot will happen in the space and some details are relevant to things revealed to have happened later.

Clusters of bubble lamps

Ah yes, the infamous Chekov's Bubble Lamps.

 

[Britva415]

Unless it is consciously and beautifully calling attention to itself. A mini-essay expositing(is that a word???) the back story, or the setting, or people's looks.

I think this point was made by someone up thread. @EmilyMiller???, @anthrodisiac??

I consider that getting a totally different job done, not the job I was talking about.

 

[Britva415]

The difference between infodumping and scene setting is the same as the difference between information and atmosphere.

Especially when the info contained in the dump is actual plot-critical information.

If the info contained in the dump is not plot-critical information, then maybe it is just atmosphere. Maybe it's not even atmosphere

 

[EmilyMiller]

Ah yes, the infamous Chekov's Bubble Lamps.

I suggested he call his gizmo that, but would he listen? Russians, eh?

 

[StillStunned]

The new game show: Info Dump or Scene Setting!

Ooo, I'll play!

Allie considered herself a professional.

Massage therapist was in fact her second career. Three years ago, she'd turned her life upside down. She'd parted ways with her husband. She'd sold out of her partnership in what had once been a solicitors firm but now was called a "boutique legal services consultancy." She decided to travel the world.

Of these three changes, her divorce had the least impact. She and Ben had barely interacted for years by then.

Alone in the Far East, she'd spent time discovering herself. Her likes and her dislikes, her wants and her needs. She was, she felt, too mature for dreams and ambitions.

Massage was something she'd stumbled into. A group therapy session at a yoga retreat. She'd liked the feeling of another person's skin under her fingers. Moulding it like clay. The satisfaction of soothing body and spirit, and the pleasant tiredness in her own body after.

And so she'd travelled and studied. Thailand and Vietnam. Japan. A cold month in Vladivostok, learning about birch rods and nettles from a short man with large hands called Dmitri. India next, and Sri Lanka. Kenya, to study rhythmic pounding and chanting, and Timbuktu just because she'd always wanted to visit. A long period in Colombia, where she'd been introduced to some strange herbs and the delights of uninhibited group sex. Lastly, she'd gone to LA, where a guru claimed to understand the ultimate massage techniques, but in fact mostly wanted to grope naked bodies.

She'd returned home, found a flat, adopted a cat and looked for a job. It didn't take long. Hester was looking for a new therapist for her salon, and was impressed by Allie's long résumé. She was also happy to have a more mature therapist. "The girls these days," she confided to Allie as they were signing her contract, "they're too flighty. No sense of responsibility. Half of them are looking for a rich husband, the other half are only doing this until they become TikTok famous."

Now Allie's first week was almost done. She got on well with her colleagues. Hester was happy. Her clients were happy. Allie was happy too, she realised, for the first time perhaps in her entire adult life.

Yes, Allie considered herself a professional. So when Mrs Lidham, lying on her back with towels covering her face, breasts and waist, had taken Allie's hand and guided it beneath the towel, Allie had smoothly pulled her hand away and murmured, "I'm so sorry. We don't provide that service."

It's quite dumpy, and I think its only saving grace is that massages will pique the reader's interest, together with the few references to sex. But if I rewrote the story, I don't think I'd change much.

 

[Stanfield2025]

The new game show: Info Dump or Scene Setting!

"Ma'am, we need a better title than that."

Here's my segment. Infodump or scene setting?
_________
The queen woke up to find her husband gone.

The thin rays of sunlight made its way through the window and into the sleeping chambers. Dust floated inside the royal bedroom. Snug in her smooth sleeping gown Castra Junaki faced the spot in which her husband, the king, should have been. Yet she found herself alone in the bed. Again.

She sniffed, trying not to sneeze. Perhaps Fugo was indisposed. Maybe he had gone to the restroom. But somehow, someway, she knew he had been gone almost the entire night. He had laid with her as she went to sleep but he must have left long before the morning sun rose. She pushed it from her mind, not wanting to figure it out.

Castra got out of bed and walked to the chair by her window. She sat by the silken curtain and let her ears wander. The birds chirped outside. The commoners sold their wares, their yells sailing up through the window. A dog bark sounded in the distance. The island city of Brakar began to wake up. The wheels of chariots rolled on the stone. More dogs joined the chorus. Roosters crowed. A thought came to Castra and she stood. Moving aside the light pink curtain the queen looked out above the buildings and dwellings beneath her castle. People trickled into the streets to start the day. Some of them pushed their carts over the cobblestone, calling out for anyone wanting to buy arms and armor. The familiar smell of spices blew in on a warm breeze. But Castra didn’t focus on any of the activities of her kingdom below.

Her eyes found the mountain. The Mountain of the Fire Demon.

It remained silent, but loomed as always. The roused streets had been easy to get used to, but not so the omnipresent volcano. The special baptism had been fulfilled, and it was the middle of the moon’s turn. All that was left was for Fugo to perform the Fire Canticle. Every moon she would tell the king to perform a chant at the top of the mountain. With his voice he would keep the demon inside from waking. They still had time before the next moon to gather the priests and priestesses to perform it.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Ooo, I'll play!

It's quite dumpy, and I think its only saving grace is that massages will pique the reader's interest, together with the few references to sex. But if I rewrote the story, I don't think I'd change much.

Definitely an info-dump. I read intros like this and think, am I meant to care or remember any of this?

 

[StillStunned]

Definitely an info-dump. I read intros like this and think, am I meant to care or remember any of this?

It's quite possibly the reason why the story in question has by far one of my worst view-to-vote ratios.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Ooo, I'll play!

It's quite dumpy, and I think its only saving grace is that massages will pique the reader's interest, together with the few references to sex. But if I rewrote the story, I don't think I'd change much.

Dump. So much of this could be dumped or peppered throughout later. Almost none of it is pertinent to the actual scene starting. It might be important to the story, but spreading it out avoids the slog of information that, like EB noted, I'm 100% going to forget within about five seconds.

It's quite possibly the reason why the story in question has by far one of my worst view-to-vote ratios.

It might have contributed to that, quite possibly, yeah.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Here's my segment. Infodump or scene setting?
_________
The queen woke up to find her husband gone.

The thin rays of sunlight made its way through the window and into the sleeping chambers. Dust floated inside the royal bedroom. Snug in her smooth sleeping gown Castra Junaki faced the spot in which her husband, the king, should have been. Yet she found herself alone in the bed. Again.

She sniffed, trying not to sneeze. Perhaps Fugo was indisposed. Maybe he had gone to the restroom. But somehow, someway, she knew he had been gone almost the entire night. He had laid with her as she went to sleep but he must have left long before the morning sun rose. She pushed it from her mind, not wanting to figure it out.

Castra got out of bed and walked to the chair by her window. She sat by the silken curtain and let her ears wander. The birds chirped outside. The commoners sold their wares, their yells sailing up through the window. A dog bark sounded in the distance. The island city of Brakar began to wake up. The wheels of chariots rolled on the stone. More dogs joined the chorus. Roosters crowed. A thought came to Castra and she stood. Moving aside the light pink curtain the queen looked out above the buildings and dwellings beneath her castle. People trickled into the streets to start the day. Some of them pushed their carts over the cobblestone, calling out for anyone wanting to buy arms and armor. The familiar smell of spices blew in on a warm breeze. But Castra didn’t focus on any of the activities of her kingdom below.

Her eyes found the mountain. The Mountain of the Fire Demon.

It remained silent, but loomed as always. The roused streets had been easy to get used to, but not so the omnipresent volcano. The special baptism had been fulfilled, and it was the middle of the moon’s turn. All that was left was for Fugo to perform the Fire Canticle. Every moon she would tell the king to perform a chant at the top of the mountain. With his voice he would keep the demon inside from waking. They still had time before the next moon to gather the priests and priestesses to perform it.

Scene setting for sure. Nothing dumpy about it. In fact, this is quite deftly handled, bringing some loric elements into play, but mentioning that the king had to do it, except for the fact that the king might be missing, so this is actually really nice foreshadowing (potentially), and hinting at what dangers could lurk should they not find the king. Granted, that's all contigent on the king actually being missing, but this is actually quite restrained for a fantasy-style story. I like it.

 

[Stanfield2025]

Scene setting for sure. Nothing dumpy about it. In fact, this is quite deftly handled, bringing some loric elements into play, but mentioning that the king had to do it, except for the fact that the king might be missing, so this is actually really nice foreshadowing (potentially), and hinting at what dangers could lurk should they not find the king. Granted, that's all contigent on the king actually being missing, but this is actually quite restrained for a fantasy-style story. I like it.

Thank you. This gives me some nice perspective on what it feels like to lean in the scene-setting direction. Sometimes I'm unsure.

 

[StillStunned]

Dump. So much of this could be dumped or peppered throughout later. Almost none of it is pertinent to the actual scene starting. It might be important to the story, but spreading it out avoids the slog of information that, like EB noted, I'm 100% going to forget within about five seconds.

In the story's defence, the point is to paint a picture of who Allie is, and what place her mind is in during the rest of the story. It's not the details, but the big picture. It sets up the conflict between what she wants to do and how she sees herself.

It's not my best story, but I think its rating of 4.57/174 is about right.

 

[crookedletter]

I read intros like this and think, am I meant to care or remember any of this?

This is the key question I think, for all of this. Readers need a reason to care about what they're reading.

Usually, that reason is character. They've gotten to know the character(s) a little bit, enough to be interested in who they are, where they came from. Once the reader is invested, and if the info you're dumping is relevant and engaging and adds dimension to the character they're interested in, you've bought some reader patience maybe to take a step back and do your dumping, if and when it's necessary.

That's generally an argument against starting with the info dump. But like anything else I wouldn't say that's a hard and fast rule. But if you're going to start with the dump then you have to buy that interest and that patience with something: whether it's character or world building or just a really compellingly written info dump.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

It really depends on the story.

One approach I've taken is to include snippets of backstory only at whatever point in the story it becomes relevant. Things like:

Being with Keith was nothing like when I'd been married to Chazz. Chazz had been selfish and forceful, but Keith was kind, caring, and attentive. Still, I reminded myself, Chazz had started out that way too. How could I be sure Keith wouldn't go the same way?

Or:

Sheila thought back to the time she'd spent in Europe. She'd been young and idealistic then, believing she had a solid understanding of the world, but still so unsure of herself. Since then, of course, she'd learned what it meant to truly be herself, yet become disillusioned with the naive view she'd had back then of our infinitely complex world.

I've sometimes even started out by actually writing the bad kind of infodump, then kind of just using the raw infodump as the story bible, extracting bits of it and rewording them into that kind of relevant snippet as I work on the actual story. Often, I'll have covered pretty much everything important from the infodump after the first couple thousand words. Even more crucial, I'll often realize that anything there that HASN'T made it in is more the sort of background detail an author (me) establishes and keeps in mind as a way of giving characters that authentic feel without ever actually including in the final product.

Another approach is for when the backstory is really more of an integral part of the story itself. In that case, you can mess with time a little, starting a scene and then going back. The first story I posted on here begins with one character hearing the other character's key in the lock and, knowing it means a date had gone poorly, thinks back on previous visits. It starts with a detailed description of the first time she'd shown up after a bad date, then gives a brief summary of subsequent visits mentioning how he'd eventually made her a copy of his key, and finally catches back up to the present. The story as written is TECHNICALLY only one scene that takes place in a single night, except the first two-thirds of a page (in Lit's standard format) is an extended flashback spanning a year and a half.

Could that be called an infodump? Probably, but I think framing it as a memory he's having, especially after establishing the setting and giving a bit of a taste of what's to come, helps keep a reader's interest. It sets up some mystery about both the past ("Why is he so concerned about her?") and the present ("What will happen when she comes in?"), then resolves the mystery about the past, then tells the story of the present. (Add to that the fact that the backstory itself is all about how her bad dates seem to happen for a consistent reason to which he's never been privy, and you have a mystery extending all the way through to the point where revealing the answer kicks off the spicy scenes.)

Those are my general ways to go about it, anyway.

 

[CalBishForNow]

Here's my segment. Infodump or scene setting?

Here's my attempt, the intro to that WIP I mentioned:

Harley Harrison was going on a trip to an exclusive convention in Paris, and she hated it.

She would have loved it if she could have brought friends, but she couldn’t. She appreciated having actual alcohol without being sneaky about it. She had turned 18 last October and her parents, Sarah and Tom, still treated her like a child most of the time. And she didn’t even mind the destination. The main event was the Hôtel Élégante Convention on Sexual Reality and Fantasies, what they were calling LitCon, and she had looked forward to something wild.

Had looked forward to it, that is, until Miranda made it clear that Sarah and Tom would be there too. That was why Harley hated it. What could be worse than going to a sex fantasy convention with mom and dad?

The tickets, hotel, and convention passes were gifts with strings openly attached. Miranda didn’t like the word “witch,” she could go on and on about stereotypes or archetypes or phenotypes or something like that, but Harley and Sarah had been learning a lot from her in recent months that felt a lot like witchcraft.

This was the next lesson, and it wasn’t optional. Tom was invited at Sarah’s discretion. Harley didn’t get any discretion. She’d go to Paris and the convention with her parents, and stay in the same room – okay, suite – as them every night, or else.

Harley skipped the meet-and-greet Friday night. She really was jet-lagged. Her father said he wanted to go, but he lay down for a quick rest around 7 PM and was out for hours. Her mother glared at both of them but didn’t force Harley to accompany her downstairs.

Saturday morning, Harley couldn’t get out of it any longer. They had a light breakfast at the hotel’s balcony café. Birds were singing, the din of traffic from the Paris morning wafted up to the balcony muffled only somewhat by trees, the sun shone on dew-covered roofs of centuries-old buildings across the avenue, people walked between tables dressed for everything from Disneyland Paris to a dungeon, and Harley tried to ignore it all.

Sarah sipped the last of her coffee and flipped back and forth through the brochure, eyeing the many options for events and workshops. Tom tried to listen to her but kept getting distracted by convention-goers. Harley texted her friend Ashley back home.

That excerpt is 398 words, down by more than 200 from what it was like two days ago.

This discussion seems to mostly be focused on introductions to stories, but of course you can have infodumps anywhere. I can think of some sci-fi/fantasy authors who'd take multiple-page pauses in the action in between one battle and the next to exposit about the ruling dynasty's history or something.

 

[StillStunned]

This discussion seems to mostly be focused on introductions to stories, but of course you can have infodumps anywhere. I can think of some sci-fi/fantasy authors who'd take multiple-page pauses in the action in between one battle and the next to exposit about the ruling dynasty's history or something.

Yes, I hate that.

There's an ebb and flow to stories. If you've just had a high-stakes scene full of excitement, you need something gentle to pick up the story again. That's the perfect moment to provide background. The reader's still engaged enough from the previous scene, and the slower pace of exposition lets them catch their breath before the tension ramps up again.

 

[Britva415]

Ooo, I'll play!

It's quite dumpy, and I think its only saving grace is that massages will pique the reader's interest, together with the few references to sex. But if I rewrote the story, I don't think I'd change much.

Thanks for providing this example. Is this the first section of a story? If so, this is an example of "not scene setting." We can recognize this as characterization, but there isn't a scene being set - until the very last line.

Not trying to pick on your sample. I hope you don't mind me using it as a case study in what could have been done differently. Better? I leave it to the various members of the AH to judge for themselves and share their reactions.

The ninth paragraph (the last one in your snippet) introduces/commences a scene. The previous eight paragraphs don't set that scene. We can say they set it up, but they don't set it.

What I mean by "set it up" is when the scene commences, there is some backstory to why the conflict arises. Though, that ninth paragraph all by itself doesn't need any of the previous eight just to make the conflict clear. They could be totally absent and the story could still launch directly off of that ninth paragraph if it were the first. There's nothing surprising or unexpected about the conflict, it absolutely could just be presented without any of that setup.

What I mean by "don't set the scene" is, the scene is a specific act of massage being performed on a specific person at a specific time in a specific place. None of the infodump conveys any of that information, they don't even convey the conflict that's to come, so, the scene isn't set at all until paragraph nine. The previous eight paragraphs don't set the scene and they aren't required for the conflict to be understood when it is introduced.

So, that's what I mean when I refer to "scene setting" and "setting up the scene" as a distinct matter.

So, what could be done differently? I'm not saying "don't ever include any of that backstory." I like the idea of revealing it after the conflict is shown. Maybe at the same time. Show/tell that there's something happening now which this and that particular point of backstory are salient to. Reveal that and the other point of backstory similarly: While telling the story.

Another idea is, instead of spamming hads, one could start the storytelling "three years ago" - only, without saying "three years ago." Just tell the story. There is a story there, in the backstory. If it's important, compelling, interesting, worth telling as a story on its own, then, now we have something which serves as the beginning of the story rather than as an infodump. Something which can foreshadow the upcoming conflict. Something which can elicit sympathy for the MC by showing the events as they happen, and the experiences and motivations and feelings she has as they happen, instead of neutering that story into a perfunctory re-cap that turns out not to even be necessary.

Nice-to-have? Maybe. Necessary? Not in this format, if at all. I haven't read the rest of the story, so, I don't know whether any of the info in the dump ever becomes relevant or necessary later, but, as we've seen, there are other ways to present it, and other times at which it can be presented, if the info is critical. Even if it's necessary to leak/ dangle/ foreshadow a detail before the plot calls upon it, it can still be done in a telling-the-present-story way instead of a get-infodump-out-of-the-way way.

Those are my thoughts. I welcome yours and others'. Thanks for letting me use your work as a demo.

 

[StillStunned]

Thanks for letting me use your work as a demo.

I'd be a pretty poor sport if I posted it here and then complained about people discussing it. Although I realise I'm getting quite defensive about it, grumble grumble. I'm in a writing flow at the moment, so I won't respond in detail to your post just now, but I appreciate your thoughts.

That said, if anyone wants to see how it works within the context of the story, this is the link: The Code ("A massage therapist struggles to behave professionally.")

 

[EmilyMiller]

Info dump or scene setting 2 (I’ve shared this before):

—

"I can't relate to desperation
My give-a-fucks are on vacation
And I got this one boy, and he won't stop callin'
When they act this way, I know I got 'em"​

Sabrina chirpily fills my ears with her Sun-drenched vocals as I compose my bio. Sure, if you look like her, the boys probably wouldn't ever stop calling. For us regular girls...? Not so much. Indeed pretty much never. But, I'd run out of fucks to give as well, hence my current form-filling.

I put the song on loop...

Age: I toy with the idea of pretending to be a teen. With my looks, I could probably get away with that. But no, honesty is the best policy, twenty-two it is.

Status: Single... d'oh! Then I reflect that quite a few members are probably seeking extramarital fun. But would they admit that in their profile? I decide I'm not really qualified to opine on this matter and move on.

Height: I type a wistful 5'4" knowing it's not true, but thinking that no one will bring a measuring tape with them.

Weight: Why is this important? Do some guys have a fetish for a certain number of pounds? Let's say one hundred.

Then I think, 5'4" and one hundred pounds sounds kinda anorexic. My conscience gets the better of me and I knock three inches off of the earlier field.

If a miracle occurs and I actually meet anyone as a result of this, they are most likely gonna be deeply disappointed in me anyway. So let's not give them one more reason to be so.

Build: Isn't that fucking obvious? I select 'Skinny' from the drop down.

Eye color: There's nothing that matches my weird combo, so let's say 'Blue.'

Hair color / length: Hmm... I guess that 'Blonde' is closer than 'Light brown.' Length? Do they want the number of inches? It's kinda between mid-length and long. I pick 'Mid-length.'

Bust size: I first enter 32B, then change the B to A. I'm going to be posting photos of myself as well, might as well be consistent with the images.

Pussy: I pick 'Shaved,' it's close enough.

Tattoos: None.

Piercings: Ears and belly.

Highest level of education: Seriously? I assume the form has been customized from a more generic one. No one on this site is gonna give a fuck about my Computer Science degree. Still, I select that option.

Hobbies: I consider writing: 'failing to attract any male attention at any of work, bars, or regular dating sites.' Then I reflect that this isn't exactly a great sales pitch. Instead I enter 'running and art house movies.' Why anyone viewing my details would care is beyond me.

Preferred role: There is no option for 'trying to figure that shit out,' so I go for 'Submissive.'

Next there is a lengthy section consisting of a series of expandable categories. An explanatory paragraph says that there is no need to fill everything in, just to complete any answers that you feel will help to match to like-minded people.

I click on Number / gender of partners: and get a list starting at One. Out of curiosity, I scroll down. It stops at Ten. I have an involuntary image of a red raw vagina flit across my mind. Shuddering a little, I scroll back up and pick 'Two.' A pop-up asks me to specify the gender of each, and I check the 'Male' box for both.

This is after all my key selling point, that I want to fuck with two guys. I hope it helps me stand out, but suspect it won't really compensate for my other many deficiencies.

I click on the next section, covering sexual acts. Each row has three checkboxes: Love:, Try:, and Avoid:. I click on the first box for 'Vaginal (receiving)' 'Cunnilingus (receiving),' and 'Fellatio (giving),' and the second for 'Deep Throat (receiving),' 'Face-fuck (receiving),' 'Anal (receiving)' and 'Spanking (receiving).' I figure that's more than enough for now, I can add things later if I so choose.

After this section comes a free text box in which you can enter whatever you like. More about yourself, about what you want, anything really. It's optional and I'm not so sure what to say. I consider leaving it blank, then type some words, almost on autopilot:

I want to be used by two men like the filthy slut I am

Did I just write that? What the fuck is wrong with me? I think about deleting it, but I know it's true. I take a breath, press 'Save,' and move on.

 

[Britva415]

"Not scene setting" for the same reasons I described before There isn't a scene.

 

[StillStunned]

"Not scene setting" for the same reasons I described before There isn't a scene.

I've given it some thought (I was writing, damn you!), and I've come to the conclusion that there *is* a scene. But it's inside the narrator's head. This kind of introduction sets out their frame of mind, how they see themselves, what the reader may expect going forward. And it probably says, "This story will involve a lot of introspection."