Opinions..

[IA951]

well-founded

you are in that fustration Risiaskye.

We pay a lot of lip service to idea of respecting teachers and what they do.
We pay an equal amount to the idea that our children's futures are important.
Seems sometimes that we are willing to sell them downriver for whatever is cheapest and easiest now.

Teachers are asked to do a lot and attacked and belittled when do they don't deliver.

 

[lilminx]

After reading this thread I have a few things to say:

1. Lavender, I think I love you.

2. Rubyfruit, I believe in one of your posts here, you said that teachers get paid for summer training. While that may be the case where you live, it is not the case in NYC. We are required to get extra new teacher credits. Mind you, it isn't a bad idea, but it is on our own time, and often, we have to pay out of our own pocket for these workshops. Additionally, we are required to get a Master's degree and get no salary reimbursement for it.

True- we get summers and vacations off, but many teachers need to spend their summers working just to supplement their measly income. I also know that I, as a special ed teacher, have a shitload of extra work to do, and my salary is equal to that of a general education teacher. I spend extra time at work, coming in early and often staying late, just to get the work done. Much of it cannot or should not be brought home because it contains personal information on each child.

If teachers don't strike over soemthing that some people may see as a minor hike in insurance, then they will be taken advantage of again and again. Often, we have to stand our ground because if we give an inch, they'll take a mile.

3. To get back to the original topic: FG, I really have no idea what you should do about this situation. While I think it is important for your child to get an education, I know that often if a substitute teacher teaches the class, the children will not be doing the same things in class as what their regular teacher instructed them in. I also think that children need to be shown that teachers are supported by their community.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Frustrated, very frustrated....

Everyone's insurance premium is going up, including Medicare and the elderly are the LEAST able to pay but can THEY strike? No. I do not hear anyone screeching about the elderlys predicament.

I do. They're called the AARP, and they're the largest, best funded, most active group advocacy lobby on Capitol Hill. I watch C-Span (usually while I grade quizzes, heh) and catch the debates pretty frequently. I hear plenty of elderly representation--hell, half of congress is ON Medicare. But I digress.

A teacher is special. But teachers are not the only ones having to fork out more money right now. When does it become time to be thankful that you even have a job and insurance? $15.00 is NOT worth it.

When does it become time to demand that health care providers, employers, and the state bureacrats stops skimming off the top and driving everyone's costs up to support huge insurance companies?

When are we, as the ones who pay for it, allowed to decide how much we're willing to be exploited? It becomes time to be thankful "just to have the job" when there aren't a wide variety of other jobs out there you could be doing for more money and more respect. That's just a fact--the vast majority of teachers would make far more in the private sector, yet we get treated as baby-sitters by those working for business and industry firms.

I don't want to disrupt students' lives, and when we went on strike, we did everything we could to make the transition efficient. But, I bring my ethics with me to school; I don't sacrifice them "for the children." The fact that I don't compromise them is what makes me a dedicated teacher, and it's the same fact that makes it impossible for me to cross a picket line. I don't know if that's "right" or "wrong" in anyone else's worldview--I know that I support worker coalitions, and I strive to be consistent in following my principles. So, I guess the question is, am I the kind of teacher you want? Or, am I exactly what I constantly hear when teachers gets blamed (again) for education's problems--a bleeding heart liberal corrupting the minds of America's young with inappropriate, even dangerous, politics?

 

[RisiaSkye]

Big feh. Forgot to sign in again.

In case you couldn't guess, the longwinded rant above was me.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Re: Re: Frustrated, very frustrated....

A teacher is special. But teachers are not the only ones having to fork out more money right now. When does it become time to be thankful that you even have a job and insurance? $15.00 is NOT worth it.

So, what you're saying, is that because other people struggle to pay insurance, or go without, that the teachers should just let an increase be forced upon them without protest? Life in America isn't about everything being fair. I feel for the elderly on assistance, but how does compassion for them translate into doing nothing to better my own situation? The point isn't that the increase is only $15, it's that it's there at all. I'm guessing that their salary won't receive a comparable increase.

I pay about 1/3 of my income for health insurance. If that was raised, I'd be pissed off, but ultimately there would be nothing I could do about it. I'd love to be able to say "know what? fuck you, make this work for me."

 

[Angelus]

Okay.... the teachers are going to go on strike because their health insurance is going up?

Pay them more!

They have the worst paid job in the world and they are expected to put up with all the crap they have to put up with for the shit money they get and then they have to pay more in health insurance. That is the nastiest thing I have ever heard in my life... pay the poor teachers more, that is all I can say.

 

[Lost Cause]

I'm always amused that teachers demonstrate to their pupils that if things don't go your way, you quit doing what your suppose to do! You said getting behind the rest of the class, are they crossing the lines? Are you members of the teachers union? If not, you are not obligated to honor the line. You have paid for services to be provided by the school, you have done your part. The problem with the whining teachers is between the union leadership, and the funding legislators.
When I witness this labor debate, it reminds me of a custody battle between parents, using the children as pawns in their infighting!
Explain to your kids what the debate is about, but refuse to let them be exploited by the teacher's union.

 

[MidnightAngel]

In answer to the original question:

When I was in high school, our teachers went on strike. They were out for over 3 months; it was a mess. The school system provided "substitute" teachers at off-site locations (churches, union hall, etc), but you had to get your children to these locations. Very few people within the district sent their children to these "classes". When the strike was over, we (the students) ended up losing all of our days off, such as spring break, etc. plus they discussed the possibility of making us continue thru the summer months to make up lost days. (That didn't happen). My parents did not send me during the strike. As a mother of a high school student, I wouldn't send my son.

In answer to the debate: The teachers in our school district make (in my opinion) very good salaries. My current health insurance costs $225 a month, and it is terrible (It's for federal government employees.....so that figures).

 

[PowerOfOne]

Re: Re: Re: Frustrated, very frustrated....

Originally posted by Unregistered

"I do. They're called the AARP, and they're the largest, best funded, most active group advocacy lobby on Capitol Hill. I watch C-Span (usually while I grade quizzes, heh) and catch the debates pretty frequently. I hear plenty of elderly representation--hell, half of congress is ON Medicare. But I digress."

The elderly do have AARP and they are lobbying for better medicare benefits but there is no one to strike and so far the group has been able to do nothing about the increased costs of medicare.

Its like this. Let's say those group of teachers get what they want and the school system pays the extra $15.00 per teacher for insurance per month. The school system has to get that money from somewhere so up go the taxes and not just $15.00 extra, more like double that. So the teachers as well as the rest of us are NOT coming out ahead. Only the insurance companies get richer, not the teachers and not the general population.

So can we all strike against the insurance companies? We could but they would just cancel our insurance and the sick would remain sick and some would die. They have us over a barral no matter which way you look at it. You either pay the $15.00 now or the $30.00+ later in taxes. No one is the winner but the insurance company.

 

[freakygirl]

I guess I didn't really make myself clear in the original post.

My husband is a union member (He is a Correctional Officer.. employed by the State of Washington at a major Correctional facility here).. don't ALL unions respect each other anymore? Someone asked if I was a member of the teachers union. No i'm not.. but I think we should respect their fight. Even if someone doesn't agree with what they are fighting for.. shouldn't all unions stand together?

My children are way advanced in their classes.. all three of them are pulling 4.0 gpa's. Missing school isn't going to "hurt" them... but they will lose their spring break and possibly summer (depending on how long this strike lasts). IF THEY DON'T BRING IN SUBS (they are still debating this fact). My daughter has been picked up for a major tournement softball team.. it's in preperation for college. (the scouts from major colleges are starting to look for girls with futures in softball). My daughter has a chance at receiving a full scholarship to college. She is 12 and pitching 80mph balls. Having them in school for the summer could ruin her chances at this scholarship. She can't miss school for softball.. and she can't afford to miss softball for school.

I should have said all this last night.. maybe it would have helped.. I guess I just wasn't thinking when I originaly posted.

So.. to rephrase my question.. Should someone who is active in a union.. send their children to cross picket lines of another unions fight for selfish reasons like a scholarship?

 

[MacCortz]

Ok.. here is the thing

My childrens teachers are going on strike as of Monday. The deal is.. they are mad because their portion of the medical expense every month is going from $22.50 to $35.00. They don't feel it's fair that they have to pay this.

My question is.. do we send them to school to cross the picket lines? (both my husband and my ex husband are union members) or do we jeopardize some of their education by keeping them home? (jeopardizing by them getting behind the rest of their class)

My ex husband, his wife, my husband and I are discussing this right now..

any opinions?

My wife taught school for 20 years and we have other teachers on both sides of the family. I was a Labor Management Relations specialist work for the federal government a long time ago. This background is envolved in my opinions.

1. Teachers in the US are generally poorly paid and receive little respect in their proffesion.
2. School Districts have long managed teachers and voter by black mail tactics ie if the voters don't vote more money we will have to cancel band, speach.... and fire all new teachers.
3. Many states have systems like in Washington state where they pay teachers on one salery scale through out the state. Teachers in Seattle struggle to survie while teachers in rural areas of the state are quite well to do.
4. In my opinion the school districts have mislead parents and voters and teachers so frequently that they have no credability.
5. Review the employment level of administrators in your schools. I think that you will probably find there numbers have increase dramaticly when compared to teacher and student increases.
6. Learn to get to know the teachers in your childrens school. Find the good ones from talking to other parents, students and teachers and request that your kids be put in to these better teachers classes.
7. Look to see if teachers in your community are being paid a reasonable wage... and try to evaluate the need for the cost increase for health benifits....
8. Rather than continue rambling, I would urg you to support your teachers on this issue. Further get active in you schools and work to get good teachers for your kids and activly support them.
9. Try to get the local newspaper of TV news to take a look at how money is spent in your school distrct now vrs 10 & 20 years ago. Try to get a "identify waste of all kinds" program in the school and see if money can't be saved else where.
10. Keep the kids home or better yet make them signs and all of you go march with the teachers.

we are the solution we are the future

 

[Lord Emu]

It would depend on how old my children were to detrmine if i would keep them home or not. If they were small I would try to find a tutor because I would not want them exposed to such a thing so early and I don't want ot chance them getting hurt. I doubt teachers would do anything but there are a lot of crazy fanatics out there. If they were older I would send them because I wouldn't worry about them not being able to handle whats going on.

 

[freakygirl]

MacCortz.. I'm at a slight disadvantage for the simple fact that.. because my husband does live in a far better school district than me, he has custody of the children (we did this 7 years ago, when we divorced). He does have the final say. We were discussing our alternatives, and I think he is starting to listen to my arguments.

And you pointed out some great arguments (points).. My ex husband is on the school board.. i have recently started going to the meetings also. I won't get into any details.. on our opinions about the reason for the strike. I will say, he and I are in agreement on our opinions

Lord Emu, The children that are involved are 14, 12, and 11. They aren't to young to be exposed.. They know what is going on. I just wanted basicly to know.. what people thought about sending the message that it is ok to cross picket lines. I know they aren't "scabs".. I always thought scabs were the workers hired to replace the striking workers. I'm not worried about violence.. They are in a small town/city.. with only a few schools. It's not like we are in downtown Seattle..

 

[It'sasecret]

I must say that most people have no idea how much time teachers put in. I get to work around 7:45 am and often do not leave until 7 pm. I always have a ton of work I bring home. Yes, we do have summers off, but you would not believe how much school work we do over the summer. Or how much of our own money we spend on supplies. In my district we are not even allowed to ask the kids to bring supplies in. So guess who buys them????? And while I am ragging........ I got punched by one of my second grade students this week. This is a different world then the one I grew up in.

 

[RedJ]

For the love of god..

..people (those that apply) stop flocking like sheep a slaughter house. Unions may be flawed but there are certainly better than letting corporations and the private sector run everything, just look what they have done to the third world or how much you private sector workers pay for health coverage. IT'S NO REASON TO MAKE THEM PAY MORE JUST BECAUSE YOU DO! Workers rights should be held in workers hands.

RedJ

 

[MacCortz]

I must say that most people have no idea how much time teachers put in. I get to work around 7:45 am and often do not leave until 7 pm. I always have a ton of work I bring home. Yes, we do have summers off, but you would not believe how much school work we do over the summer. Or how much of our own money we spend on supplies. In my district we are not even allowed to ask the kids to bring supplies in. So guess who buys them????? And while I am ragging........ I got punched by one of my second grade students this week. This is a different world then the one I grew up in.

This is the same way it was for my wife, very long hours and using her own money for supplies and even clothing for some students in real need.

Support your good teachers or soon there will be none.

 

[Guest]

Freakygurl, in the interest of your children's education NEXT year, I say send them to school. Funding for next year from the state is based on the average daily attendance from this year. If all the kids stay home during a strike, there will be even less money from the state for next year.



For those people who think having the summers, holidays, and Spring Break off, look at how many days you actually work each year.


In Ga, teachers contracts are for 190 days. We are required to be at school for 8 hours each day. I average 10 hours per day. Last year, I spent $2500 of my salary on classroom supplies and materials. For the 190 day school year, I was paid $23,500 the state base pay. None of my expenses for graduate school are reimbursed. I was required to attend workshops on three different Saturdays, for which I received no salary or reimbursement for expenses. After-school faculty meetings (weekly), PTA meetings (monthly), and Parent-teacher conferences (Twice each semester) are mandatory with no additional salary.

I love my job, I can't imagine doing anything else. Even more than pay and benefits comparable to what my degree would earn in the business community, I am waiting for the day when teacher's are respected as professionals.

 

[morninggirl5]

That was me up there, the abominable must have eaten my cookies.

 

[freakygirl]

** UPDATE **
ok.. This is the info I'm getting from the Districts web page...
___________________________________________________
November 21, 2001

School District and Teachers’ Association
Negotiations Update


The *________* School District Board of Directors heard from the *______* Teachers’ Association at the November 20, 2001 meeting that their membership declared a strike effective Monday, November 26. The district has requested further mediation with the Public Employment Relations Commission. It is hoped that this would occur over the Thanksgiving weekend.

The teachers’ association walked away from mediation on Saturday, November 17. The group officially rejected the districts latest offer at the Board meeting.
____________________________________________________

November 21, 2001



Dear Parents:

As many of you are aware, at the School Board meeting on November 21st, the *_______* Teachers’ Association announced a strike effective Monday, November 26th. I realize that this is a difficult time for you and your children and I want you to know what we are currently doing to resolve the remaining contractual issues.

The district has requested further mediation with the Public Employment Relations Commission. It is hoped this can occur over the Thanksgiving weekend.

The district has offered a 3.7% cost of living increase on the teachers’ base contract and their additional supplemental contracts for extra days, activities, athletics, inservice pay, incentive pay and personal leave buy-back days. The district has also agreed to implement increased preparation time for elementary teachers and to cover the cost of health care coverage for the employee. Unresolved is the issue of the health care retirement subsidy.

The district was surprised the teachers’ association called for a strike given the district’s significant movement to address their compensation issues. Information is available by contacting the district’s information line and website. Please listen to your radio for information each morning beginning on Monday, November 26th, concerning school closures.


We are working for a resolution to this contract dispute and will do our best to keep you informed. We ask for your patience and understanding of the issues.

Sincerely,



*________________*
Superintendent
____________________________________________________
District Offer to HTA
November 17, 2001
The *TA asked the district to pay for full health care coverage for the employee.

The district’s offer does that and more.

Single Employee
Employee Pays


17.03 medical
17.61 HCA



_____
$34.64


Employer Pays
21.00 vision
92.10 dental
326.27 medical
14.80 HCA
19.60 long-term care

_______
$473.77

* Medical Benefit pool -
$30,000 in 2001-02 ($19.67 per employee per month)
$33,750 in 2002-03 ($22.14 per employee per month)
(2 years only; contract opens in two years)
* 3.7% raise on base contract including non-state funded certificated staff
* 3.7% raise on extended contracts
* 3.7% raise on class preparation days
* 3.7% raise on co-curricular
* 3.7% raise on incentive pay
* 3.7% raise on inservice pay
* 3.7% raise on personal leave buy back
* 3.7% raise for substitutes
* Implementation of the committee’s recommendation on elementary preparation time by the beginning of the second semester.

This is a better total package than contracts in:
*
*
*
*
*(5 other schools in the county)

The current HCA carve out of $14.80 per employee per month and the proposed medical benefit pool for 2001-02 of $19.67 per employee per month (and $22.14 in 2002-03) is greater than the recently resolved agreements in:
Bellingham ($15. Per employee per month)
Castle Rock ($32.41 per employee per month)
and exceeds the benefit Governor Gary Locke receives.

Cost of district proposal in August: $33,798
Cost of district proposal now: $79,778

The district has issued a standing offer with the mediator to meet to reach agreement with the *TA.
____________________________________________________

Some of you may not agree with me.. but that is why we are individuals.. I don't think this is that bad of a contract. I don't know why they must interupt school for this bullshit.. (also considering.. the teachers contract isn't up until AFTER next years school year.. another year and a half away). This is the FIRST of many "games" they have planned. They aren't negotiating the WHOLE contract.. just bits and pieces over the next year.

Don't get me wrong.. I'm all for unions and standing up for our rights.. but in my eyes.. this is more than fair.

I will have to see if I can find out what they got or had taken away the last time they negoitated their contract.

 

[Chuckus]

I didn't read all the posts or most of them even. But I wanted my two cents in here.

Policemen, Fireman and Teachers are probably the most underpaid professions in the US. What a shame.

Policemen protect us, as do Fireman.

Teachers teach us and more..........

boils my blood. Kids have no incentive to want to become a teacher at all...........look at how much they get paid. Look how much they are underappreciated, I for one am not surprised by any shortage of teachers. Though I must take my hat off to all that do teach. Kudos to you.

I teach. But at a collegiate level, part time once in a blue moon. Engineering school. Of course, it is elective and not mandatory for these kids. Hell, I am a kid compared to some of the Professors but I do it because I want to give back what I learned at this particular University/College.

I do it, not for money, but because I want to. But if I had to do it full time, no way. You can barely keep your head above water on one salary. I have a few friends who are teachers and live alone, it is tough for them.