Pick your brain - word usage advice

[sr71plt]

For the record, "into" was the word I thought needed changed. I thought that "assert" used in the context was rather artful.

But I agree with you that, as often happens here, the thread got off into how other people would write it rather than working with what you wrote.

 

[NaokoSmith]

For the record, "into" was the word I thought needed changed. I thought that "assert" used in the context was rather artful.

Asserted was artful. It nicely suggests both what is happening: you cut into his thoughts, and your character: you can be assertive if needed and speak up with your own thoughts.

However sometimes something artfully written can pull us out of the story. We go: "Oh that was a nice turn of phrase," and have lost our immersion in the narrative.

After a year of poring over this, it can be really hard to tell whether it flows along, taking the reader with it or whether it's like a rock in the stream - attractive but distracting. It might be good to get someone to read the whole passage and let you know how the new phrase is fitting in.

 

[NaokoSmith]

It might be good to get someone to read the whole passage and let you know how the new phrase is fitting in.

Oh wait a minute , that would be me, who's been sitting on your book for months.

Soon, dearest, soon!

 

[SandraMustard]

Oh wait a minute , that would be me, who's been sitting on your book for months.

Soon, dearest, soon!

I am still hopeful, Ms Kitty.

I did not state the passage was from my novel, but it is. Am I neurotic for re-reading it so often than I have made hundreds of small changes and uploaded revisions about 10 times since it was published in May last year? If you have indeed been sitting on a copy for months, go back to get the latest version to read, it won't cost you.

I have made changes in my master copy to this passage for the next version. Asserted and consciousness were removed (then the latter used in another way last night). For those interested, here is a longer view to see the scene:

Chapter 16 – Ghost from His Past​

The moment I saw Woody when he came to take me to a movie on a Saturday night in early June, I knew something had upset him. His usual cheery smile remained locked behind lips frozen in a thin line. He seemed so lost in thought that he hardly knew I was at his side. We left my house almost without speaking a word. When he drove in the same stoic silence, I felt separated from his consciousness. Following a desire to be involved, I interrupted his trance by asking, “What’s troubling you, Woody?”

Woody visibly straightened and said, “I’m sorry, Baybuh. It’s nothing you need to worry about.” He pasted a deliberate smile on his face for a few seconds, but I knew him too well.

Because his answer said so, I believed the issue wasn’t about me, but he was troubled nonetheless. Assuming my Woody’s-girl authority, I stated, “If it worries you, then it worries me too. Whatever is botherin’ you, I want to help you deal with it, Darlin’. There’s nothing you’re afraid to share with me is there?”

Woody glanced at me, seemed to make a decision, and returned his attention to driving. “Mary called me tonight. She’s back from Iowa and wants to see me.” Silence stuffed the car, penetrated only by tires singing on pavement. At a loss for words, I believed there was danger from this ghost from his past. I had wondered what Mary found lacking in the guy that I found to be nearly perfect. Perhaps recognizing her mistake, she wanted him back. I wasn’t confident our four-month relationship stood up to their two-year experience and felt concerned about his attraction to his former love. Woody’s next words deepened my concern. “It won’t be pleasant seeing her tomorrow.” Not only had he talked to her, he already had plans to see her.

 

[Hypoxia]

Some wordiness. Lots of sing-songing (First them, then those. Because of this, I did that. When they blorted, I bleated.) and run-on clauses make for weakened declarations. And I prefer paragraphs in bite-sized single-theme chunks. My tech-editor's eye sees your passage this way:

Chapter 16 – Ghost from His Past​

Woody came to take me to a movie on an early June's Saturday night. I knew he was upset the moment I saw him -- his usual cheery smile was locked behind lips frozen in a thin, tight line.

We left my house almost without speaking a word. He was lost in thought; he hardly knew I was at his side. When he drove in the same stoic silence, I felt isolated, alone. I had to interrupt his trance.

“What’s troubling you, Woody?”

Woody visibly straightened. “I’m sorry, Baybuh. It’s nothing you need to worry about.” He pasted a deliberate smile on his face for a few seconds, but I knew him too well. I thought about his answer and decided the issue wasn’t about me. But he was troubled nonetheless.

I assumed my Woody’s-Girl authority. “If it worries you, then it worries me too. Whatever is botherin’ you, I want to help you deal with it, Darlin’. There’s nothing you’re afraid to share with me is there?”

Woody glanced at me and seemed to make a decision. He returned his attention to driving.

“Mary called me tonight. She’s back from Iowa and wants to see me.”

Silence suffused the car, penetrated only by tires singing on pavement. I felt danger from this ghost from his past but I hardly knew what to say. I had wondered what Mary found lacking in the guy I found nearly perfect. Maybe she recogned her mistake. Maybe she wanted him back. I wasn’t confident our four-month relationship could stood up to their two-year experience. I worried about his attraction to his former love.

Woody’s next words deepened my concern. “It won’t be pleasant seeing her tomorrow.”

Damn. Not only had he talked to her -- he already planned to see her.

 

[SandraMustard]

Some wordiness. Lots of sing-songing (First them, then those. Because of this, I did that. When they blorted, I bleated.) and run-on clauses make for weakened declarations. And I prefer paragraphs in bite-sized single-theme chunks. My tech-editor's eye sees your passage this way:

Thanks for your effort but that is not my style. Please don't take offense from my remarks. Yours may work for forum posts or a short Lit story but this is a 130K word novel, an erotic romance story not a tech manual. Already 200 Word pages, it would bloat to 400.

I don't like reading so many short sentences/paragraphs. They rattle like machine gun fire and lose story flow. I do combine clauses and make compound sentences but in moderation. I don't push it to what my husband describes as a Wolf Blitzer barrage of detail. I vary sentence and paragraph lengths to avoid monotony; I even purposely use fragments for emphasis. I believe your style would annoy more of my readers than the few it would please.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Some wordiness. Lots of sing-songing (First them, then those. Because of this, I did that. When they blorted, I bleated.) and run-on clauses make for weakened declarations. And I prefer paragraphs in bite-sized single-theme chunks. My tech-editor's eye sees your passage this way:

I deliberately went for a clipped short sentence style in my more recent writing. However, Sandra is right. The romance readers like it laid on thick and creamy .

Sandra, now that I have read the whole passage, I like asserted better. I agree with pilot about its artfulness. I can see now that your style has a lot of that in it, so you could probably get away with it. The reason you put asserted is that you elided. You meant: asserted myself by inserting my bit into his thoughts. But that is really lame. So you elided it all into: "asserted myself into his consciousness". Maybe it's the consciousness that's the problem.

I asserted myself in his reverie.

Like Pilot, I would go with 'in' rather than 'into'.

Your call is moving up the queue and will be answered shortly.

(Small matter of grievance with employers to get through first, sorry to say. Oh, and dramatic performance in which Piglet is to play Florence Nightingale's sister )

 

[SandraMustard]

I asserted myself in his reverie.

Like Pilot, I would go with 'in' rather than 'into'.

Your call is moving up the queue and will be answered shortly. Do I hear harps playing?

When Hypoxia first suggested reverie, I had to look up the definition. It sounded too lighthearted (day dreaming). Woody was grim, actually dreading the meet. So I picked the synonym 'trance'. I would again.

Would it be immoral to put asserted back in to be artful, if the artfulness of choosing it originally was accidental rather than purposeful?

 

[NaokoSmith]

When Hypoxia first suggested reverie, I had to look up the definition. It sounded too lighthearted (day dreaming). Woody was grim, actually dreading the meet. So I picked the synonym 'trance'. I would again.

Would it be immoral to put asserted back in to be artful, if the artfulness of choosing it originally was accidental rather than purposeful?

Uh, accidental artfulness usually goes by the name 'fine writing'.


I'm not so taken with trance. I understand you when you say you want something harder edged, to go with Woody's serious mood. The thing with reverie, daydream, etc, is that it's about 'thought' whereas 'trance' is about a mindless state. So you can assert yourself, verbally(ish) in dreams or thoughts, but to do so in someone's trance would be to break that trance.

Does that make sense? I could go on some more.

I could find another word, like: thought process, or maybe deep thoughts. <snerk>

No, I am a bit serious about the deep thoughts! I just couldn't resist snerking then.

 

[SandraMustard]

Well, let's give each artful word a separate frame

When he drove in the same stoic silence, I felt separated from his consciousness. Acting on a growing desire to be assertive, I interrupted his meditation by asking, “What’s troubling you, Woody?”

 

[sr71plt]

Wouldn't do it for me. Too convoluted and doesn't flow. Just looks awkward to me. I think you're fussing with it too much. (But that's just me.)

 

[SandraMustard]

Wouldn't do it for me. Too convoluted and doesn't flow. Just looks awkward to me. I think you're fussing with it too much. (But that's just me.)

You're right, I have that habit.

 

[RoyceConnors]

Well, let's give each artful word a separate frame

Would this work better?

I kept glancing over at Woody as he drove. He wore that same stoic expression that meant he was deep in his thoughts and not to bother him. I needed to know and knew if I was going to get anything out of him, I had to get more assertive in my approach. I put my hand high up on his thigh and leaned in, making sure I had his undivided attention.

"What's wrong, Woody? Tell me what's bothering you."

 

[SandraMustard]

Sorry Royce, I the thigh thing would be inappropriate (I was 15) and not true to my (autobiographic) story. Your whole passage is too wordy as well.

Thanks to Pilot's figurative face slap, I realized we have worried this point to death (and it started over a single word). We (hubby and I) worked on it again last night and shrunk it back to mostly what was there before. We kept a variation of assert but removed consciousness.

The moment I saw Woody when he came to take me to a movie on a Saturday night in early June, I knew something had upset him. His usual cheery smile remained locked behind lips frozen in a thin line. He seemed so lost in thought that he hardly knew I was at his side. We left my house almost without speaking a word. When he drove in the same stoic silence, I couldn’t endure the isolation any longer. Asserting my presence, I asked, “What’s troubling you, Woody?”

Thanks to all who contributed. I want to be done with this and move on.

 

[NaokoSmith]

We kept a variation of assert but removed consciousness.

Thanks to all who contributed. I want to be done with this and move on.

That's looking good! I like the assertiveness. Although your persona is a young woman, it conveys her strength of character.

I enjoyed this. Editing by collective. Post up some more.

 

[sr71plt]

Editing by collective.

I think that's the basic problem of this thread and threads like it. As an editor I don't rewrite for anyone. She asked about a word as it fit into context--her context. As an editor I don't run off rewriting the whole sentence in my style from my perceptions rather than her context. I noted that I thought the problem was another word rather than the one she asked about--and then left her to work it out in her own context. Asking if there's a better word in context and then being the one to decide whether it fits is fine. Editing and rewriting by committee is one of the worst things that can happen to someone's story/style/voice, though.

 

[NaokoSmith]

I think that's the basic problem of this thread and threads like it. As an editor I don't rewrite for anyone. She asked about a word as it fit into context--her context. As an editor I don't run off rewriting the whole sentence in my style from my perceptions rather than her context. I noted that I thought the problem was another word rather than the one she asked about--and then left her to work it out in her own context. Asking if there's a better word in context and then being the one to decide whether it fits is fine. Editing and rewriting by committee is one of the worst things that can happen to someone's story/style/voice, though.

Yes, darlin' course it is. You are so right, as ever.