Rape and murder in stories

[Pornocles]

So I just read the first page of a thread on the subject of rape in stories (https://forum.literotica.com/thread...e-category-questions-trigger-warning.1659676/) and I seems rape is allowed on Lit but can’t be called rape and the victim has to cum and can’t be killed.

But I read a story a long time ago, which was a winner/finalist, in a Halloween/horror story competition which had the hero bonding an female frankensteins monster and strangling her to death at the climax.

Where would this put my Criminal Minds parody idea?

This is not a fetish of mine or anything. It’s just an idea I have that might work but maybe won’t pass the bar.

That said, I have a Karen Slaughter book on my book shelf which has a detective solving a rape/murder case (where the victim was even fucked in the stab hole). This happened “off screen”, but still happened in a published book.

My idea has the un-sub raping and murdering two women, just as would have happened in an episode of Criminal Minds, though not on camera, presumably, before the BAU close in a track him down.

Would this story be doomed to remain unpublished? There would definitely be trigger warnings and relevant tags.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Snuff - murder during sex - isn't going to fly here, although stuff falls through. The rules are often slightly more forgiving for horror, but I'm still surprised at a competition winner being as you described - maybe it really was 'a long time ago' and things are different now.

Rape is allowed, and I'm not sure even using the word rape is banned (although the site is coy about it in the category naming)

If your story is about a detective solving a rape/murder case that isn't sexualize (and maybe not even directly dramatised) you should be fine. Just make sure that you keep the descriptions of what happened within the usual crime procedural good taste limits and don't eroticize the descriptions of what the serial killer (or whoever) was doing.

If you are worried about getting rejected, either write the story for yourself and see it being published as a possible bonus, or else consider how much it would take for you to tone down certain elements if you are dead set on having it here. No one on this forum can give you a 100% answer about whether it will be published or not, especially given the short description provided here.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

The context in which the actions are described make the difference.

You can mention brutality, including rape and death, but you cannot do so in a manner intending to arouse or titillate the reader. You cannot sexualize the action in any way. It has to be as non-erotic as a character brushing their teeth.

There are thousands of examples in traditional publishing where children are raped, people are sexually assaulted, and all sorts heinous acts are mentioned in books. These are typically done with the skill to place the acts into a context that publishers view as acceptable.

The same can be done here.

 

[NotWise]

Rape is allowed, and I'm not sure even using the word rape is banned (although the site is coy about it in the category naming)

You can use "rape" in your text. I don't think they allow "rape" as a story tag or as a search term.

 

[SimonDoom]

It's interesting how much confusion persists over this issue. The site could make things a lot easier by publishing clearer guidelines and putting them somewhere everybody can easily access.

There is no prohibition of rape and murder in stories at Literotica. There is a prohibition on the eroticization of rape and murder at Literotica. You are free to write a story about a detective who investigates brutal rapes and murders. You are not free to write a story that graphically depicts an act of rape in a way that will turn on some readers. That's what the site is trying to avoid.

The wrinkle to THAT rule is that you can present acts of nonconsensual sex as long as the "victim" enjoys it.

Got it?

It's a weird rule UNTIL you think about it from the Site's point of view, and what the Site is trying to accomplish, and then it makes sense.

 

[lovecraft68]

My answer to any of these types of questions is its a waste of time to ask here.

Submit it and find out.

 

[ClintonBrooks]

I have a story in the Erotic Horror category, https://www.literotica.com/s/a-serial-killer-romance

As the title shows, its about a serial killer, who includes acts of forced sex in their crime. As @SimonDoom pointed out, the victims ended up enjoying their experience, for awhile. When it came time for the actual killing, that was implied within the story, never written about directly...so no snuff.

 

[Pornocles]

My answer to any of these types of questions is its a waste of time to ask here.

Submit it and find out.

No, I’m not going to “submit it and find out”. It’s not written yet and I’m not going to spend time writing a story that won’t get published when I can write one that will.

Thank you @SimonDoom for your answer. This seems to be the most authoritative one here. At least you are convinced of these parameters.

On the balance I think it’s not worth writing at this point as I can’t be sure the rape won’t be turning someone on (though that’s what the sex parts of the stories here are supposed to do), even if the murder is more “off screen”.

@TheRedChamber the plot was to have the unsub, a college student (that Uni in the US, and of age, right?), who violently abducts the popular cheerleader and rapes her in an old shipping container in a heavily wooded gully in their town/city. Then murder her and burn the container. Murder off screen as I probably wouldn’t want to write that anyway. Classic criminal minds stuff except for the rape…

Then he was to pretend to be FedEx, or similar, and gain/force entry to a teachers house. Rape her and burn the house.

Then the BAU would pick it up as two cases with similar MO and the unsub would become obsessed with the blonde agent after the teams does interviews etc. at the school and attempt to rape and murder her too, likely being shot dead in the finale.

It’s been ages since I’ve watched an episode so can’t even remember who played the agent I’m thinking of and I’d have to watch a few reruns before writing.

All in all, easier to not attempt this at this time.

Thanks for your replies everyone else.

 

[lovecraft68]

No, I’m not going to “submit it and find out”. It’s not written yet and I’m not going to spend time writing a story that won’t get published when I can write one that will.

Its your time and effort so I'm not here to argue with you or say that Simon is wrong because he's not, but his answer is based on how things should work.

Should is the key word I'll bring up.

Anyone who has been here for a while knows that you can write a story within the guidelines and still have it kicked back unfairly.

We also know that someone can write a story that blatantly breaks a rule and it flies right on through and NC/R is the biggest example of that by far.

Meaning that you can take the answer you're satisfied with here and write the story within those parameters and still have it kicked back, so be prepared for that possibility.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

It's interesting how much confusion persists over this issue. The site could make things a lot easier by publishing clearer guidelines and putting them somewhere everybody can easily access.

There is no prohibition of rape and murder in stories at Literotica. There is a prohibition on the eroticization of rape and murder at Literotica. You are free to write a story about a detective who investigates brutal rapes and murders. You are not free to write a story that graphically depicts an act of rape in a way that will turn on some readers. That's what the site is trying to avoid.

The wrinkle to THAT rule is that you can present acts of nonconsensual sex as long as the "victim" enjoys it.

Got it?

It's a weird rule UNTIL you think about it from the Site's point of view, and what the Site is trying to accomplish, and then it makes sense.

I think you didn't present that right. I agree about murder. You can say a murder happened; you can even show a scene of murder happening, but there mustn't be any erotic element to the act.

It's the rape part that you presented somewhat incorrectly. Actually, the only way the rape flies on Lit is IF it's eroticized. Specifically, the victim of the rape needs to enjoy it erotically, regardless of their unwillingness and the brutality of rape. You metioned this later in the post, but it was conflicted with your prior statement.

And this specific rule is quite ridiculous and silly, even if there's one particular angle from which it makes sense. If the victim enjoyed something a little bit, regardless of how brutal it was, then a tenuous case could be made that "The victim enjoyed it a bit, so that means that it wasn't that bad" or "The victim enjoyed it to a degree, so maybe they unconsciously desired it."

 

[Dearelliot]

Unrelated to here: It is odd, that in everyday stories, TV and movies, what the kids see, murder is commonplace, violence is the norm, bloodshed, foul words, cursing, hate, often ...but if it has to do with sex, something we all engage in, that is verboten! We dont want sex! What a sick country we live in...Show a woman's nipple, they want prison time...use a bomb to blow up a guy's house...yeah sure, that's okay for the kids

 

[SimonDoom]

I think you didn't present that right. I agree about murder. You can say a murder happened; you can even show a scene of murder happening, but there mustn't be any erotic element to the act.

It's the rape part that you presented somewhat incorrectly. Actually, the only way the rape flies on Lit is IF it's eroticized. Specifically, the victim of the rape needs to enjoy it erotically, regardless of their unwillingness and the brutality of rape. You metioned this later in the post, but it was conflicted with your prior statement.

And this specific rule is quite ridiculous and silly, even if there's one particular angle from which it makes sense. If the victim enjoyed something a little bit, regardless of how brutal it was, then a tenuous case could be made that "The victim enjoyed it a bit, so that means that it wasn't that bad" or "The victim enjoyed it to a degree, so maybe they unconsciously desired it."

I don't think this is quite right. I agree that the way I said it before creates some ambiguity, so I'll try to clarify.

Lit does not bar stories about rape, per se. You can write a detective story that features a detective investigating a rape the same way you can about murder.

Literotica is trying to prevent the publication of stories that eroticize rape, UNLESS the rape (or more accurately, in Literotica parlance, nonconsensual sex) is presented so that the victim enjoys it.

So, to give specific examples:

1. A story that features a rapist and a detective investigating the crimes would not be barred by Literotica, per se. This would simply be a crime story. That's OK.

2. A story of type 1 that depicts the rape in a graphic way that reasonably might be construed by a reader as an eroticization of the rape, such that the reader gets turned on, would be forbidden by Literotica, in the same way a snuff story would be.

3. But, contrary to the story type 2 rule, if nonconsensual sex (which would include what we commonly think of as "rape" plus a much broader class of nonconsensual sex) is presented such that the victim derives some satisfaction from the activity, it's OK.

This is how I read the Site's rules. The extra wrinkle is that one cannot use "rape" as a tag even if the story flies.

 

[Pornocles]

Unrelated to here: It is odd, …

The irony of modern media when sex is more gratuitous than violence.

That said I think they have looser rules about sexual content on TV in Europe. And the US is pretty notorious for being a violent country with right wing media stoking the fire.