"Red Flag" law?

[bellisarius]

Here we go again. Once more into the "we have to do SOMETHING (even if it's stupid)" mind set.

First of all I doubt that it is going to be able to withstand a SCOTUS challenge. Even the ACLU is coming out against this lunacy.

But until such time as that challenge is brought forth and visited by the court I'm gong to go on record as predicting that this law, should it pass, is going to be used FAR more often maliciously than it will be used to prevent any tragedy.

 

[FGB]

Here we go again. Once more into the "we have to do SOMETHING (even if it's stupid)" mind set.

First of all I doubt that it is going to be able to withstand a SCOTUS challenge. Even the ACLU is coming out against this lunacy.

But until such time as that challenge is brought forth and visited by the court I'm gong to go on record as predicting that this law, should it pass, is going to be used FAR more often maliciously than it will be used to prevent any tragedy.

That IS the trouble with that kind of stuff.

 

[LesDesirable]

It must be a great idea because President Trump asked for it.

The neighbour who hates me for suing him for flooding my yard with his drainage ditch, can call the county to tell them I threatened him with a gun. My doors get kicked in, my dog gets shot, my kids are terrified, and my guns are confiscated until some nebulous date when the court decides if I can have them back, or if the confiscation should be a year, or even permanent. I don't even get to know who made the complaint, because protecting the source is important.

I see no possible abuses.

 

[Kantarii]

Nothing good ever comes from reacting to tragedy.

 

[LesDesirable]

Nothing good ever comes from reacting to tragedy.

- Usama Bin Laden
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

 

[Kantarii]

- Usama Bin Laden
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Let’s clarify that. I said nothing good. I didn’t say no one good. There’s a difference.

 

[LesDesirable]

Let’s clarify that. I said nothing good. I didn’t say no one good. There’s a difference.

I was indicating quotations, not answering your overly simplistic bullet point on red flag laws.

(nothing good comes from reacting to a tragedy - Usama . . .)
(nothing good comes from reacting to a tragedy - FDR. . .)

see? it was a joke, a non-serious post, a non-sequitur, just for fun.

 

[4est_Trump]

Red fag law?

Leave AJ out of this.

 

[Comshaw]

Here we go again. Once more into the "we have to do SOMETHING (even if it's stupid)" mind set.

First of all I doubt that it is going to be able to withstand a SCOTUS challenge. Even the ACLU is coming out against this lunacy.

But until such time as that challenge is brought forth and visited by the court I'm gong to go on record as predicting that this law, should it pass, is going to be used FAR more often maliciously than it will be used to prevent any tragedy.

Damn Ish! You are a two faced asshole. How many times have you told us that it isn't the gun but the person behind it that's responsible for these shootings? How many times have you insisted we need to address the problem of the mentally ill who are responsible for these shootings, then you turn around and post this? WTF?

But I'll try to be civilized and address your points one at a time.

1) The ACLU isn't coming out against the Rhode Island law, only the Rhode Island branch of the ACLU is voicing grave concerns about it. Meanwhile in Colorado the ACLU of Colorado is neutral on the ERPO being worked on there. The way you stated it the entire ACLU is adamantly against ERPO's. From the links provided you see that isn't the case. Don't be so god damned disingenuous.

2) The state of Washington has an ERPO law on the books, passed by the people of the state as Initiative 1491 (link below). I''m not sure how it compares to the proposed Rhode Island or Colorado law, but it seems to be working as intended. And I'll have to disagree with you on if and when it is challenged in court, I doubt very much if it will be found unconstitutional. Additionally your conspiracy based statement that it will be used more maliciously then not says volumes about your mindset.

So let's look at another scenario: The second amendment says that a citizens right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, yes? Additionally the Supreme court has held that the government can restrict the private ownership of certain types of firearms. So how long will it be before someone comes up with the idea to restrict all private ownership of firearms except for antique (IE; cap and ball and flint lock muzzle loaders)? Never happen you say? If the extreme gun activists keep fighting every thing that's tried to stop the killing of innocent citizens, it might come to pass.

Nothing good ever comes from reacting to tragedy.

And something bad ALWAYS comes from not reacting to a tragedy that can be kept from happening a second (or hundredth) time. As evidenced by Ish's post above, there are those who want to give it a sad shake of the head, a platitude or two, then fight anything that might mitigate or reduce the incidents of it in the future and ignore the impact in lost lives untill it happens again. The problem with that is people are tired of losing loved ones because of a vocal minority and a government that is crippled by it's own ineptitude.

http://www.riaclu.org/news/post/aclu-of-rhode-island-raises-red-flags-over-red-flag-gun-legislation

https://www.westword.com/news/aclu-neutral-on-colorado-red-flag-law-concerned-about-jail-overcrowding-10263722
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=7.94

Comshaw

 

[Hal9000_]

Well...everyone who has ever posted on this site is REG FLAGGED!


Dangerous asswholes!

 

[SpeareChucker]

Here we go again. Once more into the "we have to do SOMETHING (even if it's stupid)" mind set.

First of all I doubt that it is going to be able to withstand a SCOTUS challenge. Even the ACLU is coming out against this lunacy.

But until such time as that challenge is brought forth and visited by the court I'm gong to go on record as predicting that this law, should it pass, is going to be used FAR more often maliciously than it will be used to prevent any tragedy.

It would turn back all of their hard work to mainstream mental illness.

 

[stenkarazin]

Plus, Barron is mentally ill. Speaks less than Kushner.

 

[bellisarius]

Damn Ish! You are a two faced asshole. How many times have you told us that it isn't the gun but the person behind it that's responsible for these shootings? How many times have you insisted we need to address the problem of the mentally ill who are responsible for these shootings, then you turn around and post this? WTF?

But I'll try to be civilized and address your points one at a time.

1) The ACLU isn't coming out against the Rhode Island law, only the Rhode Island branch of the ACLU is voicing grave concerns about it. Meanwhile in Colorado the ACLU of Colorado is neutral on the ERPO being worked on there. The way you stated it the entire ACLU is adamantly against ERPO's. From the links provided you see that isn't the case. Don't be so god damned disingenuous.

2) The state of Washington has an ERPO law on the books, passed by the people of the state as Initiative 1491 (link below). I''m not sure how it compares to the proposed Rhode Island or Colorado law, but it seems to be working as intended. And I'll have to disagree with you on if and when it is challenged in court, I doubt very much if it will be found unconstitutional. Additionally your conspiracy based statement that it will be used more maliciously then not says volumes about your mindset.

So let's look at another scenario: The second amendment says that a citizens right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, yes? Additionally the Supreme court has held that the government can restrict the private ownership of certain types of firearms. So how long will it be before someone comes up with the idea to restrict all private ownership of firearms except for antique (IE; cap and ball and flint lock muzzle loaders)? Never happen you say? If the extreme gun activists keep fighting every thing that's tried to stop the killing of innocent citizens, it might come to pass.




And something bad ALWAYS comes from not reacting to a tragedy that can be kept from happening a second (or hundredth) time. As evidenced by Ish's post above, there are those who want to give it a sad shake of the head, a platitude or two, then fight anything that might mitigate or reduce the incidents of it in the future and ignore the impact in lost lives untill it happens again. The problem with that is people are tired of losing loved ones because of a vocal minority and a government that is crippled by it's own ineptitude.

http://www.riaclu.org/news/post/aclu-of-rhode-island-raises-red-flags-over-red-flag-gun-legislation

https://www.westword.com/news/aclu-neutral-on-colorado-red-flag-law-concerned-about-jail-overcrowding-10263722
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=7.94

Comshaw

That's right moron. It is the individual. The rest of your post is gibberish.

 

[bellisarius]

It would turn back all of their hard work to mainstream mental illness.

*chuckle* We can't have that now, can we?

 

[stenkarazin]

How will retards defend themselves if they can’t own guns?

That doesn’t sound very American to me.

 

[SpeareChucker]

This could be used as an end-around the Constitution;
anyone who has had as much as marriage counseling could end up on that list
and get that warrantless knock in the middle of the night for "confiscation."

The good news here, is once again, once the passion finally dies down,
the issue will die with Democrats because they know it will cost them votes
in a Presidential election and power trumps principles every time in politics.

As I have said, they have fought too hard and long for the rights of the mentally ill.
As we learn more, especially in the case of the Dayton shooting this was a failure of
if you see something, say something; or if something was said, it was to a deaf system.

 

[stenkarazin]

Good point. Shooter was crazy.

Something close to 10% of the population is crazy, so if 35 million peeps couldnt own guns, like thats gonna happen.

 

[Hal9000_]

Good point. Shooter was crazy.

Something close to 10% of the population is crazy, so if 35 million peeps couldnt own guns, like thats gonna happen.

So, who got shooted (sic) in Russia today?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Russia


Nice...keep on...keepon komrade

 

[bellisarius]

The psych people could write a book about the Dayton asshole (and someone probably will). Kind a hard to say something when you're being taught that virtually any sort of abhorrent behavior OK.

People, even kids, generally know when someone's fucked up (remember the Parkland shooter?) and they tend to shun those people and that contributes to the isolation. But the courts have made it virtually impossible to do anything about it.

As much as the old laws were abused, and they were, this proposal is going to be abused even worse.

 

[SpeareChucker]

And that is a good point!
The list of mental illnesses that we intend to mainstream
keeps growing and growing and growing; it's not polite to notice aberrant behavior.

 

[Hal9000_]

Why is this a west vs east issue?

Crazy people are everywhere.

I think this was a song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3j2NYZ8FKs

 

[stenkarazin]

So, who got shooted (sic) in Russia today?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Russia


Nice...keep on...keepon komrade

See how short the list? Last entry, 2018.

In 2019 usa has 220 mass shooting so far!!!

Usa will make good province of russia.

 

[bellisarius]

And that is a good point!
The list of mental illnesses that we intend to mainstream
keeps growing and growing and growing; it's not polite to notice aberrant behavior.

If you do you're going to get labeled as some kind of "ist", and not the good kind. With only a few exceptions all of these whacko's were off the rails in high school. I would think that that would be the time to identify them, before they come into their full "civil liberties." But I can sure as hell see any effort there being abused as well.

 

[Hal9000_]

Who gets poisoned in the west?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8y_V-uxLXA

 

[stenkarazin]

If you do you're going to get labeled as some kind of "ist", and not the good kind. With only a few exceptions all of these whacko's were off the rails in high school. I would think that that would be the time to identify them, before they come into their full "civil liberties." But I can sure as hell see any effort there being abused as well.

Early intervention based on skills development testing at ages as low as 3 can prevent almost all antisocial behavior in adults.