Self-Abuse, Idiocy & Other Perils of Boyhood, from the 1908 Scouting Handbook
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oggbashan
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Re: Let us admire Hitler day
Some countries see MacDonalds and Coca Cola as 'The Evil Empire' aiming for world domination. It is no co-incidence that MacDonalds are targeted by anti-capitalist demonstrators.
I do not admire Hitler. What he and the Nazi leaders did is unforgiveable. Understanding HOW (and how well) he did it is essential to prevent something similar ever occuring again. Hitler was given power by a democracy.
Og
Pure said:
Some countries see MacDonalds and Coca Cola as 'The Evil Empire' aiming for world domination. It is no co-incidence that MacDonalds are targeted by anti-capitalist demonstrators.
I do not admire Hitler. What he and the Nazi leaders did is unforgiveable. Understanding HOW (and how well) he did it is essential to prevent something similar ever occuring again. Hitler was given power by a democracy.
Og
shereads
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Re: Re: Let us admire Hitler day
I, for one, never imagined that you did. Didn't intend to insult the Scouts, either. Just thought that passage from the book was worth dusting off and posting as an example of the timewarp that was the recent century.
There are too many things to count that were politically correct half a century ago or half an hour ago. Underage girls, for one. Seen Woody Allen's "Manhattan," lately? I remember when it was funny. Now it makes my skin crawl. And it hasn't been that long ago.
oggbashan said:
I, for one, never imagined that you did. Didn't intend to insult the Scouts, either. Just thought that passage from the book was worth dusting off and posting as an example of the timewarp that was the recent century.
There are too many things to count that were politically correct half a century ago or half an hour ago. Underage girls, for one. Seen Woody Allen's "Manhattan," lately? I remember when it was funny. Now it makes my skin crawl. And it hasn't been that long ago.
Pure
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Ogg: And yes, Mein Kampf did have good ideas for the time. Some of those ideas are still valid today BUT not the racist ideology.
------
[pure:]
Perhaps you can post a short list of these 'good ideas,' *especially those still valid today.*
I ask simply for my enlightenment, and since you posted in support of Baden Powell's remark, which I take it you agree with
//More disturbing however, and more difficult to explain away with ease, was a diary entry for 6 October 1939 made after reading Mein Kampf. B-P wanted to know his enemy:[B-P] "Lay up all day...A wonderful book, with good ideas on education, health, propaganda, organization, etc...." (Jeal 550). [Jeal is a well known and admiring biographer of BP]//
Again, what, Ogg, in the 'good ideas' do you find esp. insightful and relevant for our time?
J.
Note to Sher about then and now acceptability:
I agree that, for the British nobility, minor would-be nobility like Baronet Baden Powell, and Military Officers, racism and anti Semitism of the Boer-War period [where BP distinguished himself in fighting the Dutch and keeping control of the Blacks] was quite genteel and acceptable. But for those (Dutch, men women children; Blacks, men women and children) on the receiving end, you would, I'm sure, agree that the experience would be less than benign.
------
[pure:]
Perhaps you can post a short list of these 'good ideas,' *especially those still valid today.*
I ask simply for my enlightenment, and since you posted in support of Baden Powell's remark, which I take it you agree with
//More disturbing however, and more difficult to explain away with ease, was a diary entry for 6 October 1939 made after reading Mein Kampf. B-P wanted to know his enemy:[B-P] "Lay up all day...A wonderful book, with good ideas on education, health, propaganda, organization, etc...." (Jeal 550). [Jeal is a well known and admiring biographer of BP]//
Again, what, Ogg, in the 'good ideas' do you find esp. insightful and relevant for our time?
J.
Note to Sher about then and now acceptability:
I agree that, for the British nobility, minor would-be nobility like Baronet Baden Powell, and Military Officers, racism and anti Semitism of the Boer-War period [where BP distinguished himself in fighting the Dutch and keeping control of the Blacks] was quite genteel and acceptable. But for those (Dutch, men women children; Blacks, men women and children) on the receiving end, you would, I'm sure, agree that the experience would be less than benign.
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oggbashan
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Here is an extract on propaganda. Change the word 'propaganda' (which at the time Mein Kampf was written was a neutral word with a similar meaning to 'spreading a message') to 'advertising Multi-Level Marketing' and see how relevant it is to recruitment of franchisees...
"For this reason it is advisable first to propagate and publicly expound the ideas on which the movement is founded. This work of propaganda should continue for a certain time and should be directed from one centre. When the ideas have gradually won over a number of people this human material should be carefully sifted for the purpose of selecting those who have ability in leadership and putting that ability to the test. It will often be found that apparently insignificant persons will nevertheless turn out to be born leaders.
Of course, it is quite a mistake to suppose that those who show a very intelligent grasp of the theory underlying a movement are for that reason qualified to fill responsible positions on the directorate. The contrary is very frequently the case.
Great masters of theory are only very rarely great organizers also. And this is because the greatness of the theorist and founder of a system consists in being able to discover and lay down those laws that are right in the abstract, whereas the organizer must first of all be a man of psychological insight. He must take men as they are, and for that reason he must know them, not having too high or too low an estimate of human nature. He must take account of their weaknesses, their baseness and all the other various characteristics, so as to form something out of them which will be a living organism, endowed with strong powers of resistance, fitted to be the carrier of an idea and strong enough to ensure the triumph of that idea.
But it is still more rare to find a great theorist who is at the same time a great leader. For the latter must be more of an agitator, a truth that will not be readily accepted by many of those who deal with problems only from the scientific standpoint. And yet what I say is only natural. For an agitator who shows himself capable of expounding ideas to the great masses must always be a psychologist, even though he may be only a demagogue. Therefore he will always be a much more capable leader than the contemplative theorist who meditates on his ideas, far from the human throng and the world. For to be a leader means to be able to move the masses. The gift of formulating ideas has nothing whatsoever to do with the capacity for leadership. It would be entirely futile to discuss the question as to which is the more important: the faculty of conceiving ideals and human aims or that of being able to have them put into practice. Here, as so often happens in life, the one would be entirely meaningless without the other. The noblest conceptions of the human understanding remain without purpose or value if the leader cannot move the masses towards them. And, conversely, what would it avail to have all the genius and elan of a leader if the intellectual theorist does not fix the aims for which mankind must struggle. But when the abilities of theorist and organizer and leader are united in the one person, then we have the rarest phenomenon on this earth. And it is that union which produces the great man."
For 'great man' read regional market manager...
Og
"For this reason it is advisable first to propagate and publicly expound the ideas on which the movement is founded. This work of propaganda should continue for a certain time and should be directed from one centre. When the ideas have gradually won over a number of people this human material should be carefully sifted for the purpose of selecting those who have ability in leadership and putting that ability to the test. It will often be found that apparently insignificant persons will nevertheless turn out to be born leaders.
Of course, it is quite a mistake to suppose that those who show a very intelligent grasp of the theory underlying a movement are for that reason qualified to fill responsible positions on the directorate. The contrary is very frequently the case.
Great masters of theory are only very rarely great organizers also. And this is because the greatness of the theorist and founder of a system consists in being able to discover and lay down those laws that are right in the abstract, whereas the organizer must first of all be a man of psychological insight. He must take men as they are, and for that reason he must know them, not having too high or too low an estimate of human nature. He must take account of their weaknesses, their baseness and all the other various characteristics, so as to form something out of them which will be a living organism, endowed with strong powers of resistance, fitted to be the carrier of an idea and strong enough to ensure the triumph of that idea.
But it is still more rare to find a great theorist who is at the same time a great leader. For the latter must be more of an agitator, a truth that will not be readily accepted by many of those who deal with problems only from the scientific standpoint. And yet what I say is only natural. For an agitator who shows himself capable of expounding ideas to the great masses must always be a psychologist, even though he may be only a demagogue. Therefore he will always be a much more capable leader than the contemplative theorist who meditates on his ideas, far from the human throng and the world. For to be a leader means to be able to move the masses. The gift of formulating ideas has nothing whatsoever to do with the capacity for leadership. It would be entirely futile to discuss the question as to which is the more important: the faculty of conceiving ideals and human aims or that of being able to have them put into practice. Here, as so often happens in life, the one would be entirely meaningless without the other. The noblest conceptions of the human understanding remain without purpose or value if the leader cannot move the masses towards them. And, conversely, what would it avail to have all the genius and elan of a leader if the intellectual theorist does not fix the aims for which mankind must struggle. But when the abilities of theorist and organizer and leader are united in the one person, then we have the rarest phenomenon on this earth. And it is that union which produces the great man."
For 'great man' read regional market manager...
Og
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Pretty murky stuff, but whatever turns your crank: Appeal to the baseness of the masses and turn them into an organism that will carry forward an ideal --(National Socialism; Aryan supremacy).
Ftsoa I'll agree that H &co. had, in one sense, 'good ideas' --like that above--as to methods of propagandizing.
Do you agree with Baden Powell about Hitler's good ideas in the field of education?
Does it bother you that Baden Powell was a high muckymuck in the first efforts of a modern army to 'pacificy' a countryside by herding civilian men women and kids into concentration camps?
http://africanhistory.about.com/gi/...ttp://www.anglo-boer.co.za/concentration.html
Ftsoa I'll agree that H &co. had, in one sense, 'good ideas' --like that above--as to methods of propagandizing.
Do you agree with Baden Powell about Hitler's good ideas in the field of education?
Does it bother you that Baden Powell was a high muckymuck in the first efforts of a modern army to 'pacificy' a countryside by herding civilian men women and kids into concentration camps?
http://africanhistory.about.com/gi/...ttp://www.anglo-boer.co.za/concentration.html
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Pure
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Baden Powell's most celebrated exploit was to 'hold' the town of Mafeking, for several months, against the Boers who beseiged it. This was facilitated by his discovery that Black men women and children, there, only required 1/3 to 1/4 the calories that British people did. Some Blacks were unaware of this lower requirement, however, and 2000 died.
http://users.westconnect.com.au/~ianmac5/exhibit8.html
An Australian website, good historical material. Gut wrenching photos
Anglo-Boer War Study of Australia
EXHIBITION GALLERY No. 7
General Roberts and questions about 'Ethnic Cleansing'
Most British historians agree that General Roberts was a great improvement on his predecessors. He managed to sucure military victories out of past disasters. The phrase 'ethnic cleansing' had not yet entered the English language, but Ethnic Cleansing certainly took place on the Rand. When Roberts took Johannesburg he had already prepared for immediate action to rid the town of "Jews and other riff-raff." Many Mediterraneans and Central Europeans were arrested and deported on trumped-up charges of plotting to kill Roberts and his entourage.
More than 300 were arrested the day after the town had surrendered. Amongst them were two Englishmen! Two days after the town was taken the British issued a gazette re-imposing the Pass Laws of the ZAR to control Black inhabitants. Sadly many Blacks had seen the British as liberators and some had even torn up their passes.
Baden-Powell and his treatment of the Barolong People of Mafeking
The Siege of Mafeking by the Boers encircled town inhabitants both Black and White. Leader of the defence of Mafeking was Colonel Baden-Powell, soon elevated to great international celebrity for his part in the siege, and future founder of the Scouting movement, including Boy Scouts. Baden Powell's broken promises to the Barolong and other Blacks in Mafeking who bore arms and participated actively in the Siege, led to a high death toll among the Blacks. This is quite apart from his miserly rationing which gave Blacks far, far less than their White--or their Boer--counterparts and led to the starvation of an estimated 2000. When some of the women left the town in desperation with their children the Boers refused to let them through and drove them back to certain death.
http://users.westconnect.com.au/~ianmac5/exhibit8.html
An Australian website, good historical material. Gut wrenching photos
Anglo-Boer War Study of Australia
EXHIBITION GALLERY No. 7
General Roberts and questions about 'Ethnic Cleansing'
Most British historians agree that General Roberts was a great improvement on his predecessors. He managed to sucure military victories out of past disasters. The phrase 'ethnic cleansing' had not yet entered the English language, but Ethnic Cleansing certainly took place on the Rand. When Roberts took Johannesburg he had already prepared for immediate action to rid the town of "Jews and other riff-raff." Many Mediterraneans and Central Europeans were arrested and deported on trumped-up charges of plotting to kill Roberts and his entourage.
More than 300 were arrested the day after the town had surrendered. Amongst them were two Englishmen! Two days after the town was taken the British issued a gazette re-imposing the Pass Laws of the ZAR to control Black inhabitants. Sadly many Blacks had seen the British as liberators and some had even torn up their passes.
Baden-Powell and his treatment of the Barolong People of Mafeking
The Siege of Mafeking by the Boers encircled town inhabitants both Black and White. Leader of the defence of Mafeking was Colonel Baden-Powell, soon elevated to great international celebrity for his part in the siege, and future founder of the Scouting movement, including Boy Scouts. Baden Powell's broken promises to the Barolong and other Blacks in Mafeking who bore arms and participated actively in the Siege, led to a high death toll among the Blacks. This is quite apart from his miserly rationing which gave Blacks far, far less than their White--or their Boer--counterparts and led to the starvation of an estimated 2000. When some of the women left the town in desperation with their children the Boers refused to let them through and drove them back to certain death.
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Pure
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http://www.anglo-boer.co.za/concentration.html
Out of his African experiences, and his war experiences with actual 'boy scouts', i.e army scouts--e.g., messengers-- who were boys, Baden Powell drafted a more universally appealing version of scouting, less directly connected to the army, but still filled with the muscular pride of the British empire in all its splendor, including its glorious defeat of the Boers and claiming of all of southern Africa. There were a few 'optics' problems, as when the conditions below were reported back to the British people by humanitarian Emily Hobhouse.
[British run concentration camps, ca 1901]
from the website above:
Children who were under six years of age received 0,5 lb of meal daily, 1/2 meat twice weekly, 1/4 tin of milk daily, 1 oz sugar daily and 1/2 oz of salt daily. This very poor diet led to the rapid spread of diseases such as whooping cough, measles, typhoid fever, diphtheria, diarrhoea and dysentery, especially amongst the children.
There was a chronic shortage of both medical supplies and medical staff. Eventually 26,370 women and children (81% were children) died in the concentration camps.
The visit of the British humanitarian, Miss Emily Hobhouse, a delegate of the South African Women and Children's Distress Fund to the camps in the southern Orange Free State led to an improvement in the conditions.
-----
Out of his African experiences, and his war experiences with actual 'boy scouts', i.e army scouts--e.g., messengers-- who were boys, Baden Powell drafted a more universally appealing version of scouting, less directly connected to the army, but still filled with the muscular pride of the British empire in all its splendor, including its glorious defeat of the Boers and claiming of all of southern Africa. There were a few 'optics' problems, as when the conditions below were reported back to the British people by humanitarian Emily Hobhouse.
[British run concentration camps, ca 1901]
from the website above:
Children who were under six years of age received 0,5 lb of meal daily, 1/2 meat twice weekly, 1/4 tin of milk daily, 1 oz sugar daily and 1/2 oz of salt daily. This very poor diet led to the rapid spread of diseases such as whooping cough, measles, typhoid fever, diphtheria, diarrhoea and dysentery, especially amongst the children.
There was a chronic shortage of both medical supplies and medical staff. Eventually 26,370 women and children (81% were children) died in the concentration camps.
The visit of the British humanitarian, Miss Emily Hobhouse, a delegate of the South African Women and Children's Distress Fund to the camps in the southern Orange Free State led to an improvement in the conditions.
-----
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Pure
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you can check hat angles about 3/4 of the way down the page at
http://users.westconnect.com.au/~ianmac5/exhibit8.html
{caption}
This magic lantern slide celebrates the exploits of British General Sir George White, who relieved the town of Ladysmith, and Colonel Baden Powell of Mafeking.
http://users.westconnect.com.au/~ianmac5/exhibit8.html
{caption}
This magic lantern slide celebrates the exploits of British General Sir George White, who relieved the town of Ladysmith, and Colonel Baden Powell of Mafeking.
Svenskaflicka
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I've read that in the old days - the REALLY old days - good Christian boys were taught to wear a string around their dicks, so that in case it started to grow during the night, they would wake up and take a cold shower to kill all temptations of the flesh.
G
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shereads said:I don't doubt that self-abuse leads to idiocy, but what's this business with killing the unemployed?
Within reason, I might have to agree. The Spartans believed that if you could not contribute to society you had no right to be a burden on it and you were executed. May be a little harsh but effective.
Svenskaflicka
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Dranoel said:
All of a sudden, I think of Dubya...
G
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Svenskaflicka said:
Ouch.
Wasn't a complete agreement. Just an observation.
Pure
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Dran: The Spartans believed that if you could not contribute to society you had no right to be a burden on it and you were executed. May be a little harsh but effective.
The British, took no such namby pamby view: with the Boers and Blacks, they were the modern (re) inventers of 'pacification' techniques of much current relevance: destroy people's homes, kill the livestock, and cart off the women and kids to stinking "secure" camps to let nature take its course.
Clearly the maxim was "If you CAN contribute to society, but are of the wrong national background, ethnicity, or race, you don't necessarily have much of a right to anything at all, except to subsist in an out-of-the-way area; BUT if your allegiance is suspect (or that of your father or husband) you don't even have a right to live.
The Brits cleared the land of Boers much as the Americans cleared the land of 'Indians' (aboriginals).
Speaking of 'times change' Sher.... Can you remember when we (Americans at the movies) were 'glad' to see Indians--the 'bad ones'-- who were "attacking" get slaughtered by the cowboys or soldiers? Are you a bit queasier now, along the lines you mentioned for "Manhattan"? Ever see "Soldier Blue"?
The British, took no such namby pamby view: with the Boers and Blacks, they were the modern (re) inventers of 'pacification' techniques of much current relevance: destroy people's homes, kill the livestock, and cart off the women and kids to stinking "secure" camps to let nature take its course.
Clearly the maxim was "If you CAN contribute to society, but are of the wrong national background, ethnicity, or race, you don't necessarily have much of a right to anything at all, except to subsist in an out-of-the-way area; BUT if your allegiance is suspect (or that of your father or husband) you don't even have a right to live.
The Brits cleared the land of Boers much as the Americans cleared the land of 'Indians' (aboriginals).
Speaking of 'times change' Sher.... Can you remember when we (Americans at the movies) were 'glad' to see Indians--the 'bad ones'-- who were "attacking" get slaughtered by the cowboys or soldiers? Are you a bit queasier now, along the lines you mentioned for "Manhattan"? Ever see "Soldier Blue"?
Pure
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{OK, i can take the addition of 'pure', but 'obedient to parents'??}
The Original Scout Law (1908)
http://faculty.smu.edu/bwheeler/chivalry/rosenthal.html
[start quote]
THE SCOUT LAW
1. A scout's honour is to be trusted.
If a scout says: "On my honour it is so," that means that it is so, just as if he had taken a most solemn oath.
Similarly, if a scout officer says to a scout, "I trust you on your honour to do this," the scout is bound to carry out the order to the very best of his ability, and to let nothing interfere with his doing so.
If a scout were to break his honour by telling a lie, or by not carrying out an order exactly when trusted on his honour to do so, he would cease to be a scout, and must hand over his scout badge, and never be allowed to wear it againÑlie loses his life.
2. A scout is loyal to the King, and to his officers, and to his country, and to his employers. He must stick to them through thick and thin against anyone who is their enemy, or who even talks badly of them.
3. A scout 's duty is to be useful and to help others.
And he is to do his duty before everything else, even though he gives up his own pleasure, or comfort, or safety to do it. When in difficulty to know which of two things to do, he must ask himself, "Which is my duty ?" that is, "Which is best for other people?" do that one. He must Be Prepared at any time to save a life, or to help injured persons. And he must do a good turn to somebody every day.
4. A scout is a friend to all, and a brother to every other scout, no matter to what social class the other belongs.
Thus if a scout meets another scout, even though a stranger to him, he must speak to him, and help him in any way that he can, either to carry out the duty he is then doing, or by giving him food, or, as far as possible, anything that he may be in want of. A scout must never be a SNOB. A snob is one who looks down upon another because he is poorer, or who is poor and resents another because he is rich. A scout accepts the other man as he finds him, and makes the best of him.
"Kim," the boy scout, was called by the Indians "Little friend to all the world," and that is the name that every scout should earn for himself.
5. A scout is courteous: That is, he is polite to allÑbut especially to women and children and old people and invalids, cripples, etc. And he must not take any reward for being helpful or courteous.
6. A scout is a friend to animals. He should save them as far as possible from pain, and should not kill any animal unnecessarily, even if it is only a flyÑfor it is one of God's creatures.
7. A scout obeys orders of his patrol leader or scout master without question.
Even if he gets an order he does not like he must do as soldiers and sailors do, he must carry it out all the same because it is his duty; and after he has done it he can come and state any reasons against it: but he must carry out the order at once. That is discipline.
8. A scout smiles and whistles under all circumstances. When he gets an order he should obey it cheerily and readily, not in a slow hang-dog sort of way.
Scouts never grouse at hardships, nor whine at each other, nor swear when put out.
When you just miss a train, or some one treads on your favourite cornnot that a scout ought to have such things as cornsor under any annoying circumstances, you should force yourself to smile at once, and then whistle a tune, and you will be all right.
A scout goes with a smile on and whistling. It cheers him and cheers other people, especially in time of danger, for he keeps it up then all the same.
The punishment for swearing or using bad language is for each offense a mug of cold water to be poured down the offender's sleeve by the other scouts. It was the punishment invented by the old British scout, Captain John Smith, three hundred years ago.
9. A scout is thrifty, that is, he saves every penny he can, and puts it into the bank, so that he may have money to keep himself when out of work, and thus not make himself a burden to others; or that he may have money to give away to others when they need it.
***
======
======
[Commentary by Rosenthal, excerpts]
Several differences between the scout law and the Ten Commandments readily present themselves. In the first place, as we see, there were originally only nine laws. Although Robert Baden-Powell, the founder of the scouts, was as hostile to all forms of sexual indulgence and particularly the dread sin of "selfabuse" as any moralist of the time, his famous exhortation"A scout is pure in thought, word and deed"was not added to the canon until 1911.
[...]
Baden-Powell's concern for or obsession with obedience can be seen in the rather peculiar structural redundancy of the scout oath (later known as the scout promise) and the scout law. Although the law's explicit injunctions to do one's duty and follow orders would seem sufficient to convince even the most skeptical about the reliability of the scouts, Baden-Powell felt he also had to guarantee commitment to the law. Hence the oath, requiring the scout to promise to obey all the strictures of obedience contained in the law. [...]
[...]Not until 1912 were scouts enjoined to show loyalty to their parents, with the new obligation inserted between "officers" and "country." What might seem a peculiar omissionÑparents, after all, constitute a traditional source of moral authorityÑmakes sense in the light of Baden-Powell's assumption that lower-class parents were incapable of exercising proper influence on their children. His conviction that poverty was engendered by the moral fecklessness of the poor implied a need to remove children from the pernicious control of parents who were unable to look after themselves.
When he writes in the first edition of Scouting for Boys that of the two million boys in Great Britain "only 270,000 are under good influences outside their school walls," he implicitly denies that the remaining 1,730,000, who "are drifting towards 'hooliganism" or bad citizenship," receive any adequate training from their indifferent or impoverished parents.
Parents were initially omitted from the list of scout loyalties because Baden-Powell saw them as part of the problem, not the solution. And even if working-class parents were concerned with their sons' development, BadenPowell realized, they would not be likely to teach dutiful acceptance of a status in life with which they themselves were discontent. Scouting thus offered itself not as a complement to but a substitute for misguided or nonexistent home instruction.
[end quote]
from:
Rosenthal, Michael, "Recruiting for the Empire: Baden-Powell's Scout Law", Raritan: A Quarterly Review, Vol. 4, Num. 1, New Brunswick, NJ, 1984
The Original Scout Law (1908)
http://faculty.smu.edu/bwheeler/chivalry/rosenthal.html
[start quote]
THE SCOUT LAW
1. A scout's honour is to be trusted.
If a scout says: "On my honour it is so," that means that it is so, just as if he had taken a most solemn oath.
Similarly, if a scout officer says to a scout, "I trust you on your honour to do this," the scout is bound to carry out the order to the very best of his ability, and to let nothing interfere with his doing so.
If a scout were to break his honour by telling a lie, or by not carrying out an order exactly when trusted on his honour to do so, he would cease to be a scout, and must hand over his scout badge, and never be allowed to wear it againÑlie loses his life.
2. A scout is loyal to the King, and to his officers, and to his country, and to his employers. He must stick to them through thick and thin against anyone who is their enemy, or who even talks badly of them.
3. A scout 's duty is to be useful and to help others.
And he is to do his duty before everything else, even though he gives up his own pleasure, or comfort, or safety to do it. When in difficulty to know which of two things to do, he must ask himself, "Which is my duty ?" that is, "Which is best for other people?" do that one. He must Be Prepared at any time to save a life, or to help injured persons. And he must do a good turn to somebody every day.
4. A scout is a friend to all, and a brother to every other scout, no matter to what social class the other belongs.
Thus if a scout meets another scout, even though a stranger to him, he must speak to him, and help him in any way that he can, either to carry out the duty he is then doing, or by giving him food, or, as far as possible, anything that he may be in want of. A scout must never be a SNOB. A snob is one who looks down upon another because he is poorer, or who is poor and resents another because he is rich. A scout accepts the other man as he finds him, and makes the best of him.
"Kim," the boy scout, was called by the Indians "Little friend to all the world," and that is the name that every scout should earn for himself.
5. A scout is courteous: That is, he is polite to allÑbut especially to women and children and old people and invalids, cripples, etc. And he must not take any reward for being helpful or courteous.
6. A scout is a friend to animals. He should save them as far as possible from pain, and should not kill any animal unnecessarily, even if it is only a flyÑfor it is one of God's creatures.
7. A scout obeys orders of his patrol leader or scout master without question.
Even if he gets an order he does not like he must do as soldiers and sailors do, he must carry it out all the same because it is his duty; and after he has done it he can come and state any reasons against it: but he must carry out the order at once. That is discipline.
8. A scout smiles and whistles under all circumstances. When he gets an order he should obey it cheerily and readily, not in a slow hang-dog sort of way.
Scouts never grouse at hardships, nor whine at each other, nor swear when put out.
When you just miss a train, or some one treads on your favourite cornnot that a scout ought to have such things as cornsor under any annoying circumstances, you should force yourself to smile at once, and then whistle a tune, and you will be all right.
A scout goes with a smile on and whistling. It cheers him and cheers other people, especially in time of danger, for he keeps it up then all the same.
The punishment for swearing or using bad language is for each offense a mug of cold water to be poured down the offender's sleeve by the other scouts. It was the punishment invented by the old British scout, Captain John Smith, three hundred years ago.
9. A scout is thrifty, that is, he saves every penny he can, and puts it into the bank, so that he may have money to keep himself when out of work, and thus not make himself a burden to others; or that he may have money to give away to others when they need it.
***
======
======
[Commentary by Rosenthal, excerpts]
Several differences between the scout law and the Ten Commandments readily present themselves. In the first place, as we see, there were originally only nine laws. Although Robert Baden-Powell, the founder of the scouts, was as hostile to all forms of sexual indulgence and particularly the dread sin of "selfabuse" as any moralist of the time, his famous exhortation"A scout is pure in thought, word and deed"was not added to the canon until 1911.
[...]
Baden-Powell's concern for or obsession with obedience can be seen in the rather peculiar structural redundancy of the scout oath (later known as the scout promise) and the scout law. Although the law's explicit injunctions to do one's duty and follow orders would seem sufficient to convince even the most skeptical about the reliability of the scouts, Baden-Powell felt he also had to guarantee commitment to the law. Hence the oath, requiring the scout to promise to obey all the strictures of obedience contained in the law. [...]
[...]Not until 1912 were scouts enjoined to show loyalty to their parents, with the new obligation inserted between "officers" and "country." What might seem a peculiar omissionÑparents, after all, constitute a traditional source of moral authorityÑmakes sense in the light of Baden-Powell's assumption that lower-class parents were incapable of exercising proper influence on their children. His conviction that poverty was engendered by the moral fecklessness of the poor implied a need to remove children from the pernicious control of parents who were unable to look after themselves.
When he writes in the first edition of Scouting for Boys that of the two million boys in Great Britain "only 270,000 are under good influences outside their school walls," he implicitly denies that the remaining 1,730,000, who "are drifting towards 'hooliganism" or bad citizenship," receive any adequate training from their indifferent or impoverished parents.
Parents were initially omitted from the list of scout loyalties because Baden-Powell saw them as part of the problem, not the solution. And even if working-class parents were concerned with their sons' development, BadenPowell realized, they would not be likely to teach dutiful acceptance of a status in life with which they themselves were discontent. Scouting thus offered itself not as a complement to but a substitute for misguided or nonexistent home instruction.
[end quote]
from:
Rosenthal, Michael, "Recruiting for the Empire: Baden-Powell's Scout Law", Raritan: A Quarterly Review, Vol. 4, Num. 1, New Brunswick, NJ, 1984
Last edited:
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
- Joined
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- Posts
- 15,135
Baden Powell wrote extensively, and his writings reached millions. He did not just state 'Scout Law,' codes, and principles, but gave numerous practical examples. Like other Victorians (S. Smiles) he loved vivid moral tales, like the following:
[Rosenthal's summary, verbatim]
Baden-Powell's favorite example, appearing in a number of his books, including Scouting for Boys, and also in The Citizen Reader, concerns the sinking in 1852 of the Birkenhead, a transport carrying soldiers and their families. As the ship began to break up off the Cape of Good Hope, it was discovered that there were not enough life boats for everyone:
so the men were ordered to remain in their ranks. Then the ship broke in half and began to go down. The captain shouted to the men to jump over and save themselves, but the colonel, Colonel Seaton, said, "No, keep your ranks." For he saw that if they swam to the boats, and tried to get in, they would probably sink them too. So the men kept their ranks, and as the ship rolled over and sank, they gave a cheer and went down with her. Out of the whole 760 on board, only 192 were saved, but even those would probably have been lost had it not been for the discipline and self-sacrifice of the others.
(Commenting on an early gramophone record made to celebrate this heroic moment, British historian V. G. Kiernan caustically notes, "Why they did not swim ashore instead [as a quarter of them did in the end] is a question that only later, smaller minds would think of. This was the parade-ground spirit at its sublimest.")
The exemplary behavior of these British soldiers, dying in disciplined ranks and with a cheer, is amplified by various instances of Japanese self-slaughter which Baden-Powell singles out for praise. In Boy Scouts Beyond the Seas, he tells of fortyseven Japanese ronin who, after avenging the death of their master, commit hara-kiri together. [...]
The extremes to which the Japanese may go to demonstrate loyalty always earn Baden-Powell's admiration. Hara-kiri seems particularly attractive to him as a means of honoring a traditional chivalric code. Commenting on the way some Japanese soldiers in the Russo-Japanese war refused to surrender when overcome by the Russians, he notes that
They did not kill themselves by the easy method of shooting themselves, but by the painful way of disemboweling themselves with their swords. They did this because it was the more honourable way in which the Samurai or Knights of Japan did it.
It is not only soldiers, however, who should give up their lives gladly. In Yarns for Boy Scouts, Baden-Powell recounts the heroism of a Japanese boy whose father was being pursued by bandits. When the bandits finally kill a man whom they believe to be the boy's father, they bring the boy to identify the body. The son realizes that they have killed the wrong man, but he must exhibit sufficient grief to convince the bandits that they did indeed kill his father who is presumably hiding nearby. The most authentic display of despair he can fashion is to kill himselfÑwhich he promptly does. Baden-Powell's approval is unqualified:
Well, he was a plucky boy, wasn't he? He is one example for every boy, and especially every Scout, to follow in Being Prepared to give up all, even his own life if necessary, for the sake of another.
That is what is meant by "Bushido," or selfsacrifice.
Although Japanese models aboundÑwith the seizure of Port Arthur from the Russians in 1904, Japan suddenly thrust itself on British consciousness as the perfect illustration of what unquestioning obedience, fervent patriotism, and compulsory military service could accomplishÑit is not just the Japanese who can give up their lives for someone else.
Consider the case of Currie, a lad of eighteen, who saw a little girl playing on the railway line at Clydebank in front of an approaching train. He tried to rescue her, but he was lame from an injury he had got at football, and it delayed him in getting her clear. The train knocked both of them over, and both were killed.
But Currie's gallant attempt is an example of chivalry for scouts to follow. It was sacrifice of himself in the attempt to save the child. And while dying certainly helps somehow to authenticate the act, loyalty can be demonstrated even by the living, as shown by the behavior on maneuvers of a cadet at Reigate Grammar School, who, when posted as sentry, was accidentially left on his post when the field day was over. But though night came on, and it was very coldÑin November lastÑthe lad stuck to his post till he was found in the middle of the night, half perished with cold, but alive and alert.
Boys who emulate such selfless heroism, along with that of the Light Brigade, Nelson, Sir Ernest Shackelton, General Gordon, and others, have the satisfaction of knowing they are part of that elite corps of "manly" menÑnot just Arthur and his knights or the brave British soldiers and sailors, but also a host of intrepid pioneers and frontiersmen, trappers, and scoutsÑwhom BadenPowell has assembled to appeal to youthful imaginations. By melding them all into an ideal of true masculinity, Baden-Powell makes clear the consequences for those who don't share their values:
[BP:]
Every boy ought to learn how to shoot and to obey orders, else he is no more good when war breaks out than an old woman.
[end Rosenthal's summary of BP examples]
[Rosenthal's summary, verbatim]
Baden-Powell's favorite example, appearing in a number of his books, including Scouting for Boys, and also in The Citizen Reader, concerns the sinking in 1852 of the Birkenhead, a transport carrying soldiers and their families. As the ship began to break up off the Cape of Good Hope, it was discovered that there were not enough life boats for everyone:
so the men were ordered to remain in their ranks. Then the ship broke in half and began to go down. The captain shouted to the men to jump over and save themselves, but the colonel, Colonel Seaton, said, "No, keep your ranks." For he saw that if they swam to the boats, and tried to get in, they would probably sink them too. So the men kept their ranks, and as the ship rolled over and sank, they gave a cheer and went down with her. Out of the whole 760 on board, only 192 were saved, but even those would probably have been lost had it not been for the discipline and self-sacrifice of the others.
(Commenting on an early gramophone record made to celebrate this heroic moment, British historian V. G. Kiernan caustically notes, "Why they did not swim ashore instead [as a quarter of them did in the end] is a question that only later, smaller minds would think of. This was the parade-ground spirit at its sublimest.")
The exemplary behavior of these British soldiers, dying in disciplined ranks and with a cheer, is amplified by various instances of Japanese self-slaughter which Baden-Powell singles out for praise. In Boy Scouts Beyond the Seas, he tells of fortyseven Japanese ronin who, after avenging the death of their master, commit hara-kiri together. [...]
The extremes to which the Japanese may go to demonstrate loyalty always earn Baden-Powell's admiration. Hara-kiri seems particularly attractive to him as a means of honoring a traditional chivalric code. Commenting on the way some Japanese soldiers in the Russo-Japanese war refused to surrender when overcome by the Russians, he notes that
They did not kill themselves by the easy method of shooting themselves, but by the painful way of disemboweling themselves with their swords. They did this because it was the more honourable way in which the Samurai or Knights of Japan did it.
It is not only soldiers, however, who should give up their lives gladly. In Yarns for Boy Scouts, Baden-Powell recounts the heroism of a Japanese boy whose father was being pursued by bandits. When the bandits finally kill a man whom they believe to be the boy's father, they bring the boy to identify the body. The son realizes that they have killed the wrong man, but he must exhibit sufficient grief to convince the bandits that they did indeed kill his father who is presumably hiding nearby. The most authentic display of despair he can fashion is to kill himselfÑwhich he promptly does. Baden-Powell's approval is unqualified:
Well, he was a plucky boy, wasn't he? He is one example for every boy, and especially every Scout, to follow in Being Prepared to give up all, even his own life if necessary, for the sake of another.
That is what is meant by "Bushido," or selfsacrifice.
Although Japanese models aboundÑwith the seizure of Port Arthur from the Russians in 1904, Japan suddenly thrust itself on British consciousness as the perfect illustration of what unquestioning obedience, fervent patriotism, and compulsory military service could accomplishÑit is not just the Japanese who can give up their lives for someone else.
Consider the case of Currie, a lad of eighteen, who saw a little girl playing on the railway line at Clydebank in front of an approaching train. He tried to rescue her, but he was lame from an injury he had got at football, and it delayed him in getting her clear. The train knocked both of them over, and both were killed.
But Currie's gallant attempt is an example of chivalry for scouts to follow. It was sacrifice of himself in the attempt to save the child. And while dying certainly helps somehow to authenticate the act, loyalty can be demonstrated even by the living, as shown by the behavior on maneuvers of a cadet at Reigate Grammar School, who, when posted as sentry, was accidentially left on his post when the field day was over. But though night came on, and it was very coldÑin November lastÑthe lad stuck to his post till he was found in the middle of the night, half perished with cold, but alive and alert.
Boys who emulate such selfless heroism, along with that of the Light Brigade, Nelson, Sir Ernest Shackelton, General Gordon, and others, have the satisfaction of knowing they are part of that elite corps of "manly" menÑnot just Arthur and his knights or the brave British soldiers and sailors, but also a host of intrepid pioneers and frontiersmen, trappers, and scoutsÑwhom BadenPowell has assembled to appeal to youthful imaginations. By melding them all into an ideal of true masculinity, Baden-Powell makes clear the consequences for those who don't share their values:
[BP:]
Every boy ought to learn how to shoot and to obey orders, else he is no more good when war breaks out than an old woman.
[end Rosenthal's summary of BP examples]
Last edited:
sweetnpetite
Intellectual snob
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2003
- Posts
- 9,135
Somme said:
Good idea.
I recomend that the deed be carried out immediatly following the lay-offs. Shoulda been indespensable, now it's your own damn falt you're dead. Gotta off the family too, wouldn't want them to burden the state.
PS I am unemployed.
Svenskaflicka
Fountain
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2002
- Posts
- 16,142
pop_54 said:Never felt any string on my mates in the tent at night love
You're supposed to tie it so it fits snugly, not leave a whole lasso around it!
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