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Slingin' Slang.

If a character is speaking, I think slang is fine. People do speak that way. In my latest submission, I refer to my great grandma talking about wresting. She called it "Wraslin".
 
jaF0 said:
Accents are another thing really hard to convey in print. And you have to try to avoid ethnic stereotypes to make it work.


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Way back then, the nationality of the traveler was said to be Italian, but it would fit with others too. How do you covey overly heavy, hard to understand accents without being offensive?

I don't speak any other languages and have never traveled to any country that speaks anything else, but I'd imagine we do the same sort of thing when trying to speak a language we only know a few words of.
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I've tried an accent or two, but I try to keep it light. Huck Finn has already been mentioned in this thread, and even as a kid I hated that book (and its predecessor) because I found the dialect terribly distracting as a reader. I've developed my sensibilities since then: I can now read and enjoy Irvine Welsh, for example, but not in large doses. To his credit, he usually intersperses more conventional prose with his thick Scots. It has the effect of giving the reader a rest. With Twain, I felt there was no light at the end of the tunnel. Reading it was a chore.

Whenever I read long, heavily accented passages in a Lit story, I always feel obscurely ashamed on the writer's behalf. That's a weird thing to feel, but it's what happens. I'd rather just get a hint or a suggestion.
 
"How do you covey overly heavy, hard to understand accents without being offensive?"
Probably best to put it on the hearer: Unfortunately, all I could make out from the strong unfamiliar accent was what sounded like 'to piss' - it sounded more like 'to peece', but guests always want the restrooms, don't they?

Had a Greek colleague once who asked me, after a few years, why a wheelie bin was called a wheelie bin. (Bin = trash can, most households have one or more that are tall and rectangular and get automatically emptied by the bin lorry)

I looked at them a bit funny and said it's because it's got wheels on. Look of total confusion. "Round things on the bottom called wheels?"
Turned out, they'd thought they were called willy bins and this was some arcane British sexual joke. Proving they'd grasped the local humour if not the difference between shit and sheet...

Or the classic joke that works in a London accent (been sounds like bin)
Bin man: Where's ya bin?
Local: Bin on 'oliday.
Bin man: I knows that, but *where's* ya bin?
Bin to Jamaica.
No, where's ya *wheelie* bin?
Oh. Margate.
Yeah, well don't leave it behind ya gate, put it out in the street like you're meant to, ya lazy bastard!
 
Has anyone ever just made up their own slang, like Anthony Burgess did in A Clockwork Orange?
 
I gave a lot of thought to how to handle my character's Maine accents.

Right at the beginning, I had a little fun with the issue.

"Lobsta," she thought, he actually says "lobsta." She took a big bite. It was delicious, and the look on her face made that obvious.

"Ayuh," he said, exaggerating his accent, "Maine's got her hooks in you now."
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Then I pretty much let it be. People who share an accent don't notice it, so it only comes into play when they speak to outsiders. On occasion, when that happened I'd make note that they had a heavy accent, but other than that, I decided that it was better that the dialogue be comprehensible than authentic.
 
MelissaBaby said:
I gave a lot of thought to how to handle my character's Maine accents.

Right at the beginning, I had a little fun with the issue.



Then I pretty much let it be. People who share an accent don't notice it, so it only comes into play when they speak to outsiders. On occasion, when that happened I'd make note that they had a heavy accent, but other than that, I decided that it was better that the dialogue be comprehensible than authentic.
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I agree. I think it's good to add just enough accent to add the flavor without bogging anyone down. I think it depends on the accent, too. The southern US accent is so well-known that I doubt it slows anyone down unless you lean into it really, really heavily. A Scottish accent, though? I'd go really lightly with that. I think the way Diana Gabaldon did it in Outlander is about as heavy as I'd ever go, and I might even back off a little from that.

My husband and I make up slang at home, especially when we're talking for the cats or dogs, such as one of the cats asks to be fed his "stinkers" (canned cat food), but I've never contemplated putting it in a story. I don't think I would.
 
Enchantment_of_Nyx said:
I agree. I think it's good to add just enough accent to add the flavor without bogging anyone down. I think it depends on the accent, too. The southern US accent is so well-known that I doubt it slows anyone down unless you lean into it really, really heavily. A Scottish accent, though? I'd go really lightly with that. I think the way Diana Gabaldon did it in Outlander is about as heavy as I'd ever go, and I might even back off a little from that.

My husband and I make up slang at home, especially when we're talking for the cats or dogs, such as one of the cats asks to be fed his "stinkers" (canned cat food), but I've never contemplated putting it in a story. I don't think I would.
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The Maine "Ayuh" was what kept me from trying to impart any accent. It can not be written in any way that accurately conveys how it sounds when spoken.

TalkLike A Mainer: Ayuh
 
Enchantment_of_Nyx said:
I agree. I think it's good to add just enough accent to add the flavor without bogging anyone down. I think it depends on the accent, too. The southern US accent is so well-known that I doubt it slows anyone down unless you lean into it really, really heavily. A Scottish accent, though? I'd go really lightly with that. I think the way Diana Gabaldon did it in Outlander is about as heavy as I'd ever go, and I might even back off a little from that.

My husband and I make up slang at home, especially when we're talking for the cats or dogs, such as one of the cats asks to be fed his "stinkers" (canned cat food), but I've never contemplated putting it in a story. I don't think I would.
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When it comes to slang and accents I think of a copy of the Br'er Rabbit tales I had. It was written in the uneducated bad grammar english that Uncle Remus and others spoke. Part's of it were indecipherable. I try not to do that with my dialogue.
 
Salacious_Scribe said:
When it comes to slang and accents I think of a copy of the Br'er Rabbit tales I had. It was written in the uneducated bad grammar english that Uncle Remus and others spoke. Part's of it were indecipherable. I try not to do that with my dialogue.
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I had that book, too. I really enjoyed it. I know it's been called racist, but I don't really see that in it. As far as I'm aware, the charge that it was racist was based only on the dialect. I've never seen it said that the dialect was an inaccurate representation.

It does demonstrate one of the dangers of adopting dialects.
 
Enchantment_of_Nyx said:
I had that book, too. I really enjoyed it. I know it's been called racist, but I don't really see that in it. As far as I'm aware, the charge that it was racist was based only on the dialect. I've never seen it said that the dialect was an inaccurate representation.

It does demonstrate one of the dangers of adopting dialects.
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I love the stories, but the way that book was written was beyoond unreadable. I have a plain english copy written informally but readable. When a single word has more apostrophes than letters the writer/editor went very very wrong somewhere.
 
I spent some if my younger uears living in an abandoned (except for me) buiding in South Centnral Los Angeles. The word 'motherfucker' was a nofrmak part of the local patois. Insulting racial, gender and sexual orientation terms were also a part of usual conversation. I be knowed as 'Whi' Boy.' Then I enforced the use of 'SIR.' Finally the autochtones labeled me with the tittle 'Wilie Green.'
I don't use the South Central patois in my stories, since "If I really say it, the radio won't play it."
 
lovecraft68 said:
It'll go through fine. What's hard to do sometimes is maintain consistency. If your character is going to say "gonna, gotta nothin'" then they need to do it throughout...a person who speaks like that can't suddenly turn into a professional speaker part way through the story then revert back.
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Well, there's always code-switching. People change their dialogue, depending on where they are. You might say, "Fuckin' A. This plan went tits up pretty fast." when among friends, but in a professional setting, you'd say, "Well, that didn't go as planned."

And sometimes there are very unconscious changes. I spent a lot of my formative years in Maine. Now, I don't start dropping 'r's until I'm either drunk or talking to friends from back east, and I'm all "Pa'k the ca' in Hava'd ya'd" pretty damn quick.

But my internal monologue doesn't change. Swear like a sailor. ... Now that I think about it, my inner monologue doesn't have an accent. But I do believe if you're doing any peak inside a character's head, either 1st person or 3rd person omniscience, that should be consistent throughout.

But over-all 'proper' English is kinda bullshit. Communication is a two-way street. Now, if you've varied too much from the standard (at the time you're writing), you might lose some audiences. But English is a living, evolving language. Try reading Chaucer in the original Old-English.

The meaning of a word changes over time. Pixelated used to be bewitched/befuddled: As in pixies were fucking with you. New words are made every day. And anyone who says you can't use "made-up words" should look up Neologism in the dictionary.

This is a long-winded way of saying, the rules are arbitrary. You only guide should be are you effectively communicating your idea to the audience you're aiming for. (Look I just did the bad thing of ending a sentence in a preposition.)
 
Enchantment_of_Nyx said:
The southern US accent is so well-known that I doubt it slows anyone down unless you lean into it really, really heavily. A Scottish accent, though? I'd go really lightly with that.
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That's a matter of perspective! Your average Brit will probably feel the opposite. Does make a difference between film/TV and books - the former will make accent more of a deal, whereas dialect words will be more of a potential barrier in writing.
 
Kumquatqueen said:
"How do you covey overly heavy, hard to understand accents without being offensive?"
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With a very light touch, I think. I think that's a good general rule for writing accents and dialects. Don't overdo. A few words here and there, a few apostrophes in place of a litter once in a while, will do the trick. The reader's brain will do the rest of the work.

MelissaBaby's example of "ayuh" and "lobsta" would be two good examples. If you have a little bit of that sort of think sprinkled in once in a while you don't have to do anymore.
 
Kumquatqueen said:
That's a matter of perspective! Your average Brit will probably feel the opposite. Does make a difference between film/TV and books - the former will make accent more of a deal, whereas dialect words will be more of a potential barrier in writing.
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Oh, I was talking accents, not the whole dialect. I'd be careful about throwing substitute words in, no matter what the region was. But I assumed the US Southern accent would be pretty easy:

Oh, I was talkin' accents, not whole dialect. I'd be careful 'bout throwin' substitute words in, no matter what the region was. But I assumed the US Southern accent would be purty easy​
.

It's not?

Even going whole dialect seems pretty cognizable as long as you don't use substitute words:

Oh, honey, I was jus' talkin' accents, not the whole darn dialect. I'd be careful 'bout throwin' any substitute words in, though, no matter the region. But you know, I assumed a United States Southern accent would be easy for anyone.​
.

Or does it just seem easy to me because I'm used to it?
 
HeyYoureThatGuy said:
Well, there's always code-switching. People change their dialogue, depending on where they are. You might say, "Fuckin' A. This plan went tits up pretty fast." when among friends, but in a professional setting, you'd say, "Well, that didn't go as planned."

And sometimes there are very unconscious changes. I spent a lot of my formative years in Maine. Now, I don't start dropping 'r's until I'm either drunk or talking to friends from back east, and I'm all "Pa'k the ca' in Hava'd ya'd" pretty damn quick.

But my internal monologue doesn't change. Swear like a sailor. ... Now that I think about it, my inner monologue doesn't have an accent. But I do believe if you're doing any peak inside a character's head, either 1st person or 3rd person omniscience, that should be consistent throughout.

But over-all 'proper' English is kinda bullshit. Communication is a two-way street. Now, if you've varied too much from the standard (at the time you're writing), you might lose some audiences. But English is a living, evolving language. Try reading Chaucer in the original Old-English.

The meaning of a word changes over time. Pixelated used to be bewitched/befuddled: As in pixies were fucking with you. New words are made every day. And anyone who says you can't use "made-up words" should look up Neologism in the dictionary.

This is a long-winded way of saying, the rules are arbitrary. You only guide should be are you effectively communicating your idea to the audience you're aiming for. (Look I just did the bad thing of ending a sentence in a preposition.)
Click to expand...

I'm a Maine girl living in Detroit, where I married into a Black family. I find myself code switching all the time. For a while, I was self conscious about it, concerned that my in-laws might think I was mocking or condescending to them. The truth is, they saw it as me losing what they considered a very weird accent.

Like you, my accent has faded, but when the phone rings and it's my mother on the line, my r's all disappear and my vowels are all three letters long and it's all "ain't that cunnin'" and "that's a wicked pissa."
 
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Enchantment_of_Nyx said:
But you know, I assumed a United States Southern accent would be easy for anyone.[/INDENT].

Or does it just seem easy to me because I'm used to it?
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It's what you're used to!

I'm not the only person I know who needed subtitles for True Blood (that counts as Southern US, right? I know Texas technically isn't, but we got exposed to Dallas in the 80s). Obviously we get lots more exposure to American films and TV than you get British stuff, but even so I find accents that aren't Your Typical American Newsreader tricky and couldn't distinguish any beyond say Texan, Southern, her from Fargo what sounds like my aunt, and New York and New England (doubt I could distinguish those last two).

While every time I hear 'she had a British accent' I'm leaping up and down going 'can't you at least tell Northern English, Southern English, Welsh and Scottish are different, not to mention Estuary, West Country, and Glaswegian?' But I've had enough American friends and colleagues to know most really can't, not until they've been here a few years.
 
Kumquatqueen said:
It's what you're used to!

I'm not the only person I know who needed subtitles for True Blood (that counts as Southern US, right? I know Texas technically isn't, but we got exposed to Dallas in the 80s). Obviously we get lots more exposure to American films and TV than you get British stuff, but even so I find accents that aren't Your Typical American Newsreader tricky and couldn't distinguish any beyond say Texan, Southern, her from Fargo what sounds like my aunt, and New York and New England (doubt I could distinguish those last two).

While every time I hear 'she had a British accent' I'm leaping up and down going 'can't you at least tell Northern English, Southern English, Welsh and Scottish are different, not to mention Estuary, West Country, and Glaswegian?' But I've had enough American friends and colleagues to know most really can't, not until they've been here a few years.
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This is a great point. A lot of Americans assume every Brit sounds like James Bond. When I learned about RP, it was a real eye-opener for me, and a fascinating glimpse into the lingering importance of class over there.

I take pride in being able to ID the main English accents, but I know I'm nowhere near as good as a native must be.
 
Kumquatqueen said:
'can't you at least tell Northern English, Southern English, Welsh and Scottish are different, not to mention Estuary, West Country, and Glaswegian?' But I've had enough American friends and colleagues to know most really can't, not until they've been here a few years.
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There's only two types of British accents. The hoity toity Prof. Henry Higgins and the Eliza Doolittle dropping H's like the plague version.

Welsh and Scottish are Celtic accents. Glaswegian accents are Scottish. :D:D:D
 
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