So many celebrity deaths...

[satindesire]

So much cynicism and pessimism in this thread. Geeze, guys, these are HUMAN BEINGS with families that cared about them. Human beings with feelings, emotions, souls, hopes and dreams that should have mattered to someone.

I'm not saying you all have to be all kids of broken up about the celebrities dying, but having a few good positive thoughts or prayers for their families. You know, compassion? Empathy? Anything, no? Not getting through?

I hope you all are not like this about everything in the world. Man.

 

[FurryFury]

Yes, but it should have been written in what happened to the kittens!

That's my gripe! Don't put animals on the screen and then have them disappear.

Given that Miss Kitty was a rescue, one could probably presume that her babies were adopted out to good families - probably a number of them among the cast and crew (if she actually *had* them and it wasn't just a storyline. I missed the season where she had kittens, so I never saw her with them).

ETA: Your question made me curious, FF, so I found producer James Duff's blog and asked. I'll let you know what response I get.
Actually... no. I didn't like Mr. Rogers or his message. I thought he was a bad example, trying to convince kids that everything is sweetness and light. Sorry, but I believe that kids should know that not everything in life turns out for the best, that they should *hope* for it, but not expect it, and not be devastated when things turn out less than had been hoped for. Sort of a reality point of view, if you know what I mean. Maybe that makes me a bad person; I dunno.

 

[FurryFury]

So much cynicism and pessimism in this thread. Geeze, guys, these are HUMAN BEINGS with families that cared about them. Human beings with feelings, emotions, souls, hopes and dreams that should have mattered to someone.

I'm not saying you all have to be all kids of broken up about the celebrities dying, but having a few good positive thoughts or prayers for their families. You know, compassion? Empathy? Anything, no? Not getting through?

I hope you all are not like this about everything in the world. Man.

In general, I do have compassion for individual people going through loss because I've been through loss and it's difficult. We are not taught in this society how to grieve. Our death rituals all seem based on denying death or being afraid of it. That's not healthy for anyone. Death is a natural and expected outcome of life.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

*blink*

Have you watched any other TV programming for kids? It has been more "realistic" lately, but only on limited shows. Mr Rogers at least tried to teach kids to use their imagination, as well as get along with others. It was not just fast movement, bright colours, and rapid camera cuts like most kids shows.

Yeah, I have watched other programs for kids, most recently stuff like Sponge Bob, etc. I pretty much feel the same way about their message. Yeah, Mr. Rogers did try to teach them to use their imaginations, etc., but I'm just too much of a grump to approve of someone who was *always* perky and chirpy, etc. Even the Lambchop lady - can't remember her name - sorta cute, but waaaay to perky/chirpy/happy. Damn it all, NO ONE is happy all the time... unless they're confined to a funny farm - and a good part of that "happiness" is chemical induced.

 

[FurryFury]

What about Mr Rogers? Tell me you (Americans) weren't sad when Mr Rogers died.

I was sad but not as sad (and angry), as when they stopped showing Mr. Rodgers Neighborhood on PBS.

*sniffle*

 

[FurryFury]

Yeah, I have watched other programs for kids, most recently stuff like Sponge Bob, etc. I pretty much feel the same way about their message. Yeah, Mr. Rogers did try to teach them to use their imaginations, etc., but I'm just too much of a grump to approve of someone who was *always* perky and chirpy, etc. Even the Lambchop lady - can't remember her name - sorta cute, but waaaay to perky/chirpy/happy. Damn it all, NO ONE is happy all the time... unless they're confined to a funny farm - and a good part of that "happiness" is chemical induced.

Sherry Lewis! She lives on! How? In Lamb Chop and others! And in The Song That NEVER ends!

 

[Sir_Winston54]

So much cynicism and pessimism in this thread. Geeze, guys, these are HUMAN BEINGS with families that cared about them. Human beings with feelings, emotions, souls, hopes and dreams that should have mattered to someone.

I'm not saying you all have to be all kids of broken up about the celebrities dying, but having a few good positive thoughts or prayers for their families. You know, compassion? Empathy? Anything, no? Not getting through?

I hope you all are not like this about everything in the world. Man.

I do have some compassion for their families. I just don't understand, like someone else recently mentioned, the people who absolutely go *nuts* over the death of someone they never met and probably never got within touching distance of, and may have only seen on the tube or the big screen, e.g. Princess Diana, Heath Ledger, Paul Harvey...

Yeah, I'm not happy that they died, but for goodness' sake, people, let's turn some of that compassion and grief and *energy* spent on people that aren't within sixteen degrees of you, much less six, toward something you can actually affect, like building homes for Habitat for Humanity, or volunteering at a hospital, etc., etc., etc!

When those celebrities with whose reputation/work/whatever I'm familiar pass on, yeah, I think, oh, that's too bad. They were good at xyz. But I'm not going to build a shrine to them in my walk-in closet or tear my clothes and sprinkle ashes in my hair.

ETA: One exception to the above: John Kennedy. That upset me a *lot.*
ETA2: Not John-John. The President.

 

[nh23]

*blink*

Have you watched any other TV programming for kids? It has been more "realistic" lately, but only on limited shows. Mr Rogers at least tried to teach kids to use their imagination, as well as get along with others. It was not just fast movement, bright colours, and rapid camera cuts like most kids shows.

I have no idea if this is true, but someone told me once that Mr. Rogers was an ex navy seal. And the reason he wore those long sweaters was because his arms were covered in tattoo's. Only made me like him more.

 

[Homburg]

Yeah, I have watched other programs for kids, most recently stuff like Sponge Bob, etc. I pretty much feel the same way about their message. Yeah, Mr. Rogers did try to teach them to use their imaginations, etc., but I'm just too much of a grump to approve of someone who was *always* perky and chirpy, etc.

I was born about an hour from Pittsburgh, and have family all over that area. Mr Rogers was the sort of guy that was out in the city a lot, and a LOT of people that I know have met him, talked with him at length, and dealt with him. He really was that nice, happy, and friendly in person. If anything, they said he was even nicer. I have not spoken with one person that met that had a cross word to say about the man.

He really is that well-loved in that area. Moreover, he managed to do it without being insufferable. I'm a pretty cynical person, and not that happy with people that are that nice, but I'm talking about people that are worse than I am going on about how genuine he was.

And Sponge Bob is cancerous brain rot compared to Mr Rogers.

 

[Netzach]

ETA: Your question made me curious, FF, so I found producer James Duff's blog and asked. I'll let you know what response I get.
Actually... no. I didn't like Mr. Rogers or his message. I thought he was a bad example, trying to convince kids that everything is sweetness and light. Sorry, but I believe that kids should know that not everything in life turns out for the best, that they should *hope* for it, but not expect it, and not be devastated when things turn out less than had been hoped for. Sort of a reality point of view, if you know what I mean. Maybe that makes me a bad person; I dunno.

Were we watching the same thing?

I hate freaking BARNEY for that reason.

Mr. Rogers was like, it's OK to be mad or sad. Here are constructive ways to be mad. People and pets die sometimes. There's a lot of conflict and a lot of very healthy WASP-Y mild ways to deal with it. There were a lot of "wow, that's disappointing" moments.

For someone being raised by wolves, The Electric Company was like more screaming, oh fuck no. Mr. Rogers was my first indication that anything could be different.

On topic, few celebrity deaths really bum me out, because I see few movies and TV, more than "oh, bummer that's a shame." The Heath Ledger one bummed me out because I think we were just getting a peek at the degree to which this guy was truly talented, and I don't mean the Joker.

I mean I feel basic levels of compassion and sad for families, but I'm not kicked in the gut.

Author death bums me out. It's like a book ending times 1000. When Infinite Jest dude or Tony Hillerman check out, it's knowing you can't read anything new or more.

 

[Homburg]

Were we watching the same thing?

I hate freaking BARNEY for that reason.

Mr. Rogers was like, it's OK to be mad or sad. Here are constructive ways to be mad. People and pets die sometimes. There's a lot of conflict and a lot of very healthy WASP-Y mild ways to deal with it. There were a lot of "wow, that's disappointing" moments.

For someone being raised by wolves, The Electric Company was like more screaming, oh fuck no. Mr. Rogers was my first indication that anything could be different.

I think that's part of my problem with it. I remember Mr Rogers talking about disappointment, death, anger, violence, etc all in ways a kid could deal with.

On topic, few celebrity deaths really bum me out, because I see few movies and TV, more than "oh, bummer that's a shame." The Heath Ledger one bummed me out because I think we were just getting a peek at the degree to which this guy was truly talented, and I don't mean the Joker.

While he did better stuff, I thought what he did with the Joker was amazing. Talk about thoroughly owning a role and remaking it into something great.

Author death bums me out. It's like a book ending times 1000. When Infinite Jest dude or Tony Hillerman check out, it's knowing you can't read anything new or more.

This was a solid part of my issue with Johnny Cash. Yeah, his voice was rough at the end, but he was cranking out some really emotionally dense albums even as his body was failing. When he died, I knew that I was not going to hear anything more from him.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I was born about an hour from Pittsburgh, and have family all over that area. Mr Rogers was the sort of guy that was out in the city a lot, and a LOT of people that I know have met him, talked with him at length, and dealt with him. He really was that nice, happy, and friendly in person. If anything, they said he was even nicer. I have not spoken with one person that met that had a cross word to say about the man.

He really is that well-loved in that area. Moreover, he managed to do it without being insufferable. I'm a pretty cynical person, and not that happy with people that are that nice, but I'm talking about people that are worse than I am going on about how genuine he was.

And Sponge Bob is cancerous brain rot compared to Mr Rogers.

Were we watching the same thing?

I hate freaking BARNEY for that reason.

Mr. Rogers was like, it's OK to be mad or sad. Here are constructive ways to be mad. People and pets die sometimes. There's a lot of conflict and a lot of very healthy WASP-Y mild ways to deal with it. There were a lot of "wow, that's disappointing" moments.

For someone being raised by wolves, The Electric Company was like more screaming, oh fuck no. Mr. Rogers was my first indication that anything could be different....

Author death bums me out. It's like a book ending times 1000. When Infinite Jest dude or Tony Hillerman check out, it's knowing you can't read anything new or more.

Maybe I didn't watch enough of Mr. R. I don't recall having seen/heard those things on the occasions I watched it. But then, I didn't pay much attention because I didn't like his chirpiness.

Re author death, yeah, definitely. I hate hate hate learning that an author I've enjoyed has passed. I mourn the books they'll never write that I'll never get to read.

 

[nh23]

I have no idea if this is true, but someone told me once that Mr. Rogers was an ex navy seal. And the reason he wore those long sweaters was because his arms were covered in tattoo's. Only made me like him more.

Well crap. It's an urban legend.

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/kangaroo.html

 

[Netzach]

I think that's part of my problem with it. I remember Mr Rogers talking about disappointment, death, anger, violence, etc all in ways a kid could deal with.



While he did better stuff, I thought what he did with the Joker was amazing. Talk about thoroughly owning a role and remaking it into something great.



This was a solid part of my issue with Johnny Cash. Yeah, his voice was rough at the end, but he was cranking out some really emotionally dense albums even as his body was failing. When he died, I knew that I was not going to hear anything more from him.

Oh that's a good one. I'm totally with you.

The only sweet note is I think he's with June. Even if I otherwise am a cynic who doesn't believe one iota in such things.

 

[DVS]

.....

 

[Netzach]

Once you found it was an urban legend, I thought you might be thinking of Bob Keeshan, who was Captain Kangaroo. Of course, it depends on how old you are. You have to be a baby boomer to remember Captain Kangaroo.

It's strange, there is a story that actor Lee Marvin, who was in the marines, and injured in WW II, told this story. He mentioned a highly decorated sergeant had come up to him and offered him a smoke. And that sergeant had been Bob Keeshan.

Now, I read both stories, Lee Marvin's and Bob Keeshan's, and both say that Marvin and Keeshan didn't serve together in the war, and that Marvin didn't mention the above story on the Tonight Show, with Johnny Carson.

I thought that was strange because he did tell the story on the Tonight Show. I was watching it that night. Marvin mentioned that he was injured (shot in the buttocks) and lying on his stomach on a stretcher, waiting to be evacuated out of the area.

He said a decorated sergeant in the Marines came up to him and offered him a smoke and that sergeant was none other than Bob Keeshan. He then said that most people would know him better as Captain Kangaroo.

It's so strange that both Wikipedia stories say this didn't happen, but I know for a fact that it did. In fact, I can remember it was just at the end of the talk he and Johnny were having and at the end, just before they went to a commercial, he told that story.

Now, is the story true? That I can't say, but I do know Marvin DID say this. It just goes to show you that not everything you read on Wikipedia is true. And maybe Marvin wasn't telling the truth, although I don't know why he would have to lie.

Now you all think I'm loony...I know. But it did happen.

I absolutely remember Captain Kangaroo, as Bob Keeshan was still doing his thing for us kids of the seventies, but only very vaguely. Was there ever a different Captain or did his look used to be a blue jacket and not red or something?

 

[FurryFury]

Yes, Mr. Rodger's did deal with emotions and coping.

I liked The Electric Company though and the old Zoom! LOL!

When an author dies, it makes me sad. I also hate that certain books won't be written.

Ledger's death again points out just how dangerous legal drugs and mixing them can be. That can't be stated enough for people these days when Docs are always throwing meds at every problem and NOT listening.

Were we watching the same thing?

I hate freaking BARNEY for that reason.

Mr. Rogers was like, it's OK to be mad or sad. Here are constructive ways to be mad. People and pets die sometimes. There's a lot of conflict and a lot of very healthy WASP-Y mild ways to deal with it. There were a lot of "wow, that's disappointing" moments.

For someone being raised by wolves, The Electric Company was like more screaming, oh fuck no. Mr. Rogers was my first indication that anything could be different.

On topic, few celebrity deaths really bum me out, because I see few movies and TV, more than "oh, bummer that's a shame." The Heath Ledger one bummed me out because I think we were just getting a peek at the degree to which this guy was truly talented, and I don't mean the Joker.

I mean I feel basic levels of compassion and sad for families, but I'm not kicked in the gut.

Author death bums me out. It's like a book ending times 1000. When Infinite Jest dude or Tony Hillerman check out, it's knowing you can't read anything new or more.

 

[DVS]

.....

 

[DVS]

.....

 

[nh23]

Nope never heard of Captain Kangaroo DVS.

 

[shy slave]

Nope never heard of Captain Kangaroo DVS.

I had a Captian Kangaroo LP, which I loved when I was about 6-7 yrs old.

But I have never heard of Mr Rogers.

 

[Homburg]

Oh that's a good one. I'm totally with you.

The only sweet note is I think he's with June. Even if I otherwise am a cynic who doesn't believe one iota in such things.

As I've mentioned before, I'm a non-believer. Yet, cases like this, I want to believe. If there is a heaven, it would be a shitty, shitty place if Johnny and June weren't together in it. It wouldn't be worthy of the name.

And if there is a heaven, every good cat and dog and hamster and the rest of the pets that bring such joy into our lives had better goddamned well be there too.

 

[catalina_francisco]

So much cynicism and pessimism in this thread. Geeze, guys, these are HUMAN BEINGS with families that cared about them. Human beings with feelings, emotions, souls, hopes and dreams that should have mattered to someone.

I'm not saying you all have to be all kids of broken up about the celebrities dying, but having a few good positive thoughts or prayers for their families. You know, compassion? Empathy? Anything, no? Not getting through?

I hope you all are not like this about everything in the world. Man.

I'm sort of with you, but also get the cynicism as it is the way the world is programmed to be, in addition to our fucked up society which teaches and trains us from babyhood upward to learn to mask and bury your emotions or be shamed for them. LOL, unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), for some of us no amount of trying can manage to bury those emotions which are very real and also as much a part of us as our vital organs....and where I am concerned, it is one of the things which attracted F to me from the very beginning. Of course, we also live in the age of technology which is distancing people from personal contact and emotion more every day.

So why people are so moved when people such as Diana, John Lennon and MJ die is simple as far as I am concerned...and yes, unique as we do not see such public outpouring of emotions for other people in the public eye, just a few. The reason? Because they were real people. Unlike the rest of the celebrity and public world, they had real emotions and were not afraid to show them, nor to speak out against the injustices and shortcomings of the world and then actually do something about it instead of criticise and lament while uselessly wringing their hands and saying, 'but what can you do?' as so many do.

You did not have to be their family or best friend to know who they were and what they felt in their heart, and stood for. They also did not let public scrutiny and peer pressure stop them from doing what they felt was right, and they gave of themselves, physically, emotionally, spiritually, and financially to try and make a difference while many just sit and judge while offering nothing worthwhile to anyone they do not see themselves as being able to personally gain from. So many in the public eye have lovely rehearsed responses to everything, have bland plastic expression and words, and basically are empty on the inside...these people did not and were not.

So yes, when they die, for me my first grief is for their children, more so than their families as a whole. I feel for what those children will and are going through. I do not see that as odd, nor something you should only feel if you personally know someone very well...it is called being human. My second grief is for the loss to the world of all that person was. In the instance of MJ, for his remarkable talent which I selfishly would have loved to see continue, but also for his vast humanitarian acts, both those which were highly publicised and those which were more private and for some such as Will.i.am of Black Eyed Peas who has spoken of MJ's calls to him on Father's Day each year because he knew he did not have a father and thought of him on those occasions, have begun to become public.

That is a unique person who was very special and thought beyond his own private wants and needs to how others might be feeling and may be helped, and even when he was going through his own private and public hell. There are a long list of people he helped...one was Wade Pobson from near where I lived in Oz....he and his mother were huge MJ fans and MJ assisted their move to the US and also his efforts to begin what is now a thriving career for both himself and his mother in the US. Yanno, he didn't have to do those things for the many he did help quietly along the way, but he did because he cared about people, and for that he was practically crucified for being bizarre...so yes, those people do see it as bizarre and questionable as they would never begin to understand why someone would feel and do such things. It is sad.

And though I could say my third level of grief is simply for the person it is not so simply that as I feel they are somewhere where they no longer will be continuously judged and made to feel pain. Do I curse having the emotions I have, tears coming over beautiful music or art, or a gorgeous sunset etc., or just knowing how much F loves me? Yes, often, but really if the alternative is to not feel such depths and never shed a tear and wonder at the emotions of those who do, I will keep the unpredictable tears and pain, the delight in those things which touch me deeply on a daily basis, and pity those who sit in judgment and shake their heads in puzzlement as they are the ones who are poorer IMO for never knowing such moments.

Catalina

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Yet another celeb...

Steve McNair Found Dead
Posted: July 4, 2009 04:07 PM EDT
Updated: July 4, 2009 07:02 PM EDT
NASHVILLE, Tenn. - Former Titans quarterback Steve McNair has been killed. Police said McNair suffered a fatal gunshot wound to the head in downtown Nashville. The incident happened near 2nd Avenue South & Lea Avenue in a residence Steve McNair was renting.​

More at the online story, linked in the headline.

 

[MisterSir]

And this is so much worse than the others because Air McNair was a fucking Raven, the toughest bastard to play quarterback in years. Shit, if he weren't retired he could probably play through that as well.

And now Jerry Lawler's reported as being in critical condition after being in a car crash.