Splitting dialogue

[liliput1]

I avoid it completely but then again my characters rarely have long speeches that would need changes in paragraphs.

Honestly, I also hate reading it. I'd much prefer the speech to be interspersed with action.

I also think using plain 'he said', 'she said' dialogue tags is much better than the reader having to notice that the writer didn't close the quotation marks and so it's the same person speaking.

And then you have readers who wouldn't know what this meant.

I only came across it here on Lit and that's after years of writing and taking a few writing courses. It was never mentioned.

I accept a long speech when someone's mind needs to be changed. So if the monologue is persuasive, I'm happy to read it. If nothing changes at the end, or later after the other character has had time to process it, then I'm with you.

 

[Duil2]

I accept a long speech when someone's mind needs to be changed. So if the monologue is persuasive, I'm happy to read it. If nothing changes at the end, or later after the other character has had time to process it, then I'm with you.

So, I'm happy to read a long speech if it's necessary for the story, and if the writer feels it's long enough to need separate paragraphs, fair enough. I'd just prefer that the new paragraphs be done with dialogue tags, action interludes but not using the missing quotation mark thingy.
I'm easily confused and pulled out of stories and I hate when my immersive experience is broken.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I wonder how many people (at least younger ones) are unaware of the convention about a paragraph with a missing " at the end.

How common is such ignorance? Did you know this convention? Do you avoid splitting dialogue to avoid this?

I do it on occasion, not often. No-one has ever commented, so my readers either know the convention or if they don't, they're not paying much attention, or are not bothered. I'd never not do it, just because some readers may not know the convention. That's their issue, not mine.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Where I usually get tripped up on this is when one of the people in the conversation only reacts with body language and no verbal response. Then the next three lines of dialog are ambiguous about who is who, and suddenly you find dialog that must belong to one character and you've read it in the voice of the other, and now you have to back up and figure out when you swapped them. It's kinda jarring, and I think you need stage directions for that.

Absolutely. If there's any chance of ambiguity as to who is speaking, a road sign is essential. It's easy enough with an action tag, or a he said she said, when you need it, but you don't need it every time.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I use the technique frequently in my novels, but not to indicate a pause. I use it when the speaker is continuing their dialogue, but on a different matter than in the previous paragraph:

“They’ve been each other’s rock,” Lindsey admitted. “I have heard them crying and being supportive of each other in their rooms, but so far, they have kept their grief just between sisters. We have talked together some about the future, and I have tried to reassure them that I will always take care of them and protect them. I know though, that me not being able to provide them with specific answers for questions such as ‘where will we live’, bothers them.

“They have also shared how much they hate the attention from people over their mom’s death and their desire not to be treated as if they were ‘broken or something’. That is my biggest concern about bringing them to the celebration.”

I believe that dialogue tags, or the lack of them, are where most readers get lost.

 

[TheLobster]

I use it when the speaker is continuing their dialogue, but on a different matter than in the previous paragraph:

This is a great example of correct usage of this technique. Even if the reader is unfamiliar with it, or misses the opening quote or the fact the closing quote is missing, the whole speech is long enough and rich in context between those two paragraphs that it’s obvious it’s the same person speaking without any punctuation.

It’s when you’re trying to be cheeky with short paragraphs in dialogue, like you’d sometimes write in narration, that this gets confusing and speech/action tags are needed.

 

[Britva415]

On my recently published story, Casual Wednesday, I received this comment:

I liked the story, but had a little trouble reading it. In a conversation, a change of paragraph generally indicates a change in person talking. Several times, I had to stop and reread in order to get enough context to determine which lady was speaking. It disturbed the flow of enjoying the story.

On checking the text, I realised the person was referring to breaks in dialogue where, although it was the same person speaking, I had started a new paragraph to indicate a pause. I was taught to indicate this by not closing the preceding paragraph with a double quote, which is what I had done. I posted a comment pointing this out.

This morning, I had another comment:

I wonder how many people (at least younger ones) are unaware of the convention about a paragraph with a missing " at the end.

How common is such ignorance? Did you know this convention? Do you avoid splitting dialogue to avoid this?

I don't consider that splitting, and I do know the convention.

A para break alone shouldn't be used to indicate a pause, imo. It should be used to indicate the paragraph composition of what they're saying. To indicate a pause, I would 100% use a speech marker or otherwise use non-spoken narration to tell about the pause and about who's speaking when they resume. THIS is what I consider splitting. And, yes, that probably also comes with a new paragraph, and it certainly comes with close-quote punctuation before the pause.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I don't consider that splitting, and I do know the convention.

A para break alone shouldn't be used to indicate a pause, imo. It should be used to indicate the paragraph composition of what they're saying. To indicate a pause, I would 100% use a speech marker or otherwise use non-spoken narration to tell about the pause and about who's speaking when they resume. THIS is what I consider splitting. And, yes, that probably also comes with a new paragraph, and it certainly comes with close-quote punctuation before the pause.

I suspect if a writer knows the convention, they would know how to use it intelligently, or they wouldn't use it at all. If readers don't know the convention, there's not much you can do about that, other than use it intelligently and maybe they'll learn.

 

[TheLobster]

A para break alone shouldn't be used to indicate a pause, imo.

Yup. And this applies to narration, too. Paragraph breaks can actually be used to speed up the narrative, just like multiple successive short sentences can, up to and including the extreme that is this galloping beauty by @burgwad.

 

[usable001]

I cannot see any split other than switching to a different speaker for a moment.

Let me back up and review. Each of my posts veered a little farther and farther away from what we were talking about.

First, you were correct that your paragraphs were punctuated correctly for a single speaker who continues speaking across multiple paragraphs. However, I pointed out that something can be technically correct and still confusing.
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/splitting-dialogue.1657179/#post-103126416

I then took those exact two paragraphs and turned them into dialogue with action tags (edited bold to make the difference more obvious)
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/splitting-dialogue.1657179/post-103126472

Beechleaf commented, "In theory you could have one speaker speaking multiple paragraphs. In practice, find ways of avoiding this."
To which I replied that one of my favorite passages features one speaker dominating the conversation (although the actual passage wasn't as one-sided or as long as I remembered). In addition, instead of a character doing something as meaningless as wandering around a stage, I gave her something meaningful to do in a place where she could interact with her environment.
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/splitting-dialogue.1657179/post-103126512

Fourth, I expanded on "something to do," noting that what a character does (Count Adhemar flirting) can also serve an important purpose within the story, separate from what the character says (Count Adhemar explaining the rules of jousting).
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/splitting-dialogue.1657179/post-103126558

Fifth, when you pointed out that my story wasn't clear, I tracked down the specific passage I was referring to and posted it, along with a stripped-down version. Unfortunately, the passage was too long to show what I wanted you to see. I also made a call-back to the original post by pointing out that who is speaking is also clear in the stripped-down version. I failed to point out that the knife play served a different function: it spread out a very dense info dump into discrete, easier-to-digest sentences (edited bold for emphasis).
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/splitting-dialogue.1657179/post-103126723

 

[SimonDoom]

On my recently published story, Casual Wednesday, I received this comment:

I liked the story, but had a little trouble reading it. In a conversation, a change of paragraph generally indicates a change in person talking. Several times, I had to stop and reread in order to get enough context to determine which lady was speaking. It disturbed the flow of enjoying the story.

On checking the text, I realised the person was referring to breaks in dialogue where, although it was the same person speaking, I had started a new paragraph to indicate a pause. I was taught to indicate this by not closing the preceding paragraph with a double quote, which is what I had done. I posted a comment pointing this out.

This morning, I had another comment:

I wonder how many people (at least younger ones) are unaware of the convention about a paragraph with a missing " at the end.

How common is such ignorance? Did you know this convention? Do you avoid splitting dialogue to avoid this?

You can only do so much to accommodate ignorance.

I read the story, and I agree with your reader that you could have made it clearer who is speaking. It's not a huge problem, but clarity could be improved. I don't think the convention regarding quotation marks is the main problem. I think you could have signaled the speaker more clearly.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I wouldn't interpret a new paragraph as a pause, but either a change in speaker or a change in subject.

I know of the convention that a long speech of multiple paragraphs doesn't close the inverted commas, but it's so rarely seen in text from the last 50 years that I avoid doing it. Almost always, some marker is helpful for guiding the reader along:

"Blah blah blah," Adrian said. "Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah."

He sighed, then continued, "Blah blah blah, and blah blah blah blah blah blah."

Being unclear about which character is talking or acting is probably the main problem I see in AO3 fanfic, and quite a lot in Lit.

If you just want a pause, there's the classic ... , or "rant," she paused, then continued her rant, "more ranting", or you could insert some "er, um, like, er," (that's "uh, um, like, uh" in American), or describe the pause: she halted, and glared at me for effect. Once I looked suitably chastened, she went on, "blah."

Lots of short paragraphs are often used to speed up action and give the effect of everything happening with no pause. Like any Jack Reacher novel.

 

[IWroteThis]

I use this quite frequently, and I don't recall ever getting scolded by illiterate readers for it. I know I'm old, but this is grade school level grammar. Not even middle school, but true grade school.

Personally, I think adding "he said" type things to every paragraph is more disruptive. Unless there are more than two people talking, scattering them in occasionally to keep people from getting lost is sufficient.

Further, adding narration at the end of one paragraph or the beginning of the next just to avoid dialogue running across the paragraph break is often more confusing, as it removes a simple indicator of whether it's the same or a different person speaking.

 

[designatedvictim]

I wonder how many people (at least younger ones) are unaware of the convention about a paragraph with a missing " at the end.

How common is such ignorance? Did you know this convention? Do you avoid splitting dialogue to avoid this?

Sorry, but don't people actually read?

I don't think I've ever directly encountered this causing problems with readers before.

As far as I'm aware, that's been a convention since... forever.

I use that in my stuff all the time.

As I understand it, it works that way when the next paragraph is direct dialog from the same speaker. If the next paragraph starts with something non-dialog (i.e. I took a moment to collect my thoughts, then went on, "You dummy...") you'd need to close the previous paragraph with the double-quote, first.

Otherwise, the unclosed double-quote indicates continuation by the previous speaker.

 

[usable001]

The rant is toward the tail end of a fantasy novel [Chapter 18], so Lady Elise throws out a lot of terms the reader would understand by this point.

Including Jeb's attitude about his gender.

here is where things got janky:

The whole book is about the reincarnating Winter King (or, more accurately, the Winter Prince, since the Summer King is still alive). He grows up in hiding, believing people will not accept him as their holy ruler this lifetime because he was reborn into the body of a peasant girl.

Chapter 2

Harker leaned against a post at the entrance of the alehouse proper, his hairy arms crossed over his protruding gut. “That was one hell of a long pee. Lunch rush’s over. What’s up wit you?”

Jeb mumbled, “Sorry,” and hung his head. “I think I saw Midnight — the new one. It's been almost eleven months since he died and three shades showed up, but disappeared when people noticed them.”

Harker made a gesture against evil, then chuckled. “Only you would feel a shade and go running off after it.” He scratched his chin through his thick beard. “Yer growin. Startin’ to get a shape. Given any thought to gettin’ yerself a husband?”

“I don’t want a husband.”

“Okay, a wife then. Either way, you can’t pretend to be a stable boy forever.”

Jeb wasn't pretending. But he also knew arguing with Harker was a waste of breath. “What brought this up?”

“You spilled ale on yerself.” He pulled his shirt away from his body. “That’s why I figgered you stormed out.”

Jeb scowled, crossed his arms protectively over his chest, but didn't reply. There wasn't much to see, but as one of the few people who knew Jeb’s secret, Harker was exactly the kind of man to be looking. “Did anybody else notice?”

“Not this time, but they will. Yer growing up, kid. Ain’t nothin' neither of us can do to stop that. You need to know what yer doin' next.”

 

[designatedvictim]

I was trying to indicate her hesitation before continuing to speak.

OK, that sounds more specific.

I'd have to come down on not doing it that way, if a pause is the goal.

As I understand it, the convention is to indicate a continuation. The need of a pause strikes me as being better served by stating it more explicitly.

*
Take my comments with a grain of salt.

"I'm not a writer, but I play one on TV."

 

[Britva415]

if a writer knows the convention, they would know how to use it intelligently

Agreed. I just don't think that "to indicate a pause" counts as "intelligently," here, except as a pause between ideas - exactly what a paragraph break is for in writing. A temporal pause in speech should be conveyed with words, not typography.

 

[TheRedChamber]

The leaving off quotes is one of those conventions that I'm fully aware of, admit is a convention, but would dearly like to consign to the dustbin of bad conventions if and when the universe makes me King of Grammar and Style. And not just because, as a programmer, I hate leaving out a closing 'bracket' on principle. It looks like a mistake but doesn't feel obvious enough to actually leap out and say that the speech is continuing in the next paragraph. There has to be a better way. If you are writing a speech that long in a work of fiction, it is probably best to have some kind of accompanying action or reaction from a listener every so often.

(Inevitably, I'm now going to get messages pointing out that the grammar mistakes in this post make me unfit to be the King of Grammar and Style. I know.)

 

[bi_cathy]

I was reading a story a few days ago where the author used the continued speech + missing " at the end of a paragraph, and it threw me off a couple of times, even though I know the rule. My brain is just not used to stopping and noticing quotes at the end of paragraphs. Mid-paragraphs, mid-sentences, sure, but when I see an empty line, I just assume the speech is over and we're moving on, only to realize we're not.

Like most authors in this thread said, it's something I avoid in my own writing, too. I break it up with action, with reactions, with a pause, or even a simple, "She/He continued,..." I find that's much less ambiguous. And the fewer reasons I give the reader to pause and question the craft itself, the more I'm dragging them along into my character's universe and my story's flow. I prefer that over sabotaging it for a grammar rule most people don't know.

As for long speeches, I've done those before, too, and I usually play it by ear on where to insert short pauses, where to continue in the same paragraph at the risk of having a dozen lines, and where to break and give the reader a breather. I have to "see" my character saying those words. If I can picture it and hear it, then I'm sticking with it. If not, I'm adding breather moments.

 

[Writer61]

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.

I will try to avoid doing this in future, starting with my current WIP.

 

[XerXesXu]

You don't open the continuation paragraph with inverted commas, as some of you have done. One set of quotation marks enclose all the paragraphs.

I use trailing and leading ellipses to indicate continuity of the speaker to those unfamiliar with the convention.

And don't forget, line breaks instead of paragraph breaks.