Storyline vs Sex: The Right Balance?

[KeithD]

FWIW, that part's a myth. The seven-year figure is a median for marriages which end in divorce, not for all marriages. Over 50% of marriages make it to at least 20 years.

51 years here so far, and I was actively bi (but so was she).

 

[GuessImJamie]

FWIW, that part's a myth. The seven-year figure is a median for marriages which end in divorce, not for all marriages. Over 50% of marriages make it to at least 20 years.

Looking for 5 minutes I found statistics (strictly on US marriages) like 7, 7.2, 8, 8.2, "just under 9," and 9. Congrats in Australia it is 12 years by the source that gives US an 8 (a "matrimonial lawyer's" web site), must be that Alpine air.

My point was not that long.

Nothing inconsistent about saying that most married people don't get divorced while most marriages end in divorce.

 

[GuessImJamie]

51 years here so far, and I was actively bi (but so was she).

Congratulations,

I would think being bi would help not hinder.

I met Lisa when I was 5, we were best friends at 8, lovers at 18. I married her in a church ceremony at 19 (which meant a lot to us and our other lovers, most of whom the state recognized the marriages of, but nothing to anyone else). That was 46 years ago. We obtained a (foreign) legal document 18 years ago, a US one 4 years ago. Not sure how that gets tabulated...

 

[ChloeTzang]

I'm currently re-reading much classic Golden Age SciFi, all glossed-over. No FMF oral daisychains till the 80s. The genre pulp fiction I recall abused every metaphor to avoid actually describing sex. A little mainstream fiction had brief fuckshots, maybe. But Anglophone societies seem very sex-repressed schizo. Is that a survivable kink?

But then you got those old writers like Orrie Hit and Brian Black that wrote those porn paperbacks - I collect those whenever I see them - and they’re really quite explicit with a lot of underage sex. It’s quite interesting to note the contrast between mainstream and porn back then compared to now.

Not to mention those amazing Victorian porn books.

 

[GuessImJamie]

But Anglophone societies seem very sex-repressed schizo. Is that a survivable kink?

But Anglophone societies seem very sex-repressed schizo. Is that a survivable kink?

But Anglophone societies seem very sex-repressed schizo. Is that a survivable kink?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Looking for 5 minutes I found statistics (strictly on US marriages) like 7, 7.2, 8, 8.2, "just under 9," and 9.

For what cohorts? From what sources?

Congrats in Australia it is 12 years by the source that gives US an 8 (a "matrimonial lawyer's" web site), must be that Alpine air.

Alpine? Most of us live on the coast.

I would note that going to a matrimonial lawyer for data on divorce rates is about as reliable as going to a celebrity for medical advice. Demographics is hard, and lawyers looking for business have an obvious interest in playing up the risk of divorce.

My point was not that long.

"Other estimates show that three-quarters of those married in the 1990s would make it at least 15 years (compared with just 65% of those married in the 1980s). And if that current trend continues, the vast majority (about two-thirds) of marriages will never divorce."

Nothing inconsistent about saying that most married people don't get divorced while most marriages end in divorce.

They don't, though. That claim gets repeated a lot, but it's not true. As best I can tell, it tracks back to a 1980 report which made a prediction about what future divorce rates might look like. The prediction was wrong; divorce rates have been falling over the last few decades.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/upshot/the-divorce-surge-is-over-but-the-myth-lives-on.html

 

[GuessImJamie]

For what cohorts? From what sources?

Forgive me, its late I will underline my responses to your questions.

Alpine? Most of us live on the coast.

Joke: Austria (Alpine, Wienerschitzel) v. Australia (Breaker Morant, Sulva Bay, Bottany Bay (where so very many Irish were transported), vegimite

I would note that going to a matrimonial lawyer for data on divorce rates is about as reliable as going to a celebrity for medical advice. Demographics is hard, and lawyers looking for business have an obvious interest in playing up the risk of divorce.

Yup, got the stats really quick off the WWW, but Wiki and Vox and NBC bracketed the "divorce lawyer" NOT THAT ANY OF THEM ARE RELIABLE

"Other estimates show that three-quarters of those married in the 1990s would make it at least 15 years (compared with just 65% of those married in the 1980s). And if that current trend continues, the vast majority (about two-thirds) of marriages will never divorce."

Not inconsistent, there are people who have marriages that last months, and then they get married again and again, in the same 5 minute search it listed several Florida residents (open records laws) with 20 divorces, 18, 16, 15... like one-bombs on Lit it really skews the results.

They don't, though. That claim gets repeated a lot, but it's not true. As best I can tell, it tracks back to a 1980 report which made a prediction about what future divorce rates might look like. The prediction was wrong; divorce rates have been falling over the last few decades.

You and 6 neighbors live on a cul-de-sac, you and 3 neighbors have long happy marriages of 10, 20, 30 and 40 years. (That's as of today 10 might be 50 in 40 years but the yahoo might find 5 more spouses by then too). Your average is 25 years and no divorces.

But the other three yahoos play musical spouses, each marries one of the others for one year and then divorces.

Put it together. ON AVERAGE folks have marriages that last almost 16 years BUT the average marriage lasts only 9 years.

The median resident has never been divorced, only 42% of residents have been divorced BUT 69% of all marriages end in divorce, and the average resident was divorced 1.55 times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/upshot/the-divorce-surge-is-over-but-the-myth-lives-on.html

I have a sneaky suspicion a lot of opposition to gay marriage is the idea that gay divorce rates will be lower than straight divorce rates. But I'm biased Lisa and I were together 40+ years before we had legal recognition of our relationship.

my main point was the hypocrisy

 

[Hypoxia]

"Other estimates show that three-quarters of those married in the 1990s would make it at least 15 years (compared with just 65% of those married in the 1980s). And if that current trend continues, the vast majority (about two-thirds) of marriages will never divorce."

How many marriages end in abandonment, annulment, murder, or even long-term separation? Are common-law marriages counted? Do bigamists distort off the statistics?

 

[Bramblethorn]

my main point was the hypocrisy

I get that, and I agree with the general point you were making. I'm just fussy about myths that get repeated as fact - that particular one does the rounds a lot and I wish it would die.

How many marriages end in abandonment, annulment, murder, or even long-term separation? Are common-law marriages counted? Do bigamists distort off the statistics?

All good questions. Lack of divorce doesn't always mean a good relationship, and indeed vice versa.

 

[Hypoxia]

All good questions.

In order:

"How many marriages end in abandonment, annulment, murder, or even long-term separation?"

Divorce has been common in USA since colonial times but disappearing is easy -- abandonment is the poor folks divorce, still common AFAIK. Church annulments might not appear in civil records. Separations can be unrecorded.

"Are common-law marriages counted? Do bigamists distort off the statistics?"

My question here: How closely do recorded statistics model reality? What do official or projected divorce data say about what we're really up to?

 

[Kantarii]

After 3+ years of writing, I’ve acquired a desire to write a story that, quite possibly, won’t contain any sexual activity until probably the last chapter, if at all. Honestly, I enjoy it more than anything else I’ve written, partly because it’s different, story/plot intensive, and dialogue driven. Once I finish “BFF”, it’s doubtful I will return to writing stories heavy with sexual activity.
Kant

 

[Hypoxia]

After 3+ years of writing, I’ve acquired a desire to write a story that, quite possibly, won’t contain any sexual activity until probably the last chapter, if at all.

The Botanists, a well-liked period romance about real people, contains references to sexual activity but only one explicit sex act, a blowjob saying 'yes' to a marriage proposal. Not all stories need be strokers.

We likely write to entertain -- entertain ourselves and (hopefully) others. An entertaining tale can contain zero-to-infinite implicit and/or explicit sex. A series of raw fucks lacking a story structure might arouse briefly, but then what? A *story* based on any of the basic plots tells of personal change; in erotica, it's transformation with sexual tones.

Like chicken-or-egg, we can guess whether story-or-sex comes first. I vote for story. Devise a compelling storyline, with sex as needed. Or take given kinks and desires, and build a readable story around them. But the plot is paramount. It can be few words or many -- but it had better be there.

 

[yukonnights]

The comments below are why I, for the most part, write what I do. To actually touch another person in a deeply moving way, uplifting them for just a moment is all the pay I need. This story had a couple of sex scenes toward the end of a 6 page read—just to emphasize that each story dictates it's own balance of erotica & story telling. (Also, here's evidence of the best reason to never get rid of 'anonymous comments' ) Note: I'm not sure I agree with some of the opinions about it being the "best"—that too is impossible to determine...each reader has his/her own definition of "best".

Anonymous; Finally... a convincing way of being told about the love and the fears of trans people.
I only wish that my wife's heart could be softened enough to read this story and be touched by it; she needs that so much in her Christian self-righteousness!

Anonymous; Truth....As a trans woman, this story completely captured my experiences and feelings. If I recall correctly, the author is cis-male: you, sir, did a fine job of creating a truthful portrait of transgender women. Too often we become sexual objects or two-dimensional caricatures. You crafted a beautiful story that has aroused every nerve (spiritual, emotional, personal, and especially sexual) within me. I'd go higher than five stars but the site won't allow it. I've never read a more accurate, human, or beautiful portrayal of a trans character. My hat's off to you.

Not-Anonymous; One of the Best Well-Written Love Stories Ever Anywhere! I just read it top to bottom three times. Such a great love story and the sex that finally emerged was soft, slow, and ultimately satisfying. The characters are perfect. I'd love to meet them again. I cried three times and got wet you know where also.

Anonymous; Wow...As an unfinished trans-lesbian who lives in Oregon. I have to say thank you so so much. There are far to few stories about the real lives of trans people. Thank you, again.

Anonymous; OMG best romance here... The best romance story and if not then definitely one of the best.

 

[ElectricBlue]

The comments below are why I, for the most part, write what I do. To actually touch another person in a deeply moving way, uplifting them for just a moment is all the pay I need.

This. Especially when, as you have done here, you have given a voice to a minority group in society who don't often have an affirmative voice.

I was similarly touched by the feedback I received from people with disabilities after I wrote my Amelia stories, about a woman with a broken back who has to find other ways to express her sexuality. Those are my best pieces, because of that.

I'm fairly certain I'm the PWD you mentioned in your prologue . This story is beautiful, thoughtful, erotic, romantic, non pitying, positive, sexy and empowering. I have a lump in my throat. This story is a gift. Thank you.

 

[yukonnights]

This. Especially when, as you have done here, you have given a voice to a minority group in society who don't often have an affirmative voice.

I was similarly touched by the feedback I received from people with disabilities after I wrote my Amelia stories, about a woman with a broken back who has to find other ways to express her sexuality. Those are my best pieces, because of that.

I really respect and admire that. I guess we both are just old softies ~ I've got a new story brewing that might work for PWD theme...I'll definitely ponder more on it.

 

[CuteSlaveLisa]

This. Especially when, as you have done here, you have given a voice to a minority group in society who don't often have an affirmative voice.

I was similarly touched by the feedback I received from people with disabilities after I wrote my Amelia stories, about a woman with a broken back who has to find other ways to express her sexuality. Those are my best pieces, because of that.

I am very happy you have received positive feedback on Amelia, I will have to check that series out.

You would not believe the hate mail (and surprisingly from the feedback, it's not a loving wives story either) that I have recieved over Jalepeno relating to the fact the MC (based heavily on a Vietnam veteran I know) was castrated by an RPG-7 while flying ARVNs and SFs around Laos. In the story he has relationships and romances, just not in the way he thought he would before he was injured. Boy some guys just can't deal with that mental image.

Love and Kisses

Lisa Ann

 

[ThisNameIsntTakenYet]

I am very happy you have received positive feedback on Amelia, I will have to check that series out.

You would not believe the hate mail (and surprisingly from the feedback, it's not a loving wives story either) that I have recieved over Jalepeno relating to the fact the MC (based heavily on a Vietnam veteran I know) was castrated by an RPG-7 while flying ARVNs and SFs around Laos. In the story he has relationships and romances, just not in the way he thought he would before he was injured. Boy some guys just can't deal with that mental image.

Love and Kisses

Lisa Ann

As a guy, I can verify it's a pretty unpleasant mental image indeed. I haven't read the story you mentioned, but I'm sorry to hear you've received such negative replies on it. I have to admit it does sound like a pretty shocking and heavy moment in the story, but then again with the summaries we have here you'd think there would at least be some indication something like that would happen to him before you start reading.

I guess some guys just don't see a man without his reproductive bits as manly, which is just stupid. Sure, it's going to be very life-changing and shocking should it happen to you, but you wouldn't get any less manly from it. If your perception of manliness is solely relying on your wiener I'd think you have some pretty big issues (or are just very insecure).

I for one think it sounds like a wonderful story about how he learns to have romantic (and possibly sexual) relationships after his injury. But sadly, I think a decent part of the male audience aren't reading for the deep plot and character development.