Submissive/Slave Haven

/snip/ Hey, I'm back with an update on Mr. First Date, and a serious question. I apologize now for the long, rambling nature of this post. /snip/

Didn't want to use the whole quote, so just wanted to take a snip of the quote so that everyone knows which post I am responding to!

fishercat, I am really sorry that it turned out that way for you, especially after how you have enjoyed the first date and the chats. Hopefully, it will work out for you, as long as you are honest and keep the lines of communication open.

All the best :rose: {{{hugs}}}
 
TeachMeSir...

I have always been one to believe what someone tells me at face value until they prove that I have reason to doubt. But at the same time, our instincts are there for a reason. In my experience, if the thought jumps into your mind it is something to give consideration.

"I've been busy" is a term that is used a lot (And yes, I myself have been guilty of it at times. It has been honest when I've said it, but that has not always been the only reason.) I have been there, taken what was said at face value, confronted directly the possibility of having been dismissed and received assurances that I was not. I accepted what was said and continued on my previous understanding. In the end, however I in fact had been dismissed, blown off. It isn't a pleasant thought or a good feeling. It's down right miserable. Unfortunately it is a fact of life. You grieve, you curse, you heal, and then you move on. It does take time. IMO it is a deeper wound than when a vanilla situation ends. This was someone that you opened yourself to trust on a very different level. Somebody that had the potential to know you better than anyone else. Being rejected by that person is difficult enough. Being avoided is adding lemon juice to the salt mixture applied to the wound. It leaves so many things up in the air. All of the insecurities come out for their time in the spotlight. For a time the wondering can feed the emotional masochism needs, but eventually it becomes unhealthy.

People avoid conversations that are unpleasant because they are trying to avoid causing pain or sometimes they just don't care enough to be honest. There is also the possibility that in fact life has simply been in the way. It's never easy to tell and I guess you never know for sure. Each person is different. In the end, trying to avoid causing pain causes more.

Having said that, I'm still a believer in finding out for sure what is going on. Give the benefit of the doubt that it is a misunderstanding. Give yourself a time limit though, something you feel is reasonable. If that deadline passes and you have no contact or answers that ring true to you, move on. It will hurt but in the end you are much better off.

Despite how I may have sounded, I am a glass-half-full kind of person. I believe people are inherently good, it is just that sometimes they are weak.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
 
Despite how I may have sounded, I am a glass-half-full kind of person. I believe people are inherently good, it is just that sometimes they are weak.

I often trade back and forth between describing myself as a glass-half-full and a glass-half-empty sort of person, mainly because my feelings on whether people are inherently good or inherently bad is endlessly shifting. I think that the way you describe it is perfect, and I'm going to try stepping out in the world with that in the back of my mind.
 
TeachMeSir-

When you opened up about yourself did he do the same? Emotionally? All guys are different and I don't know your communication style but from the way you wrote out the description of your guys' conversations he remained somewhat reserved. Is there a chance he was holding back for some reason or am I reading it wrong? Communication is so important in a D/s or really any relationship. Granted, some folks like to write long missives and challenge the pm size-limit while others would just as soon not have to type out their thoughts. Depends on the person. While he might be too busy how much time does it take to phone or send a quick message? Just be careful. If you have any reservations be sure to protect yourself especially if you're going to meet him eventually.

I'm a glass-half-full person :) hang in there. Only you can know if he's deserving of your love, affection, and submission. And if he is then you can work on your relationship together. Just try to stay realistic and safe. Listen to your instincts and if any red lights start flashing make sure to heed the warning. Just remember you deserve the best: to be loved and treasured by your partner. And if he turns out not to be your Mr. Right you still have the rest of your life to find him. Good luck to you. :rose:
 
TMS...

The person above me mentioned "red flags" and truthfully, IMO i already see several in your relationship with this man. The lack of contact is a big one. In the age of cell phones, it takes but 5 seconds to send a quick text message and check in with the other person. Is he married? If so, does his wife know about your relationship?

Flaking out on the visit is another big one for me. IMO, that means he has something to hide that he will no longer be able to once you are face-to-face.

I have been hurt before in relationships by liars and phonies. I wish you the best of luck, but please keep your "eyes open," because I just don't think some things are adding up.
 
TMS...

The person above me mentioned "red flags" and truthfully, IMO i already see several in your relationship with this man. The lack of contact is a big one. In the age of cell phones, it takes but 5 seconds to send a quick text message and check in with the other person. Is he married? If so, does his wife know about your relationship?

Flaking out on the visit is another big one for me. IMO, that means he has something to hide that he will no longer be able to once you are face-to-face.

I have been hurt before in relationships by liars and phonies. I wish you the best of luck, but please keep your "eyes open," because I just don't think some things are adding up.

Ditto
 
That's the thing - if you are getting to know someone in the guise of a relationship, you should know their name, number, etc. I mean, at that point, you should be able to call them up.
 
The parts I bolded stand out for me as not only classic lines used by those trying to undermine a submissives confidence to get you into bed, and are a tool used to make you feel insecure, foolish, intimidated, and like you might be missing a great opportunity if you let him slip away. IOW, he is not what I would class as a good PYL and yes, IMHO is just trying to get you to have sex. He says nothing to build you up, gain trust, or make you feel comfortable...any slight compliment he gives you is followed by a put down and questioning of your realism, or an ultimatum type statement. A week of communicating is certainly not usually enough to build that trust, especially when he has told you he has other partners...nor does it help you gauge if you are both looking for the same thing in a relationship. It is your decision, but I would give him a miss or at least tread very lightly and slowly which it sounds as if he is not going to give you the chance to do.:rose:

Catalina:catroar:


Ditto, completely.
 
Here's my issue of the day. Today, not yesterday. It's been a nutty couple of weeks. :rolleyes:

Mister Man and I are attending an weekend long bdsm event this weekend. I'm over the moon excited because I found some great outfits to wear, the workshops sound really cool, and I'm looking forward to meeting so many people. And not just in a bdsm scene kinda way. There are a whole bunch of sex bloggers coming that I might get to grab dinner with. I am a writer, and have been working on a play about my experiences over the past year. I'm not a sex blogger, but I do write about bdsm, so it will be interesting to hear different points of view.

In the interest of staying honest with Mister Man, we did have a talk about redefining boundaries. We first and foremost put a stop to the marriage and kids talk, for now. I'm not ready. We made a compromise about play for the weekend - making out with girls, boys dressed like girls and bottom boys is ok. The rest is really not. And I'm okay with that. I mostly like to run around and get my flirt on. As Mister Man is not so into the whole scene, he may leave the parties early, and we've talked about that.

So here's my concern. I tend to get really exciteable, and say things without thinking. Mister Man is still shy in this crowd, and I'm afraid I'll embarass him, or do something to make him jealous. I would prefer he do something to remind me of him, like put his hand on my back or something. But he is a bit shy in large groups, and that's a lot of pressure to put on him. So I'm wondering if there's something I can do, to subtly check in with him. Squeeze his hand, perhaps?

Overall, it should be really fun. I'm going to talk to people, see some neat stuff and learn. All good things.
 
TMS
Ive been where you are ( well not exactly but close enough) I know how you feel when you want to worry and dont know... Those around here can vewrify that... Id be wary if he just up and dissapeared... be very careful.. I wouldnt want you to hurt... sounds like he is married... Like all the other subs have said... It takes 5 seconds to tap out a message on cell phone... :rose: I wish you the best of luck...
 
Thanks Everyone for your advice.
He has actually told me that he is not married. I tend to believe this because I am, and had told him this in our first conversation. My husband is away for work at the moment & will be for the next few months. We were having a tough time before he left & were using this time as a "trial seperartion". Many of our problems were sexual and he encouraged me to explore my submissive side to see if it was something I needed, or just a fantasy (I guess he didn't know the can or worms that would open up!) Anyway, that's a whole other intricate issue that I am working thorugh.

As to my "Master" for want of a better word. I read all that you have said. Depending on my mood my attitude was either "Yeah, bastard! I can't beleive I didn't see that!" or occassionally "But he really is busy" and "But he was the one to mention a visit!" and "He has repeatedly mentioned how important I am to him"...continuing to make excuses for him.

I came to conclusion that I needed to look at my feelings, rather than try & analyize each statement. I have come to the conclusion that it's not working. Either he doesn't want it to, or he does but I need more than he can offer, or perhaps you're right & there is something about him he doesn't want me to know which is a smear on his character but I have to accept that he's not perfect.

I have written him an e-mail telling him how hurt I am that it has been over a week since I heard form him. I said that if he decided that he didn't want to continue than I would accept that. I also thanked him for showing me that my fantasy of submission is somthing that I want to explore further, that once I was in the poistion of opening myself up to him & serving him it cemented for me my need to serve. Without a Dom to take some of the fantasies into reality I would have continued to live in my head, and for him to help me with that makes me very appreciative.

I am not a vindictive person. I would like to scream & rant & rave (give me a few days and I may just write a letter in the Dear X thread). But getting mad is never the best thing (although it can be helpful). I like to get even. So, I will live my life, I will endeavour to be happy. I will possibly find a Master in the future who will not just abandon me. If that is my husband, if it is somthing he can do, then great. If not then I am strong and will survive anything. It may take me a while to pick myself up & put myself back together, but I can do that. I don't think I need a Master to keep me together, but I need to serve to be whole. Someone out there will appreciate my stubborness when it comes to watching out for myself & those I love, and embrace my wish to serve.

So, my glass is not half full, or half empty. I feel as though it has been drained completely. The only thing I know to do is to repair it, making it stronger, start to fill it myself with the bittersweetness of life that comes with unlooked for happiness after an emotional hurt. And wait for that special someone to help me fill it to overflowing.

I am so new at this and so emotionally fragile at the moment and your kind words, reality check statements & just knowing that I am not alone have been what have pulled me thorugh. My friends out here in the not so spicey world would not have understood. I couldn't have done it without you. Thanks - L
 
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TMS, just a few thoughts...

Many of our problems were sexual and he encouraged me to explore my submissive side to see if it was something I needed, or just a fantasy (I guess he didn't know the can or worms that would open up!)

Is submission something you are exploring for you or for your husband or both? if you could explore together it might be fun ;)

I have come to the conclusion that it's not working. Either he doesn't want it to, or he does but I need more than he can offer, or perhaps you're right & there is something about him he doesn't want me to know which is a smear on his character but I have to accept that he's not perfect.

Is this 'Master' actually a Dom? With experience? IMHO, from what you've said he doesn't seem to be a good one. A big part of D/s is trust. And communication. You guys aren't communicating and you don't seem to trust him to be there for you. Maybe you should work on those first if he responds to your message.

I have written him an e-mail telling him how hurt I am that it has been over a week since I heard form him. I said that if he decided that he didn't want to continue than I would accept that. I also thanked him for showing me that my fantasy of submission is somthing that I want to explore further, that once I was in the poistion of opening myself up to him & serving him it cemented for me my need to serve. Without a Dom to take some of the fantasies into reality I would have continued to live in my head, and for him to help me with that makes me very appreciative.

You're being really nice in your wording and you're also putting all the responsibility in his hands. Just be careful! and say what you want. 'Accepting' his decision, well, why is he the one deciding for you? Submission is a gift and you should trust someone completely before giving it. Do you trust him to make decisions for you? Don't be afraid to be assertive. Being submissive does not mean being a doormat or accepting that other people will direct our lives. It sounds like it might be helpful to learn and explore submission. Have you had the chance to check out any books or read through the bdsm library here? You don't necessarily need a Dom along to learn and research what's involved and moving to RL should involve forethought and safety considerations.

I will possibly find a Master in the future who will not just abandon me. If that is my husband, if it is somthing he can do, then great. If not then I am strong and will survive anything. It may take me a while to pick myself up & put myself back together, but I can do that. I don't think I need a Master to keep me together, but I need to serve to be whole. Someone out there will appreciate my stubborness when it comes to watching out for myself & those I love, and embrace my wish to serve.

Best of luck with sorting it all out. There are more doms in the world than you realize and if you stick in there you'll figure out what is right for you. Just make sure to keep looking until you find the right one (and he might be under your nose in the guise of your hubby) because everyone deserves the best and being in a situation where you are always on tenderhooks or unsure of your partner does not sound fulfilling. Serving is about serving, but also about being fulfilled. Giving and not receiving...not a good sign. For me being cherished and loved is necessary. This might not be the same for you, but it sounds like you want him to be there and to feel reciprocity in a relationship. If you want that and you're not feeling it, then something is off.

So, my glass is not half full, or half empty. I feel as though it has been drained completely. The only thing I know to do is to repair it, making it stronger, start to fill it myself with the bittersweetness of life that comes with unlooked for happiness after an emotional hurt. And wait for that special someone to help me fill it to overflowing.

*HUG* perhaps a kind thought and an internet hug will help in repairing your glass. Seeking happiness in another is tricky. That's a lot of work for them. If you can be happy yourself first and then be incandescently happy with a partner then you'll both be giving and sharing, secure in your own ability and knowing that you are together because you really love/lust each other. Kind thoughts are headed your way right this second. :cathappy:
 
TMS, just a few thoughts...

Is submission something you are exploring for you or for your husband or both? if you could explore together it might be fun ;)

It is actually something that I want to explore, which I think makes it the right reason to do it! Yeah for me! Unfortunately my husband is away for work at the moment & we have pretty bad access to communications (such as e-mail & phone).

Is this 'Master' actually a Dom? With experience? IMHO, from what you've said he doesn't seem to be a good one. A big part of D/s is trust. And communication. You guys aren't communicating and you don't seem to trust him to be there for you. Maybe you should work on those first if he responds to your message.

That's what is really wierd. I did trust him. Not because a sub must trust a master or anything an uniformed as that, but because when I had a bad week he was there for me, when he started to push too hard one night and I asked to stop the on-line scene he did, when I asked him questions about being a sub he answered honestly, now with what I necessarily wanted to hear. He validated my concerns, addressed them & gave me a chance to absorb them before he expected me to have "got over it".... then he was gone!?!

You're being really nice in your wording and you're also putting all the responsibility in his hands. Just be careful! and say what you want. '

I don't want to be the "bigger person"... it's not a case of one upmanship or having the last say. But I do want to be able to look back at my behaviour and know that I acted in a way I can be proud of myself.


Accepting' his decision, well, why is he the one deciding for you? Submission is a gift and you should trust someone completely before giving it. Do you trust him to make decisions for you? Don't be afraid to be assertive. Being submissive does not mean being a doormat or accepting that other people will direct our lives.

I am not going to always be accepting of a Masters decisions. I need to look after myself first. If I allow a Master to harm me, emotionally or physically, then what good am I to him as a sub, and what does that do to me? But in this case I have to accept it. He is not communicating with me, and apart form stalking him, or obsessing over it, the only hting for me to do is accept.

It sounds like it might be helpful to learn and explore submission. Have you had the chance to check out any books or read through the bdsm library here? You don't necessarily need a Dom along to learn and research what's involved and moving to RL should involve forethought and safety considerations

I have just received 3 (!) new books in the mail - SM101, Erotic Surrended & The New Bottoming Book.... and I am an information sponge, reading past threads & all sorts of other things.... I guess that I can get a bit immersed in something that has peaked my interest & want to learn as much as I can as quickly. I like the idea of my whole life being one big learning curve and collecting knowledge until the end of my days.

*HUG* perhaps a kind thought and an internet hug will help in repairing your glass. Seeking happiness in another is tricky. That's a lot of work for them. If you can be happy yourself first and then be incandescently happy with a partner then you'll both be giving and sharing, secure in your own ability and knowing that you are together because you really love/lust each other. Kind thoughts are headed your way right this second. :cathappy:


Thanks for the Hug. I do agree, no-one can make me happy. I need to be happy in myself so that we can make each other happy. I just know that way I "work" and it's other people that make me really really happy... just the fact that I can help or serve them, or that they are in my life, knowing that I have freinds I can go to is what takes life form it's contentment to yelling "I LOVE MY LIFE" at the top of my lungs. - I'm not saying this right but I think you get the idea.

Now, my biggest issue will be to deal with the hurt & look at what I can learn from it about myself & others, then get over it (slowly). I have a tendency to turn my back on emotional pain & then when I get tired or lonely or hurt again it all comes creaping back out and I end up dealing with issues taht I should have resolved in myself at the time they arose.

THANKS TO EVERONE HERE FOR LISTENING:)
 
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Thanks for the Hug. I do agree, no-one can make me happy. I need to be happy in myself so that we can make each other happy. I just know that way I "work" and it's other people that make me really really happy... just the fact that I can help or serve them, or that they are in my life, knowing that I have freinds I can go to is what takes life form it's contentment to yelling "I LOVE MY LIFE" at the top of my lungs. - I'm not saying this right but I think you get the idea.

Now, my biggest issue will be to deal with the hurt & look at what I can learn from it about myself & others, then get over it (slowly). I have a tendency to turn my back on emotional pain & then when I get tired or lonely or hurt again it all comes creaping back out and I end up dealing with issues taht I should have resolved in myself at the time they arose.

THANKS TO EVERONE HERE FOR LISTENING:)

I think the bottom line is that you really aren't ready to explore a relationship right now, when your relationship with your husband is unresolved.

That's not a diss on poly. Most poly people I know will agree you can't just say - well, this thing isn't working out, let's both get new partners.
 
I think the bottom line is that you really aren't ready to explore a relationship right now, when your relationship with your husband is unresolved.

That's not a diss on poly. Most poly people I know will agree you can't just say - well, this thing isn't working out, let's both get new partners.

Yep. If you do that, then you can be about 99.999999% certain that you'll lose one or both of the relationships farther down the line. Poly's based on honesty and communication and all that other good stuff.
 
Yep. If you do that, then you can be about 99.999999% certain that you'll lose one or both of the relationships farther down the line. Poly's based on honesty and communication and all that other good stuff.

Like ice cream?

You SAID good stuff! It's Friday...WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
 
I think the bottom line is that you really aren't ready to explore a relationship right now, when your relationship with your husband is unresolved.

That's not a diss on poly. Most poly people I know will agree you can't just say - well, this thing isn't working out, let's both get new partners.


Well, I have to admit that my husband & I would never consider a poly relationship right now. This is because we have our own issues & our relationship isn't strong enought to go & mix things up with another person. I should point out that our isues have nothing at all to do with how much we love each other, just the direction our life has been heading.
As for the moment, I am encouraged to explore my sub side with a Dom. My husband doesn't want to know what goes on, but I have "permission to explore"... it's all so wierd & I haven't taken advantage of this "permission" ever before because I felt as though it was something that I should use to help me grow (or submit), not just permission to go out & "get some" when he wasn't around. I felt if I didn't respect the intent behind this permission then I'd be taking advatage of it for the wrong reasons... oh, it's all so confusing.

I don't believe you've been dishonest. I'm just saying that whatever the reason, you have issues. And I'm of the opinion that you can't really give your feelings to someone else while that's happening. You can play, you can experiment to a certain degree, but the emotional chaos is just really clear from your posts. Deal with the chaos first.

signed,
itwwhoisalsoawholebunchachaosandthereforejust"dating" :D
 
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Thanks for the Hug. I do agree, no-one can make me happy. I need to be happy in myself so that we can make each other happy. I just know that way I "work" and it's other people that make me really really happy... just the fact that I can help or serve them, or that they are in my life, knowing that I have freinds I can go to is what takes life form it's contentment to yelling "I LOVE MY LIFE" at the top of my lungs. - I'm not saying this right but I think you get the idea.

Now, my biggest issue will be to deal with the hurt & look at what I can learn from it about myself & others, then get over it (slowly). I have a tendency to turn my back on emotional pain & then when I get tired or lonely or hurt again it all comes creaping back out and I end up dealing with issues taht I should have resolved in myself at the time they arose.

THANKS TO EVERONE HERE FOR LISTENING:)

Your welcome...any time you need a hug ask and it will be there for you :rose: I realized from what you wrote above that I probably came across as saying 'you should be this way' or in other words 'think the way I think' (oops) and I hate doing that (and try not to) because we're all different and have different needs, so if I seemed pushy *wince* I at least hope the questions helped. Friends are very important as are the people who love us. It hurts the worst when they are the ones who goof up or let us down. I'm thinking warm thoughts for you and hope that talking about and thinking it through will help you come to grips with what is happening as opposed to having it bounce back up later. I also agree with what others are saying. It might be good to resolve things with your husband before bringing someone else into the mix. I'm curious and if you don't mind my asking, was your husband the one who brought up submission in the first place or were you? Do either of you have experience with bdsm in the past or is it completely new? In any case I wish you the best of luck and will always have a hug on hand if you're feeling blue. Take care. *HUG* And have a wonderful Easter.
 
Anyway, I do want to see if I can "top form the bottom: and turn him into a Master that I want to submit to. It's just that I have found it easier to examine my feelings when dealing with an actual Master to seewhat my true reaction is, rather than just my imagination. (For example, I like the idea of being "forced" to have sex, but I don't think I would really like it, I liked the idea of being told how & when to touch myself, but wondered if it was actually brought to life would I still like it - the answer was a resounding yes by the way!)...

My only advice is topping from the bottom works in the beginning but at some point your husband will have to take complete control; otherwise it will not be as fulfilling and enjoyable for you.

I would say while he is away you should read up on BDSM. Look at websites, threads, and even books and make note of anything interesting or helpful for both you and him. Then when he returns from Iraq and your lives settle down you can show him all these things so he can learn how to be a Dom.
 
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