Ambrosious
Weaver of Written Worlds
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We have sex?
Better never than late...
I've read most of the posts regarding your kid's late assignment and agree with whoever said that the lateness itself is more important than how that lateness is measured. Wait until your kid gets a job, turns up on the Tuesday and says to his / her employer: "Oh, I was out of town yesterday, but I guess you'll still pay me...". I think it's important to explain the need to prioritise - whatever we might think of all the different rules relating to grading assignments, the fact remains that these rules are in place. I'd suggest finding out what they are and sticking to them, i.e. do your work on time, rather than find fault with the system [when your work is] late[r]... . Also, if it is ever physically impossible to complete an assignment, why not give the school as much notice as is reasonably possible, and ask for an extension to any deadline? Having said that, if you are to take education seriously, such occurences should be few and far betweem. The issue here is not your school's grading system........
I've read most of the posts regarding your kid's late assignment and agree with whoever said that the lateness itself is more important than how that lateness is measured. Wait until your kid gets a job, turns up on the Tuesday and says to his / her employer: "Oh, I was out of town yesterday, but I guess you'll still pay me...". I think it's important to explain the need to prioritise - whatever we might think of all the different rules relating to grading assignments, the fact remains that these rules are in place. I'd suggest finding out what they are and sticking to them, i.e. do your work on time, rather than find fault with the system [when your work is] late[r]... . Also, if it is ever physically impossible to complete an assignment, why not give the school as much notice as is reasonably possible, and ask for an extension to any deadline? Having said that, if you are to take education seriously, such occurences should be few and far betweem. The issue here is not your school's grading system........
Closet Desire
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That isn't what I said...
I said that a common response to all or nothing consequences is frequently apathy.
Do you really think the real world works any differently? Do you honestly think that all deadlines are met? all products work perfectly? mistakes, oversights, and carelessness don't occur? "overnight" mail is always overnight? Things do happen and that's real life. If they didn't we wouldn't need warranties, guarantees, civil lawsuits, or customer service departments.
We're not talking about not showing up for work or one who chronically misses deadlines (at least that wasn't mentioned). We're talking about a kid who obviously DID show up for work, but missed a deadline, for whatever reason, in one part of that work day.
Holding children up to ideals that we as adults cannot hope to meet ourselves is farsical and a recipe for failure. I do believe in consequences and have raised three children with that understanding, but consequences should be appropriate and clearly spelled out in advance.
My opinion? Get real.
I said that a common response to all or nothing consequences is frequently apathy.
Do you really think the real world works any differently? Do you honestly think that all deadlines are met? all products work perfectly? mistakes, oversights, and carelessness don't occur? "overnight" mail is always overnight? Things do happen and that's real life. If they didn't we wouldn't need warranties, guarantees, civil lawsuits, or customer service departments.
We're not talking about not showing up for work or one who chronically misses deadlines (at least that wasn't mentioned). We're talking about a kid who obviously DID show up for work, but missed a deadline, for whatever reason, in one part of that work day.
Holding children up to ideals that we as adults cannot hope to meet ourselves is farsical and a recipe for failure. I do believe in consequences and have raised three children with that understanding, but consequences should be appropriate and clearly spelled out in advance.
My opinion? Get real.
DriveSouth
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Ambrosious said:
I'm with Ambro on this one. The sooner the students begin looking at school like a job, the better off they will be.
What if this had happened at your job? What if you had - let's say an ad campaign - due for a client and you were a day late with it ...
Would you get the account? Would you have a job?
I dare say no to both.
Getting a zero as a grade will not single handedly destroy your GPA, so, come on parents and teachers - let's teach life lessons as early as we possibly can. It may save someone's job in the future.
Ambrosious
Weaver of Written Worlds
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Who's real?
Sorry, I grew up on a farm, there was no excuses for missing the "feeding" deadline. There was no excuses for not working once we got to the barn. I even went to milk sick with fever so bad I was shaking. I'm a little jaded when people tell me they can't get something done on time due to this reason or that one, and Lord help the idiot that calls in with a headache. LOL
My dad never tried to be our friend, but he did instill a hell of a work ethic in us. And I am NOT saying that you didn't CD, in fact, many times I wish he had gone a little easier on us. That explains why I have no sympathy for the darling. I do plan on being easier on my own, if I can. I have the FantasyGoddess to keep me in check, one of her favorite hobbies. HA!
Sorry, I grew up on a farm, there was no excuses for missing the "feeding" deadline. There was no excuses for not working once we got to the barn. I even went to milk sick with fever so bad I was shaking. I'm a little jaded when people tell me they can't get something done on time due to this reason or that one, and Lord help the idiot that calls in with a headache. LOL
My dad never tried to be our friend, but he did instill a hell of a work ethic in us. And I am NOT saying that you didn't CD, in fact, many times I wish he had gone a little easier on us. That explains why I have no sympathy for the darling. I do plan on being easier on my own, if I can. I have the FantasyGoddess to keep me in check, one of her favorite hobbies. HA!
DriveSouth
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Ambrosious said:
Once again, us farm boys see things differently I guess.
When the corn is ripe on the stalks and the okra is getting too hard to eat and the squash grows to sizes that make it inedible over night - late is not an option.
When two acres of cucumbers need to picked daily - yes dammit, daily - late is not an option.
When the cattle have been in the rye grass pasture for a couple days already and are in danger becoming sick 'cause it is too rich for them to eat for days and days running - late is not an option.
When coons(Racoons) gnaw a fist sized hole in every ripe melon and eat the heart out of every one that you leave in the field overnight - late is not an option.
I have to agree on several things here. The child was given a responsibility for a homework assignment, was the assignment even started yet? Or was it a last minute thoguht on the child's part, who in turn panicked and told the parents the teacher was being unfair? Late is late, if the parents back up this child on such trivial things, where will the child be when he/she has to face a BIG problem? Will this child expect mommy and daddy to clear the way for them, continually thru life? Now is the time for a grade 5 child to start taking responsibility for their actions. The lesson the parents are teaching this child is, that it is okay to be late for things. I am assuming that the majority of the class had no problem handing in this assignment on time. I had children who always waited until the last minute to start/finish projects. Not once did I go bitch about the grade they received due to lateness. Perhaps the parents should be given a lesser grade for teaching their child it is okay to slack off/put off because I also think that a parent has to take some responsibility in reminding a child that school work is important.
*Preparing to get flamed for this*
Merelan try this : ) without the space and : D without the space...
Cheyenne, try putting your pics on disk, then when you go to attach them to email, you only have to look thru the disk to find it unlike looking thru/for a folder...
*Preparing to get flamed for this*
Merelan try this : ) without the space and : D without the space...
Cheyenne, try putting your pics on disk, then when you go to attach them to email, you only have to look thru the disk to find it unlike looking thru/for a folder...
Ambrosious
Weaver of Written Worlds
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DriveSouth
Paw?
Zat you?
Paw?
Zat you?
DriveSouth
Lepidopterist
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Scary ain't it?
Ever plow a mule? Never lived till ya have.
Ever plow a mule? Never lived till ya have.
Ambrosious
Weaver of Written Worlds
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Lord yes, I've stared down the working end of an ass plenty of times before.
Ksss, you just don't get it, til you get it, then you don't want it, get it?
Ksss, you just don't get it, til you get it, then you don't want it, get it?
Re: That isn't what I said...
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Yes, this seems to be the case.
No, no, no, no (no and no), no.
Neither was I ... and yes, indeed.
Who said anything about ideals? Not me ... but the issue here is not ideals (either)...
My opinion? Reality is what you make it, you might never make it ideal, but that doesn't mean you don't have to try. So let's all try to get off our high horses even if no-one has told us how to in advance ...
Closet Desire said:
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Yes, this seems to be the case.
No, no, no, no (no and no), no.
Neither was I ... and yes, indeed.
Who said anything about ideals? Not me ... but the issue here is not ideals (either)...
My opinion? Reality is what you make it, you might never make it ideal, but that doesn't mean you don't have to try. So let's all try to get off our high horses even if no-one has told us how to in advance ...
Closet Desire
Literotica Guru
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Crusty old farts...
...no, not you guys.
I thought the expectations of high school were tough until I got into Admiral Rickover's nuclear power program. Then I learned a whole new set of rules like "perfection is not merely a goal, it is an achievable expectation." Rickover's rules rose largely out of the loss of the Thresher due to flaws in workmanship and I have to admit that as much as I detested his personal character I really respected this constant quest for excellence. At the same time his expectations caused a lot of problems and nearly bankrupted General Dynamics when a number of welds that should have been made were not. He insisted that every single sub under construction be disassembled, inspected, and put right. GD argued before Congress that it was "good enough" and that life in a war machine was risky anyway. GD lost. I agree with that because of the lives at stake no only in the sub but those who might be affected by a nuclear accident. I have to admit the effects are still with me nearly twenty years after I left the program. Some are positive and some are not as I think I often have unrealistic expectations of those I do business with.
However, few things in life are quite so critical. My ex-wife was a stout farmgirl from northern Iowa (my only indoctrination into farming by the way...I plead ignorance...you mean chickens aren't grown in styrofoam and cellowrap?) Yep, they had to harvest and plant and all that at the proper times, but it didn't always happen that way. When it didn't, there were consequences but they didn't lose the entire crop...just paid a penance for their misjudgment.
If you miss a payment on your car or your credit card they don't just yank the car or card from you. They exact a penalty to teach you a lesson. It was my understanding that this teacher had a penalty for late lessons and that the dispute was over how much penalty it should be, not whether or not it was "okay" to be late. Ten percent is a pretty hefty whack off the top. The consequences should be clear to both adults and children. That was my only point.
As for ad deadlines...I can't think of a business where deadlines are more often routinely missed than in advertising. I advertise nationally for our business frequently (just said good bye to the Yellow Pages rep a few minutes ago) and while I usually get my ads in on time, it isn't unusual for me to miss them by a day or so. Often you can blame the artist, but I can't in my case...he's always spot on. Everybody knows this and they build it into their project time lines so it doesn't screw things up.
People are terribly fallible and going through life as Rickover did, expecting perfection, is not realistic. Certainly a goal to work toward, but not one you should count on.
If the teacher's policy had been to not accept late work then you wouldn't hear so much as a squeek from me. If the policy as clear...and this one clearly wasn't...then nobody...including parents...has cause to complain.
...no, not you guys.
I thought the expectations of high school were tough until I got into Admiral Rickover's nuclear power program. Then I learned a whole new set of rules like "perfection is not merely a goal, it is an achievable expectation." Rickover's rules rose largely out of the loss of the Thresher due to flaws in workmanship and I have to admit that as much as I detested his personal character I really respected this constant quest for excellence. At the same time his expectations caused a lot of problems and nearly bankrupted General Dynamics when a number of welds that should have been made were not. He insisted that every single sub under construction be disassembled, inspected, and put right. GD argued before Congress that it was "good enough" and that life in a war machine was risky anyway. GD lost. I agree with that because of the lives at stake no only in the sub but those who might be affected by a nuclear accident. I have to admit the effects are still with me nearly twenty years after I left the program. Some are positive and some are not as I think I often have unrealistic expectations of those I do business with.
However, few things in life are quite so critical. My ex-wife was a stout farmgirl from northern Iowa (my only indoctrination into farming by the way...I plead ignorance...you mean chickens aren't grown in styrofoam and cellowrap?) Yep, they had to harvest and plant and all that at the proper times, but it didn't always happen that way. When it didn't, there were consequences but they didn't lose the entire crop...just paid a penance for their misjudgment.
If you miss a payment on your car or your credit card they don't just yank the car or card from you. They exact a penalty to teach you a lesson. It was my understanding that this teacher had a penalty for late lessons and that the dispute was over how much penalty it should be, not whether or not it was "okay" to be late. Ten percent is a pretty hefty whack off the top. The consequences should be clear to both adults and children. That was my only point.
As for ad deadlines...I can't think of a business where deadlines are more often routinely missed than in advertising. I advertise nationally for our business frequently (just said good bye to the Yellow Pages rep a few minutes ago) and while I usually get my ads in on time, it isn't unusual for me to miss them by a day or so. Often you can blame the artist, but I can't in my case...he's always spot on. Everybody knows this and they build it into their project time lines so it doesn't screw things up.
People are terribly fallible and going through life as Rickover did, expecting perfection, is not realistic. Certainly a goal to work toward, but not one you should count on.
If the teacher's policy had been to not accept late work then you wouldn't hear so much as a squeek from me. If the policy as clear...and this one clearly wasn't...then nobody...including parents...has cause to complain.
Whispersecret
Clandestine Sex-pressionist
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Long Assed Post Alert
I’ve taught young kids (up to about age 7) for ten years. Here are my comments.
1. I would have only counted it one day late. The clock thing seems a little radical for me. However, if the teacher had outlined the consequences beforehand and the students were aware of how she deducted points, then the child deserves to lose 20 points.
2. If this child is in fifth grade, it’s far past the time when the parent should have been requiring personal responsibility for completion of their schoolwork. I taught first graders and would never accept it when the children would tell me that “My mom forgot to put it in my backpack.” I would tell them, “It’s your homework, not your mom’s. It’s your responsibility to remember to bring it to school.” It’s NEVER too early to expect your children to be responsible. Never. The trick is to require responsibilities according to the age/level of maturity. For example, a six-year-old would need a lot of help in order to complete a science fair project on his own, but a twelve-year-old could do most of the work himself.
3. I hope that the principal consulted with the teacher before handing down a judgment. If the teacher made her late policy clear to the class beforehand, the policy should stand. Undermining a teacher’s authority on inconsequential matters like this demoralizes the teacher (already a major problem in our society) and worsens the division between administration and the staff.
4. Being out of town and forgetting about the paper is an unacceptable reason for being late on the assignment. If it was for a funeral or something like that, I could understand. There will always be extenuating circumstances that have to be taken into account, but just being out of town wouldn’t be good enough for me. If the assignment was given far enough in advance, there should be no excuse for having it done on time, even if you had a trip planned. I’d need more specific details regarding the date the assignment was given, the exact nature of the paper, and when the paper was due.
If you’re going out of town for the weekend, ask your child what needs to be done in the meantime. A fifth grader should know already, but it wouldn’t hurt to check with the teacher. If it’s going to be an extended trip, definitely check with the teacher to see what will be missed. You may be able to take the work with you.
5. If the child forgot about the assignment, that is a prime example of irresponsibility. This is a child who needs to be taught the importance of school. It’s more than just learning math and historical facts and such. Knowledge of facts will probably help him get a better job when he’s an adult, but following through on assignments, being personally responsible for what’s expected of him, being reliable and honest—those are the things that are truly going to help this child succeed. Don’t focus so much on the little picture. The paper isn’t the important thing here. What is important is that the child learn that the work needs to be done on time, and if it isn’t he will face consequences.
6. Whether the teacher is forgetful about attendance is completely immaterial. The fact that she was late for your conference, while regrettable and not something to admire, has no bearing whatsoever on whether your child should have a deduction on his assignment. This teacher does sound like she could stand to be a little more organized, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with this situation. If that’s the worst complaint you have about this teacher, count yourself lucky.
7. Okay, re-reading your post, you make the point that the teacher is setting a bad example as far as responsibility is concerned. That’s valid. Teachers have to teach as much by example as by their words. Same with parents, though. Your actions showed your child that he didn’t have to be responsible for turning in his assignment on time (without valid reason) or for even remembering to do it in the first place, which is even worse.
8. Creamy Lady said, “God, I wouldn't teach for the world. Parents would make me a lunatic in no time at all.” Amen. You have no idea what we have to deal with!
I’ve taught young kids (up to about age 7) for ten years. Here are my comments.
1. I would have only counted it one day late. The clock thing seems a little radical for me. However, if the teacher had outlined the consequences beforehand and the students were aware of how she deducted points, then the child deserves to lose 20 points.
2. If this child is in fifth grade, it’s far past the time when the parent should have been requiring personal responsibility for completion of their schoolwork. I taught first graders and would never accept it when the children would tell me that “My mom forgot to put it in my backpack.” I would tell them, “It’s your homework, not your mom’s. It’s your responsibility to remember to bring it to school.” It’s NEVER too early to expect your children to be responsible. Never. The trick is to require responsibilities according to the age/level of maturity. For example, a six-year-old would need a lot of help in order to complete a science fair project on his own, but a twelve-year-old could do most of the work himself.
3. I hope that the principal consulted with the teacher before handing down a judgment. If the teacher made her late policy clear to the class beforehand, the policy should stand. Undermining a teacher’s authority on inconsequential matters like this demoralizes the teacher (already a major problem in our society) and worsens the division between administration and the staff.
4. Being out of town and forgetting about the paper is an unacceptable reason for being late on the assignment. If it was for a funeral or something like that, I could understand. There will always be extenuating circumstances that have to be taken into account, but just being out of town wouldn’t be good enough for me. If the assignment was given far enough in advance, there should be no excuse for having it done on time, even if you had a trip planned. I’d need more specific details regarding the date the assignment was given, the exact nature of the paper, and when the paper was due.
If you’re going out of town for the weekend, ask your child what needs to be done in the meantime. A fifth grader should know already, but it wouldn’t hurt to check with the teacher. If it’s going to be an extended trip, definitely check with the teacher to see what will be missed. You may be able to take the work with you.
5. If the child forgot about the assignment, that is a prime example of irresponsibility. This is a child who needs to be taught the importance of school. It’s more than just learning math and historical facts and such. Knowledge of facts will probably help him get a better job when he’s an adult, but following through on assignments, being personally responsible for what’s expected of him, being reliable and honest—those are the things that are truly going to help this child succeed. Don’t focus so much on the little picture. The paper isn’t the important thing here. What is important is that the child learn that the work needs to be done on time, and if it isn’t he will face consequences.
6. Whether the teacher is forgetful about attendance is completely immaterial. The fact that she was late for your conference, while regrettable and not something to admire, has no bearing whatsoever on whether your child should have a deduction on his assignment. This teacher does sound like she could stand to be a little more organized, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with this situation. If that’s the worst complaint you have about this teacher, count yourself lucky.
7. Okay, re-reading your post, you make the point that the teacher is setting a bad example as far as responsibility is concerned. That’s valid. Teachers have to teach as much by example as by their words. Same with parents, though. Your actions showed your child that he didn’t have to be responsible for turning in his assignment on time (without valid reason) or for even remembering to do it in the first place, which is even worse.
8. Creamy Lady said, “God, I wouldn't teach for the world. Parents would make me a lunatic in no time at all.” Amen. You have no idea what we have to deal with!
CreamyLady
Uncompromising Visionary
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Whispersecret, to you and all the other teachers out there who teach so we don't have to, thank you!!!
ManOSafety
Literotica Guru
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My two cents worth
At some point students need to be taught lessons about accountability and responsibility, the question is when and to what degree. If there are clearly outlined expectations for assignments and the consequences for failure to meet these expectations, then the appropriate response to failing to turn it in on time has already been spelled out, along with most other possible flaws in the assignment.
However, it seems that the most important lesson that typically should be taught in a classroom is whether or not the student learned the information. If so, then some credit should be due and the goal has been reached.
Does this mean that by accepting a homework assignment late from a fifth grader or even an eleventh grader is giving them the message that it is okay to turn work in late, so you don't have to worry about getting work done on time when you have a job? Please...give our children more credit than that.
Having rambled now, I think I need to say that in response to the question of whether or not a child should be penalized for a late assignment, my answer is a categorical maybe. It depends on the school, the assignment and the student.
At the private school that I teach at, we tend to be merciful and gracious with our students, to a greater extent than I sometimes think we should be, so I have taken some late assignments that I otherwise wouldn't have. By completing their assignment, at some point, I'd like to think that my students learned something about history, which is what I wanted them to do when I gave them the assignment. Did some of them learn ways to manipulate the system and take advantage of our mercy? Sure. Have they become evil people who will suck the lifeblood from our economy? No.
For those students whose parents understand the importance of hardwork, reliability and meeting commitments, they wouldn't turn work in late if they had to attend four funerals and go to the emergency room over the weekend. For those students whose parents tell me "I just don't know what to do with him/her", they will have a rude awakening when they go to college or get their first job and find out that they have to meet deadlines and are accountable for their own decisions.
Ultimately I guess it depends on your view about the purpose of school. Is it to prepare students for work, to educate, to indoctrinate, to socialize, to provide child care?
At some point students need to be taught lessons about accountability and responsibility, the question is when and to what degree. If there are clearly outlined expectations for assignments and the consequences for failure to meet these expectations, then the appropriate response to failing to turn it in on time has already been spelled out, along with most other possible flaws in the assignment.
However, it seems that the most important lesson that typically should be taught in a classroom is whether or not the student learned the information. If so, then some credit should be due and the goal has been reached.
Does this mean that by accepting a homework assignment late from a fifth grader or even an eleventh grader is giving them the message that it is okay to turn work in late, so you don't have to worry about getting work done on time when you have a job? Please...give our children more credit than that.
Having rambled now, I think I need to say that in response to the question of whether or not a child should be penalized for a late assignment, my answer is a categorical maybe. It depends on the school, the assignment and the student.
At the private school that I teach at, we tend to be merciful and gracious with our students, to a greater extent than I sometimes think we should be, so I have taken some late assignments that I otherwise wouldn't have. By completing their assignment, at some point, I'd like to think that my students learned something about history, which is what I wanted them to do when I gave them the assignment. Did some of them learn ways to manipulate the system and take advantage of our mercy? Sure. Have they become evil people who will suck the lifeblood from our economy? No.
For those students whose parents understand the importance of hardwork, reliability and meeting commitments, they wouldn't turn work in late if they had to attend four funerals and go to the emergency room over the weekend. For those students whose parents tell me "I just don't know what to do with him/her", they will have a rude awakening when they go to college or get their first job and find out that they have to meet deadlines and are accountable for their own decisions.
Ultimately I guess it depends on your view about the purpose of school. Is it to prepare students for work, to educate, to indoctrinate, to socialize, to provide child care?
Closet Desire
Literotica Guru
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Well said...
Now there's some deep, well-thought out considerations. It got me thinking about something that has unfolded recently for me.
I was four days late handing in an essay on Poe while doing my Masters in '96. I took a pretty substantial hit on the grade (the policy was clear and not an issue with me) and there was only one reason for the tardiness...I had become engrossed in the analysis...believed I had found something that had never been written about before. I think I got an A- on the work where all my other work had been A+ so it was a sacrifice. With the professor's encouragement I ended up submitting the work to a major US literary journal...where it was accepted. Indeed, it is an angle that has never been examined before. I just received the galleys from the journal and it will be published next quarter as the lead article in the journal. For an academe it's a real coup which justified taking a lower score on the original paper. That same prof has been using the paper as a teaching resource in her classes.
Somebody said that while learning the facts is important, schools teach something more important like the skills to follow through, to enquire, and how to learn on your own. I agree completely.
Now there's some deep, well-thought out considerations. It got me thinking about something that has unfolded recently for me.
I was four days late handing in an essay on Poe while doing my Masters in '96. I took a pretty substantial hit on the grade (the policy was clear and not an issue with me) and there was only one reason for the tardiness...I had become engrossed in the analysis...believed I had found something that had never been written about before. I think I got an A- on the work where all my other work had been A+ so it was a sacrifice. With the professor's encouragement I ended up submitting the work to a major US literary journal...where it was accepted. Indeed, it is an angle that has never been examined before. I just received the galleys from the journal and it will be published next quarter as the lead article in the journal. For an academe it's a real coup which justified taking a lower score on the original paper. That same prof has been using the paper as a teaching resource in her classes.
Somebody said that while learning the facts is important, schools teach something more important like the skills to follow through, to enquire, and how to learn on your own. I agree completely.
Okay. As someone who gets to make the assignment policy, mine is easy. Unless you have a medical certicate, a major family trauma (Grandma died) or something is severed, it isn't accepted. Not a minute late, not an hour late, not a day late. Students only ever submit assignments late once. Life doesn't wait for you. Parents only harm their students in the end by covering up or negotiating easier penalties for their student. Taking a student out of one subject to complete an assignment in another also teaches bad habits. Teachers aren't heartless. Accepting late assignments is unfair to all the students who submitted on time.
Students come up with ingenious excuses. A few years ago, my students had to write a biography about someone they knew. The excuses ranged from "My person suddenly went overseas" to "My person doesn't speak any english and I haven't found a translator yet." Inevitably, a student arrived at my door and announced, "The person I was doing just died." Naturally I was sympathetic until I discovered that her subject (next door neighbour) was 92 and had been in intensive care for three weeks, ever since the assignment was handed out. Student's mother wasn't impressed with her either.
Students come up with ingenious excuses. A few years ago, my students had to write a biography about someone they knew. The excuses ranged from "My person suddenly went overseas" to "My person doesn't speak any english and I haven't found a translator yet." Inevitably, a student arrived at my door and announced, "The person I was doing just died." Naturally I was sympathetic until I discovered that her subject (next door neighbour) was 92 and had been in intensive care for three weeks, ever since the assignment was handed out. Student's mother wasn't impressed with her either.
Re: My two cents worth
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Credit where it's due ...
The problem with expressing one's view, especially by means of example - be it comparative, metaphorical, (f)actual, or by any other means / combination of means - is that of being ultimately taken out of context. The context here is the education of one child at one school, so my comparison of the tardiness of their assignment to the workplace was intended as a prompt to thinking in terms of a positive, proactive and responsible outlook towards the educative process. Certainly, 'education' isn't the preserve of 'the school', it's a life-long process. However, during the formulative school years, moments when children do 'wrong' are crucial; for these are the very moments when they have the chance - aided by parent and teacher - to take stock of their actions (or 'non actions'), critically assess whatever is at stake, and (hopefully) learn from the outcome. Of course, as has already been opined, 'perfection' is an unachievable ideal. Aspiration, however, is not; and if the child aspires to deal more efficiently with schoolwork, then this may eventually broaden the scope of future aspirations as an adult. Again, I have to stress that I'm not offering an 'all or nothing' synopsis of the situation, and I'm certainly not trying to offer any pseudo-psychological take on the rights or wrongs of how teachers deal with late assignments, and how pupils react to this.
As for 'the purpose of school' (as quoted above), it's more a case of a fluidic mix of preparation for work, education, indoctrination, socialization and child care. The dynamic between all of these will vary from one geographical location to the next, and will manifest itself in entirely different ways depending on a host of factors, not least of which are the pupil, the parent and the teacher. An individual's cultural / intellectual capital has an exchange rate which is governed by so many forces ... credit where it's due, but don't ask for / demand / expect it as your natural right, as a refusal often offends.
ManOSafety said:
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Credit where it's due ...
The problem with expressing one's view, especially by means of example - be it comparative, metaphorical, (f)actual, or by any other means / combination of means - is that of being ultimately taken out of context. The context here is the education of one child at one school, so my comparison of the tardiness of their assignment to the workplace was intended as a prompt to thinking in terms of a positive, proactive and responsible outlook towards the educative process. Certainly, 'education' isn't the preserve of 'the school', it's a life-long process. However, during the formulative school years, moments when children do 'wrong' are crucial; for these are the very moments when they have the chance - aided by parent and teacher - to take stock of their actions (or 'non actions'), critically assess whatever is at stake, and (hopefully) learn from the outcome. Of course, as has already been opined, 'perfection' is an unachievable ideal. Aspiration, however, is not; and if the child aspires to deal more efficiently with schoolwork, then this may eventually broaden the scope of future aspirations as an adult. Again, I have to stress that I'm not offering an 'all or nothing' synopsis of the situation, and I'm certainly not trying to offer any pseudo-psychological take on the rights or wrongs of how teachers deal with late assignments, and how pupils react to this.
As for 'the purpose of school' (as quoted above), it's more a case of a fluidic mix of preparation for work, education, indoctrination, socialization and child care. The dynamic between all of these will vary from one geographical location to the next, and will manifest itself in entirely different ways depending on a host of factors, not least of which are the pupil, the parent and the teacher. An individual's cultural / intellectual capital has an exchange rate which is governed by so many forces ... credit where it's due, but don't ask for / demand / expect it as your natural right, as a refusal often offends.
