The Plot Hole Spackle Thread

[RetroFan]

It can actually be quite fun working out ways to get the non-erotic characters out of the way in stories.

I'd go with the parents working shift type work - police officer, firefighter, paramedic, nurse, hospital doctor, pilot, flight attendant or the like - which keeps them out of the way, or travelling for work or to see relatives.

 

[ElectricBlue]

It can actually be quite fun working out ways to get the non-erotic characters out of the way in stories.

I'd go with the parents working shift type work - police officer, firefighter, paramedic, nurse, hospital doctor, pilot, flight attendant or the like - which keeps them out of the way, or travelling for work or to see relatives.

I'd go with not having eighteen year olds, to be honest. What is this thing where writers want to describe everyone as eighteen?

When you're twenty-one, I guess, those few years matter; but when you get on a bit... I'd rather read stories about adults.

I often wonder what the Lit demographic really is. It's pretty obvious from story content talked about here, that it's filling up from the bottom just as much as it's shuffling off its mortal coil from the other end.

I mean, even that sprite @EmilyMiller is pushing thirty. Or pulling it, I'm not sure .

 

[TheRedChamber]

Washing machines can break when full of water and be impossible to open, certainly front-loading ones.

I've got a draft where I'd appreciate a beta read of about 500 words, because I know very little about guitarists or bands. The scene is to get A and B to meet and get together again, after a one-night stand they had at a wedding.

A is the singer for a covers band. The guitarist has an emergency, so friends-of-friends are contacted until an appropriate stand-in (B) is found. B goes and practises a bit with the band's guitarist who confirms he'll do.

Two days later B arrives, warms up with the drummer and bassist, A wanders in, and has to be professional - but eventually quite enjoys showing off to B. And gets volunteered to give B a ride home after.

If anyone's willing to read, that would be very helpful.

I was in a band who practiced in a shed for one summer when I was seventeen. Have a fairly encyclopedic knowledge of rock music otherwise.

If Brian May offers to read for you, you should probably go with him. Otherwise, I'm free to look at it.

 

[KeithD]

Firstly, I need a bullshit excuse for two 18 year olds to basically have the run of their homes, with the parents being almost entirely absent.

The parents have seasonal homes, going back and forth for large chunks of time. The 18-year-olds are just out of high school and have landed jobs in one of those areas. They can't go to the other house like their parents do.

 

[intim8]

What is this thing where writers want to describe everyone as eighteen?

Because those first years of discovery, of initially learning those mysteries, making mistakes, overcoming doubts, trying and failing as well as trying and succeeding, its all incredibly compelling, and something everyone either remembers fondly or wishes they could.

And because it is common for lifelong relationships to begin around then. Especially idealized ones.

For a lot of people, they weren't 18 yet, but rules are rules.

I'd rather read stories about adults.

For many kinds of stories, yes. As compelling as discovery stories are, stories of experience, of more sophisticated mistakes, more thoughtful choices, more established relationships, and more consequential regrets as well as triumphs can be just as much so.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I'd go with not having eighteen year olds, to be honest. What is this thing where writers want to describe everyone as eighteen?

When you're twenty-one, I guess, those few years matter; but when you get on a bit... I'd rather read stories about adults.

I often wonder what the Lit demographic really is. It's pretty obvious from story content talked about here, that it's filling up from the bottom just as much as it's shuffling off its mortal coil from the other end.

I mean, even that sprite @EmilyMiller is pushing thirty. Or pulling it, I'm not sure .

I’m an old lady, hun. Been looking for gray hairs for some time.

Emily

 

[RetroFan]

I'd go with not having eighteen year olds, to be honest. What is this thing where writers want to describe everyone as eighteen?

When you're twenty-one, I guess, those few years matter; but when you get on a bit... I'd rather read stories about adults.

I often wonder what the Lit demographic really is. It's pretty obvious from story content talked about here, that it's filling up from the bottom just as much as it's shuffling off its mortal coil from the other end.

I mean, even that sprite @EmilyMiller is pushing thirty. Or pulling it, I'm not sure .

It depends on the plot for your story. I mostly write stories set in the past when people tended to get married at a younger age, so it would be quite anachronistic in some of my First Time stories if they were narrated by characters in their mid-late 20s. For example 'Sally and the Sailor' is set in 1943 is narrated by pretty tomboy Sally, who is 18 and works in a factory in World War 2. It's completely realistic that Sally is a virgin at age 18 until she and the neighbour's son Eddie who has just enlisted in the Navy at age 18 have some fun; but make Sally in her mid 20s way back then and in the same situation, it doesn't work as well, she should be married and have kids by this stage (which she notes does happen with Eddie in the epilogue when he returns from the war). True, one could write a story about a woman who is aged in her late 20s or early 30s around this era who has been left on the shelf by potential suitors, is a virgin and is on her way to becoming an 'old maid' until she unexpectedly meets a male lover, but the scenario with the tomboy factory girl and the sailor is easier to imagine and therefore to write.

 

[Astrotrain]

That should be enough to get me going, thanks guys. I don't think you should let this thread go to waste, it could be a great help for all of us. @Kumquatqueen, Sorry, can't help you because I know nothing about guitarists or bands myself. Maybe somebody else will assist you.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

That should be enough to get me going, thanks guys. I don't think you should let this thread go to waste, it could be a great help for all of us. @Kumquatqueen, Sorry, can't help you because I know nothing about guitarists or bands myself. Maybe somebody else will assist you.

Thanks @Astrotrain - I've taken up @TheRedChamber 's kind offer.

Though being Brits, we call the stuff Polyfilla or filler.

 

[tenyari]

I’m an old lady, hun. Been looking for gray hairs for some time.

You aren't really old until it's the colors that are NOT gray that you spend time looking for.

 

[EmilyMiller]

You aren't really old until it's the colors that are NOT gray that you spend time looking for.

I didn't say that I had found any, doesn’t stop me looking - mom went gray kinda young.

Emily

 

[Rob_Royale]

Firstly, I need a bullshit excuse for two 18 year olds to basically have the run of their homes, with the parents being almost entirely absent.

Secondly, to set up a CFNM scenario, is there any believable way possible somebody could accidentally put the wrong thing into a washing machine and completely ruin the clothing? I'm not just talking about faded or changed colours here, I mean they're literally falling apart?

Interesting thread.

1. Kids start college and parents are finally able to load up the RV and hit the road, taking the "just us" vacation they have dreamed about.

2. It sounds like a stretch, any way you come up with. But if the story happens in an apartment complex with a laundry room, clothes get stolen from those all the time.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Firstly, I need a bullshit excuse for two 18 year olds to basically have the run of their homes, with the parents being almost entirely absent.

Their parents have mysteriously disappeared (see below).

Secondly, to set up a CFNM scenario, is there any believable way possible somebody could accidentally put the wrong thing into a washing machine and completely ruin the clothing? I'm not just talking about faded or changed colours here, I mean they're literally falling apart?

The washing machine factory was built on a Native American burial ground and a vengeful demon has possessed the washing machine. The washing machine ate the parents before it ate theclothes.

Title: The Wicked Whirlpool

You’re welcome.

Emily

 

[intim8]

The washing machine factory was built on a Native American burial ground and a vengeful demon has possessed the washing machine. The washing machine ate the parents before it ate theclothes.

Or simpler, the manufacturer set the "sock sucker" setting too high and all the clothes go wherever it is that the socks go.

 

[tenyari]

I'd go with not having eighteen year olds, to be honest. What is this thing where writers want to describe everyone as eighteen?

There are a LOT of stories on here where the characters are only 18 because if they were 14 - inline with how their bodies and personalities end up being described - the story would not have made it past the filters.

If the 'age rule' included a check to be sure the character had an actual adult body and mind, half of the exhib genre would vanish overnight. It'd probably wipe out a lot of some other genres too but I'd just be making guesses there.

I keep stumbling into stories I have to back out of because things are just... weirdly wrong.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

There are a LOT of stories on here where the characters are only 18 because if they were 14 - inline with how their bodies and personalities end up being described - the story would not have made it past the filters.

If the 'age rule' included a check to be sure the character had an actual adult body and mind, half of the exhib genre would vanish overnight. It'd probably wipe out a lot of some other genres too but I'd just be making guesses there.

I keep stumbling into stories I have to back out of because things are just... weirdly wrong.

I've rarely come across those - some medical fetish ones with an amazingly naive protagonist, maybe. Some I/T with 'I'd never noticed how my daughter had suddenly grown up into a young woman" smacks of wanting the daughter to be younger, though.

More common are the ones where all characters are badly written and you get the impression the author may be 14. But most of those are on AO3 writing about ready-made characters that appeal to 14yos. If AO3 had existed when I was 14 I might have done the same, instead of wangsting in my paper diary. Might have been healthier.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I've rarely come across those - some medical fetish ones with an amazingly naive protagonist, maybe. Some I/T with 'I'd never noticed how my daughter had suddenly grown up into a young woman" smacks of wanting the daughter to be younger, though.

More common are the ones where all characters are badly written and you get the impression the author may be 14. But most of those are on AO3 writing about ready-made characters that appeal to 14yos. If AO3 had existed when I was 14 I might have done the same, instead of wangsting in my paper diary. Might have been healthier.

I think Laurel's screening has tightened up in the ten years I've been here on Lit, and the worst of the ""How old did you say she was?" stories are the older ones.

Right now the monthly, "Is this pushing the age line a bit, do you think?" threads have been taken over by, "Oh shit, Laurel thinks my story is written by AI" threads, but once all that calms down with whatever solution is going to work, I'm sure we'll go back to regular services, and the old favourites will pop up once again.

 

[Astrotrain]

I got away with saying my bratty domme was 18 but due to growing up in isolation she was incredibly immature, sometimes throwing tantrums and stamping her foot when she didn't get her way.

 

[intim8]

There are a LOT of stories on here where the characters are only 18 because if they were 14 - inline with how their bodies and personalities end up being described - the story would not have made it past the filters.

I haven't seen many, maybe none, where the characters come off as 14. Less than 18, yes, but not that much less.

It is very, very common for young people's first deliberate and meaningful sexual activity to occur during high school*. As I said elsewhere, it is an age and set of experiences that many older people look back very fondly on, On the other hand, many wish they could look back on good memories from then but can't, so they want to experience it vicariously. Not themselves as they are now with a person that age, but themselves as one of those younger people.

There's a dynamic there, and a feel to it - when the characters are of the same age - that is unique to that period of life. There's a lot of stories here that take place during that time, senior year of high school or the summer immediately after, when the age of the characters might technically not quite make the cut.

There seems to be an understanding that it is allowed so long as it is explicitly stated that they are 18 and that they are at least seniors. It hews to the letter of the law while still allowing readers to understand that experience. Some high school seniors are legitimately 18, but either way, the reader relates it to their own high school days and how it felt then. These days especially, having a character have their first sexual experiences in college would seem strange.

It would push the bounds of that understanding to mix college age or older with high school age. That creates an entirely different kind of dynamic that does indeed just feel wrong. I wouldn't write that story, and not just because of the rules. I have stories set in high school/summer after graduation, and everyone involved is that age. If any character is older, they are all at least college age.

*The CDC reports that the average age of losing one's virginity is 17.3 years for women and 17.0 years for men, according to 2011-2015 research data.

 

[intim8]

I've rarely come across those - some medical fetish ones with an amazingly naive protagonist, maybe.

I have a WIP with a character who is 19 and he has literally never seen a woman, didn't even know they exist or what sex is. He grew up in a cult and one day escapes only to come upon two women frolicing in a pond in bathing suits.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I have a WIP with a character who is 19 and he has literally never seen a woman, didn't even know they exist or what sex is. He grew up in a cult and one day escapes only to come upon two women frolicing in a pond in bathing suits.

Now if Iain Banks were writing another book following the success of Whit (young woman raised in cult has to venture across Britain...), that could be the plotline and he'd have made it all sound totally plausible. And I'd drop a lot to read it.

No pressure...

 

[intim8]

Now if Iain Banks were writing another book following the success of Whit (young woman raised in cult has to venture across Britain...), that could be the plotline and he'd have made it all sound totally plausible. And I'd drop a lot to read it.

No pressure...

If I could write like Banks, I'd... well, I probably wouldn't be doing it here. And now I'm going to have to read Whit.

I have the backstory for this worked out in my head. It is in the Aces universe, but a sideline, far in the future when the world population is reduced to less than 1% of what it is now. So I have some built-in plausibility since it isn't bound by today's societal context.

The world is a strange mix of back to the stone age and still having some technology. And all the science is still known, but there aren't enough people to do much with it.

The cult rigidly keeps men and women apart, not even knowing about each other (except the elders, of course). Mating happens by decree, and in rigidly controlled circumstances, and those chosen are never allowed contact with the group they were raised in.

The MC hasn't been chosen yet, but he sees some of his fellow age-group males taken away never to be seen or heard from again. He wanders off, and finds that there is a world out there that is somewhat recognizable as our own, except for the drastically reduced population tech level.

It's kind of half inspired by an M Night Shamalan movie, the one with a cult that appears to be set in Puritan times, shortly after the Americas were first settled by Europeans. In the movie, a girl escapes simply by walking out through the woods (they were told there were things in the woods that would tear them apart), only to come upon a 4 lane highway full of cars. (His "big twist" at the end of all his movies).

Except this starts with the escapee and goes from there. And of course, he has a lot to learn about women.

No promises...

 

[tenyari]

I haven't seen many, maybe none, where the characters come off as 14. Less than 18, yes, but not that much less.

Yeah I didn't want to sidetrack things too much but it's been a thing I keep seeing. And most recently I've been exploring the 'recent' stories sections of some categories so this wasn't the expected older stories issue that set me off - but it has been an issue I've noticed repeatedly in my "if not for that" favorite category of exhib.

Characters with things like bodies that have barely if not even yet started puberty. Sometimes abnormally short. Lacking pubic hair because it hasn't grown in yet. No idea what their own genitalia does (somehow didn't have any sex-ed classes in high school?), are attending a "somehow all 18" high school (these do exist: if you fail a grade or get pregnant or are a gang kid or have a disability the district doesn't have respect for - you end up in one. But the stories I've seen are not about 'GED / remedial / get them away from my children' schools like that). An innocence about life that is just staggering often pops up in these stories.

I get the idea of a story about someone "raised by zen turtles in the remote inverted sky forest of Xanali" having never met a person of the opposite sex. But that's not the sort of thing that's been popping up in the tales I've been reading.

I keep seeing stories that I highly suspect are also posted on other sites with a little re-wording to make it in middle school or high school freshman.

*The CDC reports that the average age of losing one's virginity is 17.3 years for women and 17.0 years for men, according to 2011-2015 research data.

I think I was 22.

So I perfectly get people not being experienced. But I'd also had sex-ed by then, seen some adult content, etc.

 

[intim8]

Characters with things like bodies that have barely if not even yet started puberty. Sometimes abnormally short. Lacking pubic hair because it hasn't grown in yet. No idea what their own genitalia does

I honestly haven't seen that. I'd back out too.

 

[Astrotrain]

If you want to keep giving me advice, on the first one I meant the 18 year olds should have the run of their houses on an extended basis, not just one weekend or something.