Anne_Prospere
Really Really Experienced
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hearty. My bottom is hearty.
the problem with D/s and free flowing conversation
- Thread starter Anne_Prospere
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hearty. My bottom is hearty.
Kajira Callista
Empty
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Marquis
Jack Dawkins
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And tender.
Kajira Callista
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you will figure it out. I have faith in you lol
JMohegan
.
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At this point, I'd say the take-away is: By twisting the topic to be all about you, you've sorta proven her point.
bridgeburner
threadkiller
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the captians wench
sewing wench
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Actually, I had a very simular problem, when I was a blossoming subbie.
I sincerely believed that my opionion didn't matter and when I was asked a question, rather than answering how I thought, I answered how I thought he wanted it to be answered. In my case, this wasn't brought on by anything he did, but by my own deductions into what I thought a D/s relationship ment.
Would you like chicken for dinner?
If that's what you'd like, sir.
Do you want spanked tonight?
If you'd like to spank me, sir.
It was very frusterating to him, and to me because I thought that I was saying what he wanted me to say, and answering in the proper way. Turned out, he didn't want a robot or a yes man. And while this type of thing does work in some relationships, it wasn't for us.
It took time for me to understand that disagreeing with his opionion didn't mean that I was being disrespectful, as long as that's how he saw it, this may or may not be the case for you.
The truth of the matter is, often, I don't have an opionion or prefference. Which is another thing that annoyed the hell out of him. I still don't, but he knows now, when I do, I will speak up about it.
I sincerely believed that my opionion didn't matter and when I was asked a question, rather than answering how I thought, I answered how I thought he wanted it to be answered. In my case, this wasn't brought on by anything he did, but by my own deductions into what I thought a D/s relationship ment.
Would you like chicken for dinner?
If that's what you'd like, sir.
Do you want spanked tonight?
If you'd like to spank me, sir.
It was very frusterating to him, and to me because I thought that I was saying what he wanted me to say, and answering in the proper way. Turned out, he didn't want a robot or a yes man. And while this type of thing does work in some relationships, it wasn't for us.
It took time for me to understand that disagreeing with his opionion didn't mean that I was being disrespectful, as long as that's how he saw it, this may or may not be the case for you.
The truth of the matter is, often, I don't have an opionion or prefference. Which is another thing that annoyed the hell out of him. I still don't, but he knows now, when I do, I will speak up about it.
intothewoods
Truth seeker
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Ha, that's good!
Is this an introvert/extrovert thing? Mister Man and I seem to talk about these labels a lot, since he self-identifies as an introvert, and I'm pretty much totally an extrovert. I relax by gabbing with my friends. I get energy from other people. My PYL likes his quiet time. When he's stressed, he wants to retreat and think about things from every angle. I want to talk to every one of my friends about it until I've worked it through.
Just throwing that out there.
ownedsubgal
lost little girl
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the turn this topic has taken is wayyy too confusing for me to even attempt to figure out, however i wanted to respond to the issue of not being able to have free and natural conversation with one's Dominant.
despite being owned for 8 years now, this is still an issue between my Master and i. of course i know that he doesn't want a mindless drone with no opinions, or a parrot to simply mimick his own thoughts, however there are boundaries. one of those is arguing. naturally, i have no desire to ever argue with my Master. but his idea of an argument, and my idea of an argument, are quite different. what he means when he says he does not wish for me to argue with him, is that he does not wish to hear any disagreement or opposing viewpoint on any topic, unless he has directly asked for said opinion. sounds simple enough, but by nature i am what he calls a "contrary" person. so we could be having the most meaningless and casual of conversations, he might look up at the sky and mention how it's going to storm soon and before even thinking about it i'll mention how i heard it's going to be calm weather all day. this is being contrary, argumentative, and he hates it. but for whatever reason, while it has been stifled quite a bit, i have been unable to completely do away with this particular habit.
then also there is the fact that even when he will directly ask for my opinion, he may still not necessarily want to know my ACTUAL opinion, instead he wishes for me to respond in a manner appropriate for my place and status. the question really will be more of a mini-test, to gauge whether or not i am thinking unselfishly.
and then there are yet other times when he does want my 100% true, honest opinion....but my 100% true, honest opinion will piss him off, no matter how respectfully or humbly it is expressed. He does not enjoy being pissed off, especially not by his own slave, but what can you do?
so, all of these factors can make open expression difficult at times. my Master is my best friend, the best friend i've ever had in life by far, but this does not translate to being able to share any and everything with him, or to being able to have a conversation without first thinking of exactly what i am going to say and how i am going to say it. the solution to this? beats me...i've sort of accepted it as a slave's dilemma.
despite being owned for 8 years now, this is still an issue between my Master and i. of course i know that he doesn't want a mindless drone with no opinions, or a parrot to simply mimick his own thoughts, however there are boundaries. one of those is arguing. naturally, i have no desire to ever argue with my Master. but his idea of an argument, and my idea of an argument, are quite different. what he means when he says he does not wish for me to argue with him, is that he does not wish to hear any disagreement or opposing viewpoint on any topic, unless he has directly asked for said opinion. sounds simple enough, but by nature i am what he calls a "contrary" person. so we could be having the most meaningless and casual of conversations, he might look up at the sky and mention how it's going to storm soon and before even thinking about it i'll mention how i heard it's going to be calm weather all day. this is being contrary, argumentative, and he hates it. but for whatever reason, while it has been stifled quite a bit, i have been unable to completely do away with this particular habit.
then also there is the fact that even when he will directly ask for my opinion, he may still not necessarily want to know my ACTUAL opinion, instead he wishes for me to respond in a manner appropriate for my place and status. the question really will be more of a mini-test, to gauge whether or not i am thinking unselfishly.
and then there are yet other times when he does want my 100% true, honest opinion....but my 100% true, honest opinion will piss him off, no matter how respectfully or humbly it is expressed. He does not enjoy being pissed off, especially not by his own slave, but what can you do?
so, all of these factors can make open expression difficult at times. my Master is my best friend, the best friend i've ever had in life by far, but this does not translate to being able to share any and everything with him, or to being able to have a conversation without first thinking of exactly what i am going to say and how i am going to say it. the solution to this? beats me...i've sort of accepted it as a slave's dilemma.
Harmony_1985
Sir's little slut
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I talk too much. Got told that at the weekend lol.
We were talking at the local munch this weekend, and it was said that a Dom never wants a sub to be compliant to the point where they don't have their own mind. They're still their own person with feelings and attitudes, and they still want them to feel free to express that.
We were talking at the local munch this weekend, and it was said that a Dom never wants a sub to be compliant to the point where they don't have their own mind. They're still their own person with feelings and attitudes, and they still want them to feel free to express that.
Anne_Prospere
Really Really Experienced
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catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
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Sounds like we share the same experience in all ways in this....and dilemma it can be.Catalina
Netzach
>semiotics?
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Catalina
When I want H to excercise his thinking/disagreeing brain I'll talk politics or tech or something I consider him more the expert on than I am. Then I can get comfortably back to 'if I want your opinion I'll tell it to you." Bonus points for me, I'm more informed than I started, too.
catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
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LOL, I can relate to that...F says he often asks my opinion because he considers me more talented or informed in that area, but being human, sometimes he also doesn't either like the way it feels, or decides he doesn't want it after all, or just can use it for his own purposes..and other days he is very thankful...and it can change from day to day....keeps me on my toes, though lately I am getting better at not rising to the bait when it is dangled for his amusement.
Catalina
Netzach
>semiotics?
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LOL, I can relate to that...F says he often asks my opinion because he considers me more talented or informed in that area, but being human, sometimes he also doesn't either like the way it feels, or decides he doesn't want it after all, or just can use it for his own purposes..and other days he is very thankful...and it can change from day to day....keeps me on my toes, though lately I am getting better at not rising to the bait when it is dangled for his amusement.
Catalina
I've found there are conflicting impulses in slavery. And that relationships fall more to one side or the other. You can have a LOT of transparency in obedience and a LOT of obedience in transparency, but eventually it's one or the other.
"I want complete obedience."
"I want complete transparency. Whatever is on your mind the moment it's there is mine."
These are mutually exclusive when you hack and slash right down to the core. H and I fall to the obedience side. M clearly falls to the "yes Mistress Asshole" transparency side.
00Syd
Secret Agent
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P and I were just having a conversation where he told me that he wanted me to always tell him how I'm feeling and I so I told him about this instance recently when he did something that annoyed me and he was like "okay, I'll stop doing that" and I had to say "no, don't stop doing it, I want to do what you say!"
So, yeah, obedience vs. transparency. interesting stuff.
ataxia.girl
D/s anarchist
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i have not read every post but it sounds to me like he wants you to feel\be something you just don't\aren't.
It doesn't really sound like this is something you are going to be able to fix from your side. You can try to feel\be what he wants but as Cat commented recently in another thread that is probably just going to lead to resentment on your part.
i need to feel totally accepted for what i am able to give without constantly feeling like there is something "missing" that is my fault. If there is something missing Daddy must figure out how to fix it and not make me worry about it. One of the reasons i submit is to not have to bear that burden.
It doesn't really sound like this is something you are going to be able to fix from your side. You can try to feel\be what he wants but as Cat commented recently in another thread that is probably just going to lead to resentment on your part.
i need to feel totally accepted for what i am able to give without constantly feeling like there is something "missing" that is my fault. If there is something missing Daddy must figure out how to fix it and not make me worry about it. One of the reasons i submit is to not have to bear that burden.
ataxia.girl
D/s anarchist
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my opinion
It takes an extremely strong Dominant to be able to handle near complete transparency and still expect complete obedience. i still believe it is possible. There are things a Dominant can require of a sub which make transparency difficult, if not impossible, but if transparency is very important to them it is up to them not to insist on those things which hinder it and to create an environment which fosters expression.
Netzach
>semiotics?
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Exactly true. It's a battle-picking issue though, and my point is that you're trying to cultivate the balance you like. Some people are fine being given a diary and a friend if they must vent.
ataxia.girl
D/s anarchist
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i'm sure it also depends on individuals. From a Dominant perspective i could easily see where they may choose to foster transparency with one sub and not with another and yeah there are lots of ways to do it.
i think Daddy might prefer for me to talk to Him directly but i don't a lot of times. i don't hide things from Him but i don't write him long missives either about how i'm feeling and what i think. i tend to put a lot of stuff out here in the ether and He can choose to read it or not. At first i expected it and was mad when He didn't but He has made it painfully clear things will be done His way on His time table. i feel very comfortable now knowing that. i think He reads stuff i write now because He sometimes mentions He has but he never comments on anything i say directly
i have no problem expressing any emotion i am feeling to Him. i like that i am free to get angry or complain and He will just deal with it; very quickly and easily i might add.
i've never had an issue telling Him my opinions when asked but He's never created an atmosphere where i felt i shouldn't.
Our relationship is new though so there is still plenty to talk about. In my 11 year marriage it waxes and wanes. Sometimes we get excited about each others interests and talk a lot. At other times we have gone long periods of time where the conversation has remained very bland. Its frustrating. Maybe you really just don't give a rats ass about the things he's asking you about and wants you to be interested in. You're trying to be a good slave and be interested which leads to all the blinking and insincerity (totally just guessing).
There are, in fact, things outside his immediate control. He can't make you have an opinion if you really just don't care or have become so in line with him your opinion really is whatever he decides to tell you it is.
i think that's enough ramble from me today.
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