The Shopkeeper

[sr71plt]

The original point was the opposite of yours.

OP insisted that he is doing his editing and that his grammar is solid, but that Literotica uses a different standard. This is simply not true. The english language is, for the most part, homogenous. There are no special grammar rules for Literotica that ASSTR doesn't like, or Amazon grammar rules that Literotica rejects.

You, though, are just an asshole who likes to get insulted. Whoever taught you how to conduct and contribute to an argument did it wrong.

I was responding to a post you posted, which I find utterly ridiculous, not to anything anyone else has posted to this thread.

And I'm quite aware of your animus towards me, which you have expressed before without any prompting from me. I'll let that be your cross to bear. I have no investment or interest in you.

Most of the folks trying to function as editors on Literotica have no editing experience whatsoever, nor are they vetted in any way before they hang their shingle out. Most stories I've seen posted that thank their editors, shouldn't have, and there's little reason they would know a good edit when they saw one anyway. That said, this isn't the New Yorker. Most stories can be enjoyed no matter what the expertise is of anyone who went over them, and a long distance toward readability is accomplished just in having another set of eyes look over it before posting. Thus, the "I'll read yours if you read mine" thread on the Editors Board is probably the most useful approach to the issue.

I thought your post was way off the wall and typical of those claiming expertise in something they only know enough about to hurt themselves and others, and I responded as such (and would do so again). And again, I post this as a degreed and experienced mainstream book editor who is vetted to the Mod of the Editors Board.

You? High school English, I'll bet. And a lot of chutzpah. (I'm watching my PMs for response to that request for your credentials as an editor.)

If what your post was supposed to mean was that Literotica itself does any content editing at all, you're still way off the beam. It doesn't. The most it does is host a misleading, unvetted, hopelessly outdated editors list of folks most of whom are long gone and nearly all of whom know nothing more about editing commercial fiction than the writers looking for editors do. The list as it exists just bogs down any writer trying to get an editor through the list. And you have to be really, really incoherent grammar wise in your story for the Literotica selection editor to reject it (as evidenced by a lot of what she lets through--which is OK with me. I don't comment on someone's grammar use in a story unless they ask for it. I leave them the hell alone to enjoy Literotica at the level they want to).

 

[AwkwardMD]

I was responding to a post you posted, which I find utterly ridiculous, not to anything anyone else has posted to this thread.
.
If what your post was supposed to mean was that Literotica itself does any content editing at all, you're still way off the beam. .

Here's an idea. Why don't you read the post I was responding to instead of inventing possible contexts under which what I said might possibly almost be incorrect or vaguely insulting. You are wasting everyones time and screen space with your pettiness.

 

[embarrassedBut]

I do wish the gurus would be more civil and encouraging to us virgins. Calling someones first story "a mess" is not helpful.

But I did get some useful feedback. I do think chapter 1 was a good place to start. It's short. I learned a lot from the mistakes I made in that chapter. I didn't learn them in time for the next two chapters. Having to resubmit it gave me the opportunity to reread it and correct the grammar. I'm still not sure what made it "a mess" though.

I just submitted chapter 4. I have reread it several times. Correcting things and adding stuff that was omitted from my original effort. If it is "a mess" then I will give it up and keep the stories to myself.

I do not plan out my story. I have very little control. I can offer suggestions. As originally told, I didn't think chapter 1 worked. The first scene was not originally a flash back and the events were told in chronological order. As a flash back, it could be told slightly out of order. I think it improved it. The biggest problem I have with my stories is keeping up.

I wrote down these stories only for myself. I would reread them a couple of years later and found that I still like them. The intricacies of the story fascinate me. I knew some of what people do to write a story; I do none of that. At least not consciously. But I think it is a good story. Some of the feed back for chapter 1 included unanswered questions. None of the stories I enjoy raise and answer questions in chapter 1. Things develop over the course of the story. My main character makes a brief appearance in chapter 4. It's easy to miss. She will be back in chapter 6. She is very interesting. There's a lot of mystery about her that we doesn't get resolved until something like chapter 20.

But chapter 4 is a good place to stop if it's not as good as I think it is.

 

[Emirus]

I do wish the gurus would be more civil and encouraging to us virgins. Calling someones first story "a mess" is not helpful.

But I did get some useful feedback. I do think chapter 1 was a good place to start. It's short. I learned a lot from the mistakes I made in that chapter. I didn't learn them in time for the next two chapters. Having to resubmit it gave me the opportunity to reread it and correct the grammar. I'm still not sure what made it "a mess" though.

I just submitted chapter 4. I have reread it several times. Correcting things and adding stuff that was omitted from my original effort. If it is "a mess" then I will give it up and keep the stories to myself.

Someone who calls a writer’s offering, whether first timer or not, a mess is either thoughtless or deliberately vindictive. I’ve only had one story published and asked for constructive criticism, some of which I received, both on this forum and on the story page.

Calling a story “a mess” or anything similar is a worthless comment unless accompanied by examples of why the critic categories it as such. Likewise with formatting and grammar criticisms. You have to give examples otherwise again the comment is worthless. I certainly wouldn’t consider giving up because of such a person.

After I read a story I ask myself whether I enjoyed it. After that I consider the technical aspects and if I want to leave a comment I give examples as to why that’s my opinion. If someone doesn’t follow that criteria then is it possible they are merely feeding their ego.

I recently read a story by an experienced writer. I enjoyed the story but there were, in my opinion, far too many unnecessary words that added nothing to the text or the story. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

 

[embarrassedBut]

Chapter 4 is now published; chapter 1 is still pending. I guess I now know how to publish my parody piece - put out a chapter 1 with two high school seniors having sex. Once chapter 2 is published, I can report chapter 1 as having underage.

They changed the category of chapter 4 to incest/taboo. Neither happened! The niece tried to seduce her uncle-in-law but he would not do it.

As I said before, I put a lot more effort into this chapter and that previous ones. I'll see if the effort was worth it.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Chapter 4 is not published; chapter 1 is still pending. I guess I now know how to publish my parody piece - put out a chapter 1 with two high school seniors having sex. Once chapter 2 is published, I can report chapter 1 as having underage.

They changed the category of chapter 4 to incest/taboo. Neither happened! The niece tried to seduce her uncle-in-law but he would not do it.

As I said before, I put a lot more effort into this chapter and that previous ones. I'll see if the effort was worth it.

I have only published in Novels & Novellas and Romance, so my experience is limited, but I would think that labelling a category "incest/taboo" indicates that that is a theme in the stories, not necessarily that it is actually described in every one.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Chapter 4 is not published; chapter 1 is still pending. I guess I now know how to publish my parody piece - put out a chapter 1 with two high school seniors having sex. Once chapter 2 is published, I can report chapter 1 as having underage.

They changed the category of chapter 4 to incest/taboo. Neither happened! The niece tried to seduce her uncle-in-law but he would not do it.

As I said before, I put a lot more effort into this chapter and that previous ones. I'll see if the effort was worth it.

I hope it is worth the effort to you, whatever others think.

 

[embarrassedBut]

I hope it is worth the effort to you, whatever others think.

The reason I'm here is to discover what others think. Otherwise, they would remain on my hard drive in an encrypted folder that would be one day lost forever. If people want the other chapters after reading the first 4, I have more.

The first 3 chapters are full of impersonal sex. That's not something I find appealing. In chapter 4, we learn about the shopkeeper. Up until this point, I thought he was a creep. I had to reread chapter 4 several times before getting it to the point that I submitted it.

 

[embarrassedBut]

I have only published in Novels & Novellas and Romance, so my experience is limited, but I would think that labelling a category "incest/taboo" indicates that that is a theme in the stories, not necessarily that it is actually described in every one.

It is hardly a theme. The character expresses interest in sex with her uncle-in-law. There is a scene where she visits with and gets to know the shopkeeper. There is another where she crashes a dinner party with another couple and the shopkeeper. And then has a very intimate sleepover with the shopkeeper. She does walk nude through uncle's bedroom to their bathroom which has a big tub.

 

[embarrassedBut]

Is there a way to see a breakdown of the rating? All I can see is the average.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Is there a way to see a breakdown of the rating? All I can see is the average.

No, that's all you get. The average, the number of Views, the number of Votes, the number of Faves, and of course you see (and can delete) any comments. But you don't see the range of Scores.

 

[embarrassedBut]

Too bad. If I kept track of it, I could back calculate it. I know the 18th rater rated it as 3. That's good enough to keep me going. 3.59 means that there have been at least some 4s.

I'm working on chapter 5. They haven't released chapter 1 but they haven't rejected it yet either.

I really wish there was a way to appeal being reported.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Too bad. If I kept track of it, I could back calculate it. I know the 18th rater rated it as 3. That's good enough to keep me going. 3.59 means that there have been at least some 4s.

I'm working on chapter 5. They haven't released chapter 1 but they haven't rejected it yet either.

Some new writers spend time watching and trying to figure it all out. It's a waste of time, as it's so unrepresentative. Figure on one vote per hundred views, one comment per thousand views. Any more comments than that means your story is either very good or very bad.

Also, you may not be aware - the site regularly "sweeps" the votes, removing one-bombs, "helpful fives" left by folk who haven't in fact read the story, and other detectable anomalies. Nobody knows the algorithms used so don't ask. Sweeps happen more frequently during competitions, but run through the whole story file, even if you don't enter comps. So if you see your View numbers drop, that's why - votes are being stripped.

My advice - wait at least thirty days before you say, "Oh, is that how my story went." That's when it actually means something - you have to wait for the dust to settle.

I really wish there was a way to appeal being reported.

You can - you get the chance to reply to the site editor via your response to the rejection notice. You either fix the problem reported by submitting an edit, or you argue your case by resubmitting without a change, and giving reasons why. It all goes to the same person ( Laurel). Usually though, an edit to remove the borderline (or breaching) content is the smartest thing to do.

Laurel's site, her rules. She is it, there's no one else to appeal to.

 

[embarrassedBut]

Thanks for that info electricblue; "sweeps" and "helpful fives" are things I was totally unprepared for. I was hoping the ratings would reflect the opinion of the reader. I guess the people that are following me are more meaningful.

Chapter 1 is finally back out with some corrections.

 

[NYcastaway]

some stories are really a 1

Lets face it...some are even a negative 1. But that seems to be considered taboo. If so why have a rating system if every one vote is viewed as suspect.

Some literotica authors seem to copy a sad formula. Lovingwives is one and interacial seems laughable for the stories that get posted there. And... a big And there also some really great stories in these categories. But with a skewed rating system you got to read a bit to find you stumbled into pure trash.

 

[embarrassedBut]

I have been unable to find all the rules. I have a story that begins when the youngest character is 16. It was rejected for the obvious reason; I failed to take note that under 18 is underage. I created a parody piece out of chapter 2 of that series. I thought it was funny and submitted it. Rejected! I can't have chapter 2 without a chapter 1. I thought of trying to submit it as chapter two but decided against.

Now, I tried submitting a story that was excerpted from that story. It was a arc that I thought was very strong. But it was rejected too. I can't do excerpts.

I'm still trying to figure out how much stock I should put into the ratings.

 

[Kantarii]

I have been unable to find all the rules. I have a story that begins when the youngest character is 16. It was rejected for the obvious reason; I failed to take note that under 18 is underage. I created a parody piece out of chapter 2 of that series. I thought it was funny and submitted it. Rejected! I can't have chapter 2 without a chapter 1. I thought of trying to submit it as chapter two but decided against.

Now, I tried submitting a story that was excerpted from that story. It was a arc that I thought was very strong. But it was rejected too. I can't do excerpts.

I'm still trying to figure out how much stock I should put into the ratings.

Just a note... if you can’t get a story published, ratings aren’t worth anything at all other than just numbers posted beside a storysad but true.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I have been unable to find all the rules.

...

I'm still trying to figure out how much stock I should put into the ratings.

FAQ: https://www.literotica.com/faq/

Scores and ratings - get yourself a body of work posted, 10 - 15 stories; you then have a single frame of reference, yourself. The ratings then make a little more sense.

You're fretting about the wrong thing. Focus on story telling, your technical chops, your style. Get those things right, your scores will settle down and become more useful. Get those thing really right, you'll see the difference.

It's always the numbers following the words. Too many new writers think it's the other way around.

But its Literotica, not Matherotica. Granted, some would pronounce that Motherotica and not be far wrong.

And for fuckssake already, repeat after me, "Sex on Literotica does not commence until your character's 18th birthday." This HAS already been pointed out to you, once or twice .

 

[embarrassedBut]

[Discussions promoting and/or accusations involving pedophilia and/or underage sexual activity prohibited per our forum guidelines. - Last Warning]

 

[embarrassedBut]

I thought it over. I see the problem! I'm the only one paying 100% attention to this thread. Someone else responding probably doesn't remember everything they've said. So they repeat themselves. I'm grateful you took the time to reply.

Oh wow! I just realized that I'm now "Experienced" and not a "Virgin".

 

[ElectricBlue]

Underage sex is not as clear cut as it may seem. In general, the age part can vary. Here, it is 18. But what constitutes sex. I actually rewrote chapter 2 of another story so that the underage teens were engaged in Bible study. They read scripture and had their "Hallelujah" moment. They used special bookmarks to keep from accidentally gaining followers in The Word. I thought it was funny.

It IS absolutely clear cut. Literotica does not permit any description of sex with characters under eighteen. You can get away with a sentence, "They lost their virginity aged fifteen," but if you go on in any way to describe the act, that's the "no." The more you go on about it - and you do, a lot - the more attention you draw to yourself. Understand the rule, don't breach it, or go. It's not hard.

How about a 14 year old girl allowing a couple of boys play with her newly developed breasts?

Breach of policy. It will be rejected.

How about parents having to deal with their children become aware of sex. The problem is only academic at this point; I'll probably never get that far.

It would depend on how you described it.

At least, I'm finally making progress with chapter 5. That one is my least favorite of the entire series. I did not like the ending. But I finally came up with a suggestion that the storyteller likes. The new ending is written. Now, we just have to rewrite the scenes leading up to it and we'll both be happy.

You keep on saying you're not happy with your own material - so why do you expect readers to be interested, if you're not?

It's not quite clear what you're actually doing, now. Noodling, maybe, finding reasons not to write, continuing this notion that you can't control your material, that there is some mysterious story teller debating with you all the time. You don't seem to be enjoying it much.

 

[embarrassedBut]

It IS absolutely clear cut. ... You keep on saying you're not happy with your own material - so why do you expect readers to be interested, if you're not?

It's not quite clear what you're actually doing, now. Noodling, maybe, finding reasons not to write, continuing this notion that you can't control your material, that there is some mysterious story teller debating with you all the time. You don't seem to be enjoying it much.

No, it is not clear cut. Repeatedly saying that it is does not make it true.

You have already told me your opinion; you do not need to repeat it.

 

[ElectricBlue]

No, it is not clear cut. Repeatedly saying that it is does not make it true.

You have already told me your opinion; you do not need to repeat it.

It's not an opinion, mate. It is clearly stated site policy, one of the few. No descriptions of sex with any character under eighteen. But, please yourself, go ahead, submit under age material, and find out Laurel's position on the content.

You came to this forum seeking advice, you've been given advice not only from me but from others, but still you go on, trying to test the rule.

 

[GrandTeton]

First, the scoring system here doesn't work terribly well but it does provide an indication of what people generally think about a story (allowing for the sake of completeness that the trolls are people, or think).

Second, underage sex in a pre-18 context is a no no, rigidly enforced, to the point that a story can be rejected simply because it's not clear that the sex wasn't underaged. The site demands absolute clarity for hurried readers, not cumulative clues. There may be good legal reasons for this or it might be the site-owner's personal morality but it is real and ought not be flouted regardless of one's personal views or its relation to the reality of pregnant twelve-year-olds. Gotta remember - it's not our site.

 

[Kantarii]

I sense a great disturbance in the force. Nah, rules are just that - rules. Those that can’t obey them keep walking into the same wall over and over without realizing where the door actually is —> over there.
Kant