Things I like about men...

[NoJo]

my husband is feline, he purrs when I stroke him, loves me when I feed him and I'm always kinda aware that he's plotting to take over the world.

I bet he uses the sandbox too.

 

[English Lady]

I bet he uses the sandbox too.

I'm not commenting, but there is a good reason we never holiday anywhere near a beach.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I feel bad. I thought I'd always been rather vocal in my appreciation of y'all, Doc.

I'll have to try harder.

No, Cloudy. You're an angel, as are most of the AH'ers.

But I think most men's attitude towards their masculinity these days is basically one of mild shame and discomfort. We all walk around with an apology at the ready and after a while it just feels natural, like part of who we are: the despicable sex.

 

[cloudy]

No, Cloudy. You're an angel, as are most of the AH'ers.

But I think most men's attitude towards their masculinity these days is basically one of mild shame and discomfort. We all walk around with an apology at the ready and after a while it just feels natural, like part of who we are: the despicable sex.

Well, if it helps any, I think y'all are wonderful (with just a couple of exceptions )

 

[NoJo]

I went on a "bender" yesterday. Eight hours of heavy drinking, men and women. The men got quieter and quieter, the women louder and louder. I can't remember the point of this post.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

beat ya to it, but of course, mentioning it more than once ISN'T a bad thing.

mmmmmm agreed!

my husband is feline, he purrs when I stroke him, loves me when I feed him and I'm always kinda aware that he's plotting to take over the world.

<---definitely the feline in the family

But I think most men's attitude towards their masculinity these days is basically one of mild shame and discomfort. We all walk around with an apology at the ready and after a while it just feels natural, like part of who we are: the despicable sex.

sad, and true... well, not REALLY true, but true that men feel this way... you know what I mean...!

<---wants less men walking around feeling this way... *sigh*

 

[English Lady]

I'm with Cloudy, I love men. I love your masculinity!


And , of course, I love you Dr M

 

[Guest]

Hey - loving men is still in! Yah - hooo!
I love it when they come hard for you. Then lie there and shake their heads and go - "Wow - jeez - huh - that was - whew! Great honey."

 

[Belegon]

But I think most men's attitude towards their masculinity these days is basically one of mild shame and discomfort. We all walk around with an apology at the ready and after a while it just feels natural, like part of who we are: the despicable sex.

I agree that this has become almost second nature to us...I fight it internally when considering myself, but the fact that I feel it needs to be fought says something all by itself, does it not?

 

[NoJo]

I agree that this has become almost second nature to us...I fight it internally when considering myself, but the fact that I feel it needs to be fought says something all by itself, does it not?

I really don't know what that means. I guess it must be an American phenomoneon, part of Politcal Correctness, which hasn't affected Europe to such an extent. Something to do with metrosexuals.

I'd like an example of how it happens that men have to aplogize for their masculinity.

I'm having trouble with it, because I keep thinking of Madonna proudly saying how she likes to be the housewife and for her hubby to be the Man of the House, like she's being provactive, and standing against some cultural pressure. But I just can't see that pressure she's reacting against. (Madonna lives in the UK).

 

[shereads]

Shame is the new black. You can wear it with anything.

Women survive in the corporate world with unfeminine, aggressive behavior and feel ashamed. We feel angry about feeling ashamed, and we have to blame somebody, so we make men feel ashamed. "You passed me over for a promotion, you bastard - and you keep starting wars! You're also responsible for child prostitution in Phillipine bordellos, and leaving the toilet seat up!"

We don't really mean it. It's just been a difficult century.

 

[shereads]

I'm having trouble with it, because I keep thinking of Madonna proudly saying how she likes to be the housewife and for her hubby to be the Man of the House, like she's being provactive, and standing against some cultural pressure.

If Madonna is a housewife, Martha Stewart makes her own Christmas decorations out of leftover dry cleaning bags.

Didn't Marie Antoinette have a little milkmaid outfit and some cows?

[/threadjack]

I like it when men use the word 'pressure.' No matter the context, it sounds sexual.

 

[3113]

If Madonna is a housewife, Martha Stewart makes her own Christmas decorations out of leftover dry cleaning bags.

Didn't Marie Antoinette have a little milkmaid outfit and some cows?

LOL! Well, I think Martha COULD make decorations out of dry cleaning bags...lets remember she had to rough it while in prision. But I seriously doubt Madonna's doing anything "housewife-ish"--not with nannies and maids and cooks at her beck and call.

Or is it housewife-ish to yell at the help?

Does sound very Marie Antionette...but then, it's just Madonna hijacking another archtype for herself. And those archtypes are always feminine and hold some attraction for men. She started out as the "Lolita Slut" with "Like a Virgin," went onto the pink Marilyn Monroe look, and then onto the dominatrix. All female types. Housewife is certainly the next, logical archtype for her to appropriate and pretend to be. I'm not sure there are many others that she hasn't already tried.

Being fair, she's certainly been savvy in her choices--hence her success. Even in male garb she went for that sexy, Marlene Dietrich look. Never for a butch look that might have been unfeminine and unattractive to men.

 

[Norajane]

But I think most men's attitude towards their masculinity these days is basically one of mild shame and discomfort. We all walk around with an apology at the ready and after a while it just feels natural, like part of who we are: the despicable sex.

I agree that this has become almost second nature to us...I fight it internally when considering myself, but the fact that I feel it needs to be fought says something all by itself, does it not?

I don't doubt that you gentlemen feel this, but I honestly wouldn't have realized that you are uncomfortable had you not said this.



Is this a general unease, or are there situations that trigger this feeling?

 

[Norajane]

If Madonna is a housewife, Martha Stewart makes her own Christmas decorations out of leftover dry cleaning bags.

Didn't Marie Antoinette have a little milkmaid outfit and some cows?

[/threadjack]

I like it when men use the word 'pressure.' No matter the context, it sounds sexual.

I think Madonna had a Marie Antoinette outfit - wasn't it in her Vogue video? No cows, just back-up dancers.

 

[Belegon]

I don't doubt that you gentlemen feel this, but I honestly wouldn't have realized that you are uncomfortable had you not said this.



Is this a general unease, or are there situations that trigger this feeling?

It's been going on my whole life...and I think my generation feels it as strongly as any...we're old enough to still touch base with attitudes of the fifties and before, even if we don't share those attitudes. Many of our fathers had those beliefs and instilled them, or at least attempted to, in us. At the very least our grandfathers who fought in World War II had them and expressed them comfortably in front of us.

I came of age in a time when gender roles in this country were in flux. I was a teenager who had been taught the value of being a gentleman and yet I have a very vivid memory from March of 1985, being chewed out (and I am NOT overstating this) by a woman at a grocery store in Lakeside, Calif. for having the audacity to open a door for her, as though she were too weak to do it herself. Think how experiencing that would feel to a 19 year old who just wanted to be polite.

I was given feedback in the media and to my face that my gender had held the other one down and persecuted them for thousands of years and was given the impression that these were my ills to cure and bear responsibility for.

To someone searching for their adult identity between 1975-1985, masculinity could often be perceived as a burden to overcome.

Our role models were contradictory. John Wayne or Alan Alda? Strong or sensitive? Is it OK to show any emotion, let alone cry? Remember not to objectify sacred woman, but buy this poster of Farah Fawcett or Bo Derek....the messages were confusing at best.

Now, some will want to respond to this defensively..."Oh, you think it's hard to be a middle class white male? Try being ___________. You have it so good!"

So what? Ever heard me moan about it before? I'm not claiming my road was any more difficult than yours. But I definitely have felt as Zoot stated. Less now than I once did. But I still sometimes feel defensive about being male.

 

[Norajane]

It's been going on my whole life...and I think my generation feels it as strongly as any...we're old enough to still touch base with attitudes of the fifties and before, even if we don't share those attitudes. Many of our fathers had those beliefs and instilled them, or at least attempted to, in us. At the very least our grandfathers who fought in World War II had them and expressed them comfortably in front of us.

I came of age in a time when gender roles in this country were in flux. I was a teenager who had been taught the value of being a gentleman and yet I have a very vivid memory from March of 1985, being chewed out (and I am NOT overstating this) by a woman at a grocery store in Lakeside, Calif. for having the audacity to open a door for her, as though she were too weak to do it herself. Think how experiencing that would feel to a 19 year old who just wanted to be polite.

I was given feedback in the media and to my face that my gender had held the other one down and persecuted them for thousands of years and was given the impression that these were my ills to cure and bear responsibility for.

To someone searching for their adult identity between 1975-1985, masculinity could often be perceived as a burden to overcome.

Our role models were contradictory. John Wayne or Alan Alda? Strong or sensitive? Is it OK to show any emotion, let alone cry? Remember not to objectify sacred woman, but buy this poster of Farah Fawcett or Bo Derek....the messages were confusing at best.

Now, some will want to respond to this defensively..."Oh, you think it's hard to be a middle class white male? Try being ___________. You have it so good!"

So what? Ever heard me moan about it before? I'm not claiming my road was any more difficult than yours. But I definitely have felt as Zoot stated. Less now than I once did. But I still sometimes feel defensive about being male.

Do you think the confusion is worse for boys/teens/men today than it was?

I never feel I have to apologize for being a woman, but I do feel as though I am at a disadvantage most of the time - probably because of the field I work in, which is mostly male. I never felt the disadvantage when I was in high school or college, but my unease has grown over the years rather than lessened.

Of course, that may also have to do with age and the way society views older women as 'old'.

 

[Belegon]

Do you think the confusion is worse for boys/teens/men today than it was?

I never feel I have to apologize for being a woman, but I do feel as though I am at a disadvantage most of the time - probably because of the field I work in, which is mostly male. I never felt the disadvantage when I was in high school or college, but my unease has grown over the years rather than lessened.

Of course, that may also have to do with age and the way society views older women as 'old'.

I think it is less of an issue for a teenage boy today then it was...the "militant" faction of aggressive "I don't want or need your help" sexism has died down greatly. Also, they have grown up in a world where gender roles are more fluid and it is automatic for them. Thankfully. When I was 10 years old, an astronaut was male. A nurse was female. The only professional sports women played were seemingly tennis and golf. A man who was a single father was a widower. In "The Courtship of Eddie's Father", divorce was not even a possibility. Of course the mom had died, why else would the father be raising him alone?

We obviously still have a long ways to go. But the light at the end of the tunnel can now be said to most likely not be a train. And that certainly could not be said 100 years ago, or even thirty.

Now, complacency is a danger to equal rights. That was much less true in 1975. Apathy or a feeling that it did not need to be worked on was much lower on the list of concerns.

Now, you bring up one area where the progress has not been as great...and I don't mean the workplace in general, although that certainly qualifies as well. I mean the age thing. The double standard of days past is still stronger there then in many other areas. Which just proves that the real objective has not been reached yet.

 

[English Lady]

Bel, I don't know wether it helps much in the grand scale of things but I have this urge to find the impolite woman who trod all over your polite door holding etiquette because she had some kind of agenda. I hold the door open for anyone and expect the same from others, anything less is just rude. So, it's a few years to late, but I'm in your corner


I love how a man can make me feel feminine just from a few words or a small gesture. I really like that.

 

[welfare mom]

I just luv being fucked! I have to say it, men's penis's and being penatrated really turns me on.

I luv it when a guy is aggressive in bed an he just pins me down *omfg* that just gets me off.

Be a man, we all want it like that. I like confedence, not arrogant. *shivers*

 

[NoJo]

I just luv being fucked! I have to say it, men's penis's and being penatrated really turns me on.

I luv it when a guy is aggressive in bed an he just pins me down *omfg* that just gets me off.

Be a man, we all want it like that. I like confedence, not arrogant. *shivers*

arrogance is almost the opposite of confidence.

 

[3113]

Bel, I don't know wether it helps much in the grand scale of things but I have this urge to find the impolite woman who trod all over your polite door holding etiquette because she had some kind of agenda. I hold the door open for anyone and expect the same from others, anything less is just rude.

I have to smile about this because this happened to me just the other day. An older gentleman (completely gray haired) reached a Starbucks at the same time I did and he jumped for the door even as I reached for it.

He frowned at me as I hesitated, expecting, I think, for me to snarl at him that I could get it myself, and said, with a little lift of the chin, "Some of us are still gentlemen and hold a door open for a lady."

I thanked him very politely and entered, but what was going through my mind was this: "But, sir, you're a respected elder and being the younger of us, it is my place to hold the door open for you...."

That's why I'd hesitated. If he'd been a young man I wouldn't have blinked, but as he was an older gent, it didn't seem right. A clash of upbringing there.

 

[3113]

To someone searching for their adult identity between 1975-1985, masculinity could often be perceived as a burden to overcome.

A rough time in all respects for white males. You guys got the brunt for every sin committed by every white male over the last, oh, 2000 years or so--from women and minorities.

From about 1970 on up to 1985 all the anger anyone was feeling for what had been done to them, their parents, or their ancestors just erupted. It did cool down and yeilded some good fruit--like women doctors and female corporate bosses who don't have to act like men in order to compete and male nurses and stay-at-home dads--but the good got dragged down with the bad in many instances before things stablized. The black power movement, for example, rejected and held as the enemy a good many white folk who had, only a decade before, joined up with the civil rights movement in order to put an end to Jim Crow laws.

I think it's the way with movements. Call it their nasty adolescent years where they snarl, "I can do it myself, I don't need you!"--and add in, "You don't understand!" and "I hate you!" They create their own dress code and slang. It's their way of carving out an idenitity and gaining respect. Perhaps it's also the step all movements take when fighting a war. The point at which they're so tired of being on the defence that they switch to offense.

And they can't quite be blamed for that. The fierceness of the opposition that's been getting in their way puts them on that offensive (Example: the way the Equal Rights Amendment was ruthlessly put down with a smear campaign on supporters: The women who argued the anti-side dressed in pink, to imply that those in favor of said amendment were not women; they hinted that supporters were lesbians, and they insisted that the end result of passing the amendment would be co-ed bathrooms--which, of course, hijacked the argument. Serious discussion of the benefits of the amendment--or it's faults--were rendered impossible.) When not taken seriously, people get angry. They learn to shoot first and ask questions later. And that means, in cases such as yours, that there's friendly fire casualities.

I recall vividly a feminist book store where men were glared at and the emphasis was on the "goddess"--no god needed. However, the women who were the vanguard of that moment have seriously mellowed and for good reason. They decided to have kids...and when they gave birth to sons, well, their hatred of males eased quite a bit.

 

[Mercurius]

A rough time in all respects for white males.

Well, other than the ability to get better jobs, get paid more for the same jobs, get better educations, gain access to cultural and social institutions that were controlled by *other* white males and get elected more easily into political office, yeah, I guess it was a pretty raw deal.

Seriously, is this still the anti-PC backlash rolling along? I mean, I'm not trying to flame anyone here, but come on. "Poor white males got blamed for so much bad stuff." Yeah. Because we're the ones who fucked everything up!

Yes, yes, I know, things are much more complicated than all that, but I don't think it's time to throw a pity party for The Man just yet.

 

[Liar]

Well, other than the ability to get better jobs, get paid more for the same jobs, get better educations, gain access to cultural and social institutions that were controlled by *other* white males and get elected more easily into political office, yeah, I guess it was a pretty raw deal.

Seriously, is this still the anti-PC backlash rolling along? I mean, I'm not trying to flame anyone here, but come on. "Poor white males got blamed for so much bad stuff." Yeah. Because we're the ones who fucked everything up!

Yes, yes, I know, things are much more complicated than all that, but I don't think it's time to throw a pity party for The Man just yet.

Not for Men as a demography group, no.

Man as an individual, now there's a different cookie.

If you want to identify yourself with said up-fuckers, be my guest. I have more in common with women of today than with the men of yesteryears.