Twenty States Will Raise Their Minimum Wage on January 1st

[Que]

Addenda: I only read to the first question mark. I'm ideologically opposed to responding seriatim and only provide one answer per post.

Johnny is obviously a man of letters. "Now I really hate him..."

• Seriatim

How do I not know this word? In context, I garnered the meaning, but I looked it up to find you were far too generous in assigning the label to the...off the top of my head...Gish Gallop.

 

[JohnnySavage]

I am pretty sure there are not 30,000,000 Johnny-level, qualified consultants that just didn't happen to get counted.

I have been "uncounted" in similar work. As an appraiser my work always bottlenecked in the middle of the month for 7-10 days. $50-$200 an hour is OK money if you could make the workflow consistent. When I was working 30-40-50 hours a week unpaid scrambling for assignments that I could actually accept and complete in a way that might result in another future assignment only to net $1000 a month it was time to get out. The problem with being self employed is no one ever evaluates whther you can afford to keep yourself employed or whther it is time to give yourself a pink slip. Well other than the back of envelope accounting that comes with not making your crust of bread.

Your particular consultancy might have utility in the current environment, mine and a lot of of other did not.

Architects and contractor consultants and model home decorators and lots of other self employed people are not working. The surveys actually do count you and your kind if they happen to call you. "Hey Johnny, didja earn your crust of bread this week?"

It isn't as if the labor participation rate is telling us something different than the household surveys.

There's only one Johnny.

But there are lots of people leaving the conventional workforce, either by choice or not, that start working for themselves either as a sole-proprietor, LLC or some other pass-through entity. That's the wave of future labor and it's not accounted for in U6.

Who wants to work 9-5 for some schmuck when you can sell your skills to the highest bidders.

 

[PoppingTom]

There are always positive and negative consequences of any action taken. Raising the minimum wage costs the poor more than it benefits them by removing entry level jobs from the marketplace and cementing poverty and dependence.

You obviously do not agree.

Well, it's strange that things in America work so much different than in Germany.

I know somebody who once worked for 5, 60 € /hour, he could have stayed at home , as the wage was 700€, just 50 € over the SS. He benefits a lot from the minimum wage of 8,70 € today, and he said that the minimum wage killed the bad enterprises, the price pressers that sometimes even worked below material cost.

 

[Que]

Most middle class home owners do not take it off their taxes - it's only available if you itemize your deductions.

Hmm not sure if that is true. It may be true now with the historically low interest rates.

Typically in the 7% and up range even for a modest home that was the deduction that made itemizing the rest worth doing.

7% of 200K is $14,000 in interest.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Most middle class home owners do not take it off their taxes - it's only available if you itemize your deductions.

You mean, most everybody with a mortgage deducts it. Unless the interest you paid is less than the standard deduction, which is hard to imagine.

 

[RjThoughts]

Hmm not sure if that is true. It may be true now with the historically low interest rates.

Typically in the 7% and up range even for a modest home that was the deduction that made itemizing the rest worth doing.

7% of 200K is $14,000 in interest.

Try again. You're allowed ONLY to take off that what you paid during the year. You receive a form from the mortgage holder, telling you what you paid in taxes, what you paid in interest, and what you received in interest.

 

[RjThoughts]

You mean, most everybody with a mortgage deducts it. Unless the interest you paid is less than the standard deduction, which is hard to imagine.

Um, you do know that you can take off only that you paid DURING that year?

 

[JohnnySavage]

Um, you do know that you can take off only that you paid DURING that year?

No shit.

A modest home with an $1,100 a month mortgage, you are looking at about $12,000 a year in mortgage interest.

I don't know what the standard deduction is, but I bet it's a whole lot less than $12,000.

 

[RjThoughts]

No shit.

A modest home with an $1,100 a month mortgage, you are looking at about $12,000 a year in mortgage interest.

I don't know what the standard deduction is, but I bet it's a whole lot less than $12,000.

You're math is wrong. Look at the tax form you receive from your mortgage holder. It will tell you how much you paid in interest.

We paid HALF of the house in cash, pay only $700/month, and are now paying on the principal - year 22 of a 30 year loan.

 

[JohnnySavage]

You're math is wrong. Look at the tax form you receive from your mortgage holder. It will tell you how much you paid in interest.

We paid HALF of the house in cash, pay only $700/month, and are now paying on the principal - year 22 of a 30 year loan.

Yours isn't an example of the average home owner; certainly not "most" middle class home owners.

 

[Que]

You're math is wrong. Look at the tax form you receive from your mortgage holder. It will tell you how much you paid in interest.

We paid HALF of the house in cash, pay only $700/month, and are now paying on the principal - year 22 of a 30 year loan.

Most of the middle class is far more leveraged than you are. As you get closer to killing off the mortgage (mort means death, ha!) it matters less. Some people re-leverage or roll it into ever bigger homes for that reason which I think is a bad idea.

Congrats on the end in sight, by the way.

 

[Que]

Try again. You're allowed ONLY to take off that what you paid during the year. You receive a form from the mortgage holder, telling you what you paid in taxes, what you paid in interest, and what you received in interest.

My example was overly simplistic and would apply only to the very first year of such a loan. It takes years before principle reduction on a 30 year note matters. It isn;t a strait-line paydown, most of the paydown is once your contribution to principle is finally significant and that hits well after halfway through the loan.

When I was teaching myself Lotus, I did a 360 month spreadsheet. It was eye-opening.

I refinanced to get a 15 year note. Well, then life, a marriage, kids, a recession, and a divorce happened, but I was on my way to trump-status...well not the mutiple bankruptcy part....

 

[KingOrfeo]

Johnny is obviously a man of letters. "Now I really hate him..."

• Seriatim

How do I not know this word? In context, I garnered the meaning, but I looked it up to find you were far too generous in assigning the label to the...off the top of my head...Gish Gallop.

No, this is what "Gish Gallop" means.

 

[Que]

There's only one Johnny.

But there are lots of people leaving the conventional workforce, either by choice or not, that start working for themselves either as a sole-proprietor, LLC or some other pass-through entity. That's the wave of future labor and it's not accounted for in U6.

Who wants to work 9-5 for some schmuck when you can sell your skills to the highest bidders.

I am biased because I was good at the analysis (which really means justifying your analysis, not necessarily being right) but SUCKED at the self employment/record-keeping end of things. ADHD and a touch of "fuck-it-isn't-perfect" OCD.

I realize some people do happily drop out, some are forced out and find it to be a good thing after all. It takes a bit of self displine, a lot of energy (in your case in spurts I gather) and you have to already have a marketable skill or certification.

I still (guess) that the number is minor. I'd have to roll it around a little and read some but U6 doesn't miss all self-employed. I'm wool gathering to think of how they know what they know.

There are 30,000,000 people with no paycheck though. I would be shocked if 3,000,000 of them are off the grid. I dunno, pimps drug dealers, hmmm.

I think our differing bias on this is because you are thinking if Johnny can do it lotsa people can, and I am thinking Query sucked at it, lots of people would flounder.

 

[JohnnySavage]

I am biased because I was good at the analysis (which really means justifying your analysis, not necessarily being right) but SUCKED at the self employment/record-keeping end of things. ADHD and a touch of "fuck-it-isn't-perfect" OCD.

I realize some people do happily drop out, some are forced out and find it to be a good thing after all. It takes a bit of self displine, a lot of energy (in your case in spurts I gather) and you have to already have a marketable skill or certification.

I still (guess) that the number is minor. I'd have to roll it around a little and read some but U6 doesn't miss all self-employed. I'm wool gathering to think of how they know what they know.

There are 30,000,000 people with no paycheck though. I would be shocked if 3,000,000 of them are off the grid. I dunno, pimps drug dealers, hmmm.

I think our differing bias on this is because you are thinking if Johnny can do it lotsa people can, and I am thinking Query sucked at it, lots of people would flounder.

Back to the beginning... my only point was that U6 is popular now because it looks like people are sitting around - i.e. not counted in the labor force.

That's simply not true. U6 is higher for a lot of reasons, not all of them something nefarious we can hang around BHOs neck.

A basic calculation is: how many people want a job - how many jobs are there = unemployment rate that makes the news; and, How many people are over 18 - how many people are working (for a conventional employer) - U6.

Looking at U6 now is only popular because it can be twisted to make BHO bad. He really doesn't need any help.

 

[Que]

Back to the beginning... my only point was that U6 is popular now because it looks like people are sitting around - i.e. not counted in the labor force.

That's simply not true. U6 is higher for a lot of reasons, not all of them something nefarious we can hang around BHOs neck.

A basic calculation is: how many people want a job - how many jobs are there = unemployment rate that makes the news; and, How many people are over 18 - how many people are working (for a conventional employer) - U6.

Looking at U6 now is only popular because it can be twisted to make BHO bad. He really doesn't need any help.

Well its a point. U3 though for the opposite reasons gives a wrong impression as well. the truth is somewhere in between. Far more people parrot the nearly worthless U3 than are shouting the U6 from the rooftops.

The bolded part is not right, U3 only concerns itself with people that walked into an unemployment office and said, hey I got canned. That might not be quite right either. At one time I sat down puzzled all of those out and had it all well in hand, now I am weary about the distinctions. Bottom line is there are not Reagen Recovery levels of people working and there are not rising wages which also gives a cue about employment. Employees are not scarce.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Republicans are responsible for the unintended consequences of having a bloated welfare state? Are they also responsible for the labor participation rate when 99 week unemployment made staying home a smarter and more profitable choice than accepting a lower-waged job?

A number of Republican heavy companies lobby the fucking piss out of exactly that....Wal Mart is one of the largest, but there is a whole shit list of companies who want to keep minimum wage low so they can keep passing out food stamp applications with their new hire packets. Collectively they spend hundreds of MILLIONS every year on lobbying for exactly that.

I won't shop at any of them b/c they want their workforce subsidized by social services....which is bull fucking shit.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Well its a point. U3 though for the opposite reasons gives a wrong impression as well. the truth is somewhere in between. Far more people parrot the nearly worthless U3 than are shouting the U6 from the rooftops.

The bolded part is not right, U3 only concerns itself with people that walked into an unemployment office and said, hey I got canned. That might not be quite right either. At one time I sat down puzzled all of those out and had it all well in hand, now I am weary about the distinctions. Bottom line is there are not Reagen Recovery levels of people working and there are not rising wages which also gives a cue about employment. Employees are not scarce.

U3 is what we've always looked to as a metric. Other than a few dorky economists at DOL, nobody had ever heard of U6 until BHO got elected.

 

[Que]

U3 is what we've always looked to as a metric. Other than a few dorky economists at DOL, nobody had ever heard of U6 until BHO got elected.

In a rising economy its a reasonable look at employee turnover and layoffs. In a stagnant or declining economy, when the average time to find new employment exceeds the time that they stay on that index it becomes less useful.

 

[RjThoughts]

Yours isn't an example of the average home owner; certainly not "most" middle class home owners.

We're middle class, we don't make millions or billions. Only reason we were able to pay half in cash was due to the fact that we had 3 relatives pass away and leave us money.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Most middle class home owners do not take it off their taxes - it's only available if you itemize your deductions.

I take it back - I should have read the thread b4 commenting

 

[RjThoughts]

If you have mortgage interest and do not itemize I am pretty sure you are leaving money on the table. Did you read that fact somewhere?

Most people do not know you can take the interest paid off. Only those that have theirs done professionally take it.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Most people do not know you can take the interest paid off. Only those that have theirs done professionally take it.

I figured most people use software now a days and just answer the questions.

 

[RjThoughts]

What's frustrating is that we're paying over $5000/year for kid's college - tuition, fees, miscellaneous - and can only take off $2000 of it