Umpqua

[doctor_insanus]

I'm perfectly willing to live in a country where guns are available.

I'm just sick of living in a country where one party is owned by the gun lobby, and the other has been bullied into complacency.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I'm perfectly willing to live in a country where guns are available.

I'm just sick of living in a country where one party is owned by the gun lobby, and the other has been bullied into complacency.

You might be but a lot of the left has a major fucking problem with it....


IMO they aren't bullied into complacency, they are fucked by 2A. Until they have enough votes to go in and trump that there really isn't much they can do other than ban gun accessories in an attempt to placate the anti gun crowd.

But I get what you mean, unfortunate side effect of letting money into politics on the level we do.

 

[richard_daily]

How many countries can you name that want to invade other countries and control their citizens by force?

I can name only one, myself.

You must have left all of your history books somewhere out of reach.

 

[richard_daily]

I'm perfectly willing to live in a country where guns are available.

I'm just sick of living in a country where one party is owned by the gun lobby, and the other has been bullied into complacency.

That's what we get for accepting a two-party system.

 

[Que]

I'm perfectly willing to live in a country where guns are available.

I'm just sick of living in a country where one party is owned by the <insert abortion or any other hot button issue> lobby, and the other has been bullied into complacency.

No one "owns" either party. Voters speak up, sometimes through a paid for by voters through a lobbying group like the NRA, sometimes individually.

The other party is not "bullied into complacency"

63% of the voting public opposes any further gun control/registration measures. Even in liberal bastions, candidates that attempt to coddle their liberal base with vague promises of do-nothing gun legislation are defeated. Because gun owners vote.

It isn't politicians accepting money to look the other way, It is politicians listening to the voting public.

BTW, the abortion issues are skewed against abortion, specifically Planned Parenthood funding, yet one party considers that the most sacred line item in the budget, and the other is bullied into doing nothing.

 

[BotanyBoy]

No one "owns" either party. Voters speak up, sometimes through a paid for by voters through a lobbying group like the NRA, sometimes individually.

Always.....

If you're not rich or you're not part of a group that pools it's money to send to DC then fuck you, back of the line.

 

[Que]

Always.....

If you're not rich or you're not part of a group that pools it's money to send to DC then fuck you, back of the line.

Well, they wont actually listen to your individual words, valid point. They do have staffers keep tick marks of how many letters/phone calls they get on which issue and which way. They ignore letter writing "campaigns" and form letters and emails.

The two places though, they do listen to the voters is poll data, and you best believe they poll the hot button issues before they do anything, and at the ballot box. If their buddy goes down on an issue they pay attention.

This is why in a country with an ever increasing, aging population (that vote) something sensible like raising the retirement age has been done what, once in my lifetime of 50 years?

That isn't the AARP "owning" politicians. That is politicians not wanting to be thrown out of office. Which, to an extent is a good thing. Personally, to me, it smacks too much of democracy, but in my entire lifetime our voting public has been conditioned to believe (incorrectly) that we live in a majority rules democracy.

They listen to the NRA, not just because of campaign money and money going into oppo ads, but because the NRA has a tremendous get out the fucking angry vote machine. Which is why it is silly that people pretend that it is a gun industry arm. It isn't. Gun Manf'rs all support because being able to show up as an NRA sponsor is good for business with the gun nuts, who are of course the people buying 10 million new guns a year at $600 a piece an on up.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Well, they wont actually listen to your individual words, valid point. They do have staffers keep tick marks of how many letters/phone calls they get on which issue and which way. They ignore letter writing "campaigns" and form letters and emails.

The two places though, they do listen to the voters is poll data, and you best believe they poll the hot button issues before they do anything, and at the ballot box. If their buddy goes down on an issue they pay attention.

This is why in a country with an ever increasing, aging population (that vote) something sensible like raising the retirement age has been done what, once in my lifetime of 50 years?

That isn't the AARP "owning" politicians. That is politicians not wanting to be thrown out of office.

There is some truth to that.....voters do have pull but it's the politicians job to sell big money's politics. That's their real job, sell big money's kool aid and protect big money from the people.

If you get your campaign financing and you can get elected, if you can't raise millions and millions? 99.99% chance you aren't getting elected to SHIT beyond a county/town council. It DOES occasionally happen...and it's such a freak incident it usually makes news headlines in whatever jurisdiction they were elected. And I can't remember a single one of the ones I've herd about lasted more than a season once the good ol' boys club had their way with the fish.

Just look at most of the office holders today.

Which, to an extent is a good thing. Personally, to me, it smacks too much of democracy, but in my entire lifetime our voting public has been conditioned to believe (incorrectly) that we live in a majority rules democracy.

How are we not a majority rules democracy? You get 2/3 vote you can pretty much do whatever it is you want.....even change rules that say you can't.

They listen to the NRA, not just because of campaign money and money going into oppo ads, but because the NRA has a tremendous get out the fucking angry vote machine. Which is why it is silly that people pretend that it is a gun industry arm. It isn't. Gun Manf'rs all support because being able to show up as an NRA sponsor is good for business with the gun nuts, who are of course the people buying 10 million new guns a year at $600 a piece an on up.

If anyone is the gun industry arm it's the DNC....no one sells guns like a democrat.

 

[doctor_insanus]

There is some truth to that.....voters do have pull but it's the politicians job to sell big money's politics. That's their real job, sell big money's kool aid and protect big money from the people.

If you get your campaign financing and you can get elected, if you can't raise millions and millions? 99.99% chance you aren't getting elected to SHIT beyond a county/town council. It DOES occasionally happen...and it's such a freak incident it usually makes news headlines in whatever jurisdiction they were elected. And I can't remember a single one of the ones I've herd about lasted more than a season once the good ol' boys club had their way with the fish.

Just look at most of the office holders today.



How are we not a majority rules democracy? You get 2/3 vote you can pretty much do whatever it is you want.....even change rules that say you can't.



If anyone is the gun industry arm it's the DNC....no one sells guns like a democrat.

It's not the DNC that plays on conservatives' fears every time a Democrat is elected. It's the same old propaganda wing of the NRA trotting out the talking points. I have a family full of NRA members, and I read the magazines they receive. Every headline is about Obama's gun-snatching agenda or some such nonsense.

Anybody who denies that the GOP is the legislative branch of the gun lobby is either hopelessly naive or a goddamn liar.

 

[Lancecastor]

in my entire lifetime our voting public has been conditioned to believe (incorrectly) that we live in a majority rules democracy.

Of course we live in a majority rules democracy.

However, it's increasingly easy for the majority to be un/ill-informed, which makes it easier for those in power to respond to a wider variety of (minority) influences.

Most "polls" for example are conducted by calling land lines.

Think about the changing demographics of the typical land line owner.

(or the typical demographic of the average Twit poll)

Television News is less unbiased than ever, with fewer people watching from increasingly compressed demographics.

Online news is fractured, constantly in flux and unregulated.

Much easier to influence or fix an election now...but the majority still rules.

They just need to be harnessed.

 

[richard_daily]

No one "owns" either party. Voters speak up, sometimes through a paid for by voters through a lobbying group like the NRA, sometimes individually.

The other party is not "bullied into complacency"

63% of the voting public opposes any further gun control/registration measures. Even in liberal bastions, candidates that attempt to coddle their liberal base with vague promises of do-nothing gun legislation are defeated. Because gun owners vote.

It isn't politicians accepting money to look the other way, It is politicians listening to the voting public.

BTW, the abortion issues are skewed against abortion, specifically Planned Parenthood funding, yet one party considers that the most sacred line item in the budget, and the other is bullied into doing nothing.

I think that anti-abortionists and anti-gunners share a lot in common. They are both driven by non-rational emotional arguments, and both attempt to use scare tactics to try and get their way.

 

[Aella_]

((Which reminds me of one of BB's recent threads.))

Not only them. Within certain groups who see themselves as being more open minded or, alternatively, more tolerant, you can see, on occasion, the same radical (no middle ground) type of thinking that you see with many R-wingers.

ie: Sam Harris (atheist)
Or some Lefties. They seem unwilling to try to understand where the right's perspective is coming from. And both R/Lefties bring valuable things to the table.

 

[toubab]

People need to accept imperfection as a fact of life. If we have the right to bear arms there will be those who abuse that right. There's no way to change that. If we allow everyone to vote, half the voters will be below the median in intelligence. There's no way to change that. It is what it is. Deal with it.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

No one "owns" either party. Voters speak up, sometimes through a paid for by voters through a lobbying group like the NRA, sometimes individually.

The other party is not "bullied into complacency"

63% of the voting public opposes any further gun control/registration measures. Even in liberal bastions, candidates that attempt to coddle their liberal base with vague promises of do-nothing gun legislation are defeated. Because gun owners vote.

It isn't politicians accepting money to look the other way, It is politicians listening to the voting public.

BTW, the abortion issues are skewed against abortion, specifically Planned Parenthood funding, yet one party considers that the most sacred line item in the budget, and the other is bullied into doing nothing.

On the whole you cant be more wrong. Every pol conspires to fuck the popular will, mostly to enrich themselves and their owners. Pols would gas and cremate every American if the money was right.

 

[Disgustipated]

People need to accept imperfection as a fact of life. If we have the right to bear arms there will be those who abuse that right. There's no way to change that. If we allow everyone to vote, half the voters will be below the median in intelligence. There's no way to change that. It is what it is. Deal with it.

We should arm them so they have a fair chance.

 

[richard_daily]

We should arm them so they have a fair chance.

Two Bob's already armed.

 

[toubab]

Two Bob's already armed.

Just one of those things people have to deal with, richard.

 

[BotanyBoy]

It's not the DNC that plays on conservatives' fears every time a Democrat is elected. It's the same old propaganda wing of the NRA trotting out the talking points. I have a family full of NRA members, and I read the magazines they receive. Every headline is about Obama's gun-snatching agenda or some such nonsense.

Anybody who denies that the GOP is the legislative branch of the gun lobby is either hopelessly naive or a goddamn liar.

I'm not saying the DNC does, and I've seen the gun rags too and it's laughable on a whole variety of levels.

Still doesn't change the fact that the worst thing that could happen to the gun industry is putting a Republican in office.

When Obama was elected it caused a THREE YEAR!! ammo/gun shortage/back order in the USA......that never happens when (R) takes office. Never.

Want to see an even bigger gun sale and largest cash injection the NRA has ever seen? Like the biggest one of all fucking time?? Even bigger than O's?

Put Hillary Clinton in office.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lpQvoHDEkrs/hqdefault.jpg

 

[richard_daily]

Just one of those things people have to deal with, richard.

Your lack of intelligence, and the fact that you vote?

Yes, we have to deal with it.

 

[richard_daily]

I'm not saying the DNC does, and I've seen the gun rags too and it's laughable on a whole variety of levels.

Still doesn't change the fact that the worst thing that could happen to the gun industry is putting a Republican in office.

When Obama was elected it caused a THREE YEAR!! ammo/gun shortage/back order in the USA......that never happens when (R) takes office. Never.

Want to see an even bigger gun sale and largest cash injection the NRA has ever seen? Like the biggest one of all fucking time?? Even bigger than O's?

Put Hillary Clinton in office.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lpQvoHDEkrs/hqdefault.jpg

Bernie Sanders is my guy this time around, since he's not a moron on guns, and he's not a moron on most other policies.

Plus he's gay, and that pisses off the wingnuts to no end, so it's a win/win if Bernie wins.

 

[toubab]

Your lack of intelligence, and the fact that you vote?

Yes, we have to deal with it.

Aggravating, isn't it?

 

[richard_daily]

Aggravating, isn't it?

Like a flea.

 

[Lancecastor]

ROSEBURG, Ore. (AP) — The gunman who killed nine people at an Oregon community college before taking his own life ranted in writings he left behind about not having a girlfriend

Finally we have an explanation.

DSB

 

[Oh_That_Guy]

Bernie Sanders is my guy this time around, since he's not a moron on guns, and he's not a moron on most other policies.

Plus he's gay, and that pisses off the wingnuts to no end, so it's a win/win if Bernie wins.

Bernie Sanders isn't gay. I guess he could be but it would come as a huge surprise to his wife and kids.

 

[Oh_That_Guy]

Finally we have an explanation.

DSB

People have murdered for much less. It always surprises me what a person will do over sex.
"I can't have a girlfriend so I'm going to kill everyone."
"My wife left me so I'm going to kill everyone."
"That hooker laughed so I killed her."