Ways to keep mind-reading from making it difficult to write?

[HHHawkeye]

So I'm considering giving my male POV lead mind-reading powers (in addition to a few others he has) because it's a narratively useful tool for conveying the female POV (which I find hot) and allowing the narration of events the male lead couldn't possibly have witnessed.

I think I have a fun idea to limit this to keep it from completely breaking the story in half: the mind-reading is easy to resist, but gets harder the more turned on you are and the more comfortable you are with the idea of those thoughts being read. This also could result in the amusing situation that he runs into a woman so aroused by the idea of her privacy being so completely violated that his brain gets bombarded with social media passwords and bank PINs and every embarrassing thing in her past that he could conceivably blackmail her with.

But has anyone tried to maintain drama and stakes in a story while having a major character have mind-reading powers without major drawbacks? I'm suddenly curious if it's possible, and what the trick of it might be.

 

[TheLobster]

But has anyone tried to maintain drama and stakes in a story while having a major character have mind-reading powers without major drawbacks?

The obvious source of drama could be the consequences of the mind-reading character revealing something he is not supposed to know, such as potentially ruining the lives of people he cares for. The dissonance between what the other characters think and what they say another. And if course there are they moral dilemmas inherent in violating other people's privacy.

That said, are you sure you don't want to just write your story in third person?

 

[HHHawkeye]

That said, are you sure you don't want to just write your story in third person?

That has occurred to me, of course, but it doesn't quite feel right. I find the writing more compelling from a first person perspective, and doing it from the POV of any of the other characters wouldn't give the reader enough of a window into what's going on.

 

[Writer61]

So I'm considering giving my male POV lead mind-reading powers (in addition to a few others he has) because it's a narratively useful tool for conveying the female POV (which I find hot) and allowing the narration of events the male lead couldn't possibly have witnessed.

I think the biggest problem would be making it clear when it's his thoughts and when they are hers.

 

[TheLobster]

If the dilemma is between using a broader and more versatile point of view, and literally giving a character supernatural powers he wouldn't have otherwise, then, uh — I don't think it's a dilemma at all...

 

[HHHawkeye]

If the dilemma is between using a broader and more versatile point of view, and literally giving a character supernatural powers he wouldn't have otherwise, then, uh — I don't think it's a dilemma at all...

Oh no, supernatural powers are already well on the table to be clear. The main character has several of them already, and they're central to the plot.

 

[EmilyMiller]

But has anyone tried to maintain drama and stakes in a story while having a major character have mind-reading powers without major drawbacks? I'm suddenly curious if it's possible, and what the trick of it might be.

Yes - the second part of my Coleoidphilia Trilogy has the FMC and MMC trying to negotiate boundaries, privacy, and consent in a relationship where the FMC was human and the MMC a telepathic, telekinetic, space octopus. Tentacle porn infused with real human drama. And obviously metaphorical.

 

[TheLobster]

Oh no, supernatural powers are already well on the table to be clear. The main character has several of them already, and they're central to the plot.

Gotcha. In this case, I believe it's worth paging @old_prof for advice, as he has written an entire novel with a mindreading main character.

 

[BeechLeaf]

have mind-reading powers without major drawbacks?

Wouldn't this be like infinite money, the ability to fly, or snapping your fingers makes someone want to have sex with you? A superpower without drawbacks would be hard to use in a readable story.

For mind-reading I would perhaps take the bombardment route: if you can freely access the thoughts of those around you, it's like being surrounded by radios tuned to hip-hop, country & western, football commentary, and soap opera all at once. You walk down the street and hear someone arranging to meet their mistress, someone so sad they've resolved to commit suicide, someone thinking the cops are closing in on me, someone never gonna forgive Jamie, every which way, all around you, all the time.

Or the focus route. You get vague hints of thoughts and you can home in, read one person better, but when you realize how sad they are, it's in you too, the same thought, the bridge over the railway, if you time it right it'll be all over in an instant, he'll be sorry then, he'll wish he'd never said that. And it's you thinking that.

And the mind-reader's whole life is that. Every hour, every day, that's what they have to endure or face or try to get away from.

 

[WaxPhilosophic]

I read somewhere recently concerning fantasy worlds with magic systems, that magic should come with a cost to the users. So what if in exchange for reading someone's thoughts, the mind reader loses one of his own memories. He must then weigh the importance of using his power against the side effect of forgetting what's important to him.

 

[deathlynx]

Yes - the second part of my Coleoidphilia Trilogy has the FMC and MMC trying to negotiate boundaries, privacy, and consent in a relationship where the FMC was human and the MMC a telepathic, telekinetic, space octopus. Tentacle porn infused with real human drama. And obviously metaphorical.

Ooh! Sounds like an Illithid!

I have written a story with a teep, but it wasn't the PoV character. And, to be frank, there wasn't much drama to it, mostly a bit of exploring what what it might be like to peek into my mind from the outside. And sex (since it's erotica).

I don't see a problem with 3rd person, especially if it's 3rd Intimate. While most of what I write is third person, I tend to only let the reader look into the head of one (PoV) character at a time.

Of course, this assumes that the MC in the OPs story is aware of what thoughts are his own as opposed to someone else's. I think the premise from the OP story has great potential, btw.

 

[deathlynx]

I read somewhere recently concerning fantasy worlds with magic systems, that magic should come with a cost to the users. So what if in exchange for reading someone's thoughts, the mind reader loses one of his own memories. He must then weigh the importance of using his power against the side effect of forgetting what's important to him,

Lol. That would probably be the On Genre: Fantasy thread. There was a definite debate over the issue.

In this case, the ability (or lack thereof) to turn it off is often considered the "cost" of the power. Charlaine Harris sporadically touches on this in the Sookie Stackhouse series (the source of True Blood). Think about all of the random thoughts that would bombard you, especially when you consider how many are Id vs. Super Ego.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Ooh! Sounds like an Illithid!

I have written a story with a teep, but it wasn't the PoV character. And, to be frank, there wasn't much drama to it, mostly a bit of exploring what what it might be like to peek into my mind from the outside. And sex (since it's erotica).

I don't see a problem with 3rd person, especially if it's 3rd Intimate. While most of what I write is third person, I tend to only let the reader look into the head of one (PoV) character at a time.

Of course, this assumes that the MC in the OPs story is aware of what thoughts are his own as opposed to someone else's. I think the premise from the OP story has great potential, btw.

I kissed his skin softly and lay my head on his.

"It's OK, Emily. Let's talk about us. Would you be offended if I spoke about what I think? I know it can seem intrusive."

"In these circumstances, I think it's OK. Tell me, what's been on my mind?"

A brief pattern of color appeared, danced and disappeared. He tended to like my little jokes. I sat down on the edge of my bunk.

"So, Emily. I guess—OK I know—you feel we have fallen into a bit of a rut. Maybe having all your needs met gets a bit stifling. I think I get that. But I think—sorry know—that there are a couple of underlying things. Is it OK if I go on?"

It struck me that telepathic octopuses would make a killing as therapists. A recurrence of the brief pattern showed he found the thought amusing too.

"Well, first, what just happened. I think you are finding your every thought being transparently visible to me rather wearing. Invasive. Maybe even non-consensual. I like pleasing you, but I have never and would never manipulate you. But I get it. There are a couple of things we could consider, but I'll come back to that."

He was right of course and it was also annoying.

"I know, Emily. It feels unequal. That's the word. I'll come back to it."

Well I guess recognizing a problem is a start.

 

[ChuckWolf]

You could try something like:

Melanie squirmed under Matt's intense gaze. Jesus Christ, why is he staring at me like that? This Matt guy is really creeping me out even more than that frat guy at that sorority mixer.

"So, is this your first time speed-dating?" Matt asked. Ok, I gotta know, what did that frat guy do that creeped her out so much?

 

[CalBishForNow]

Wouldn't this be like infinite money, the ability to fly, or snapping your fingers makes someone want to have sex with you? A superpower without drawbacks would be hard to use in a readable story.

People say that, but Superman has always been a popular character, and that's not just because of wish fulfillment fantasies or the drawback of a kryptonite weakness. Good stories about Superman revolve around thoughtful application of powers besides the immediately obvious ones, or conflicts between the right thing to do and the legal thing to do (when Lex Luthor is a legitimate businessman, for example), or how alienating it is to have all that power and still have something like a normal life.

Possible disadvantages of telepathy:

1. Any random arbitrary thing you make up, like physical pain or a time limit on using it, or only reading "surface thoughts" but having no more insight than anyone else into memories or the subconscious, or being able to read minds freely but not influence them at all
2. Overstimulation, which people have basically already talked about and given examples of with different minor variations
3. Identity crises and maintaining conscious control of it all, likewise
4. Self-control, both resisting the temptation to manipulate other people for ethical or practical reasons, and the lack of ability to consciously control their own mind like they can others
5. Alienation from people and increased difficulty of relating to them in normal ways. Why engage in conversation to get to know someone when you can just browse their memories or whatever? What would you find interesting and compelling about someone if you can just look in their heads and see how they differ from their neighbor? Who cares about love or hate or fear when you can create it as easily as molding clay?

In my opinion, the less your telepath has of the first four problems, the more they have to have of the fifth. Any telepath without serious limits on it would have a very alien outlook on life. The "easy" approach would be to make them very aloof and detached, like Charles Xavier on a good day, driven solely by principles no one else ever notices any conflict over. (Or just a manipulative sociopath like Xavier on a bad day. That's in a lot of the comics too.) The more difficult but interesting approach would be to give them a sense of wonder at and interest in things that seem random to everyone else because they can notice things others can't without even trying. (They could still be creepy here and there.)

Maybe they're fascinated by computers, botany, gambling, or fiction because they're more unpredictable than actual people. Maybe they have no verbal filter and taboo about sex or bodily functions because they've seen it all. (I don't just mean sex, I mean also shitting and childbirth and gross diseases.) Maybe they prevent all the other problems only by rigorous self-control and they've basically given themselves OCD in other aspects of life as well, alphabetizing their sock drawer to avoid alphabetizing their neighbors.

 

[spiralholly]

Relevant quote from something I wrote, in which one telepath is introducing another to the talent:

"...as a regular visitor to other people's brains, I can assure you that I always find out much less about what I'm looking for and so much more than I want to know about the person. It's like looking through their rubbish, not their secret journals, nor even their photo albums. It will increase your understanding of human behavior, but ruins the charm and mystique. No one is as innocent as they appear. It takes a strong stomach and a disciplined mind to handle seeing the truth of how people function."

 

[old_prof]

@TheLobster mentioned me, so I figured I should check in. My novel Blunt Force Drama deals with MC coping with his new found mind reading abilities. It has obvious upsides; the tag line is "Courting is much easier with telepathy." But it's intrusive, both to the mind reader and the person whose mind is being read. The book's not great; it was my first attempt at a novel, but I think it covers the material well. And it is better now than when I originally posted it; it's one of the pieces from last year that I have gotten a revision posted here.

 

[Britva415]

I'm considering giving my male POV lead mind-reading powers (in addition to a few others he has) because it's a narratively useful tool for conveying the female POV (which I find hot) and allowing the narration of events the male lead couldn't possibly have witnessed.

Eugh.

Before you came up with this "he should also have mind-reading powers!" brainstorm, what was the story about?

You're only approaching this from the angle of "making this easier to write." You don't seem to be aware of reasons for "why does he have to know her POV?" For that matter, why do we (readers) have to know her POV?

What does that do for the story, which couldn't also be done if it were just left out or if the characters just talk to each other?* Why does the story require it?

Let's also appreciate the irony of looking for ways to keep mind-reading from being difficult to write, while the mind-reading is supposed to solve the problem of making a constrained 1ºp pov difficult to write. You're just kicking the can down the road It seems very "old woman who swallowed a fly."

Anyway, if you hadn't told us that the mindreading idea is an add-on, and had presented the whole story as being about the mind-reading, I wouldn't be so skeptical. But it seems to me like you already have a story in mind and decided you need a mechanism to justify headhopping.

Sometimes stories get better by leaving stuff out. If it can't be left out, and you understand good reasons for that, then, sure, I guess "magic" is a way to shoehorn it in where a choice you have already made (sticking to 1ºp) would otherwise rule it out. But that's very deus-ex-machina. It's an unsatisfying late-save rather than an integral and necessary element of the story.

 

[Britva415]

* I do see your ideas for additional story content which could follow from his having the mindreading power. But that all seems like a side-quest - a whole separate, different story - from whatever the original story was supposed to be before you tacked on the bit where, just because you wanted to include another person's POV, now you have these additional ramifications about choosing to solve that problem with mind-reading.

 

[Britva415]

why do we (readers) have to know her POV?

What does that do for the story, which couldn't also be done if it were just left out or if the characters just talk to each other?* Why does the story require it?

I have a tendency to apply the same question to "why 1ºp" in the first place. I mean that question in the sense of "why does the story require it." By story I mean plot. Why could the story not be told, not work, not happen, if 3ºp narrative voice were chosen?

The answer can't be "because it's less immediate / intimate / immersive." That's false, 3ºp can achieve all of that. When I hear that, I hear, "But I can't say Sylvester, George!"

Often people choose to write in 1ºp because they just find it easier or more natural. And that's valid. I have no criticism about choosing it for those reasons. But when that choice winds up imposing constraints upon the story they want to tell, I'd rather see them work with that, maybe even make it part of the story, than see the kind of "get-out-of-1ºp-free" shenanigans which seem empty and contrived.

Writing 3ºp is always an option. It's often a better option. Maybe writing 3ºp better isn't an option, depending on the author's talent or fucks-given, but, my own opinion is still that writing less-than-perfect 3ºp is better than writing really problematic 1ºp.