We're All Insane!!!

[Katyusha]

I knew that...

 

[sadangel]

What's your excuse?

I You. sss

 

[Guest]

I You. sss

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I think a good part of it has to do with the fact that 'Physician took own life', doesn't have the romantic appeal that 'Misunderstood artist meets death at own hands' does. Writers and other artist spend their lives glamorizing things like death. And we make no bones about it.

Just my theory. To an artist, death is just another adventure (okay maybe that's Peter Pan but same premise). To anyone else it's the end of the road. Then again maybe some of us are delusional. Since artist are right up there with writers just think of how Van Gogh looked after he cut off his ear. I think he really believed it would grow back!

Damn cruel real world.

Better yet, how many real artists do you know who killed themselves, besides Van Gogh? I cant name one, off the top of my head.

 

[Bianca_Sommerland]

Better yet, how many real artists do you know who killed themselves, besides Van Gogh? I cant name one, off the top of my head.

Let's see. There was Rembrandt...but off the top of my head, never researched suicide.

Here's a list of artist though, and some examples of how they did it.
http://arthistory.about.com/library/artists/lists/bl_suicide.htm

There's quite a few lists of famous authors too. Don't feel like looking it up. Must find something inspiring and suicide ain't it

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Let's see. There was Rembrandt...but off the top of my head, never researched suicide.

Here's a list of artist though, and some examples of how they did it.
http://arthistory.about.com/library/artists/lists/bl_suicide.htm

There's quite a few lists of famous authors too. Don't feel like looking it up. Must find something inspiring and suicide ain't it

Wrong Rembrandt!

I dont recognize any names on the list except for Van Gogh. Hemingway comes to mind.

 

[Bianca_Sommerland]

Wrong Rembrandt!

I dont recognize any names on the list except for Van Gogh. Hemingway comes to mind.

Ya I know. I was double checking that actually. I was looking for artist. Writers are a bit easier. Hemmingway I know, Virginia Wolfe. I thought I heard something about Poe but it's probably wrong. I also heard that he was a serial killer so

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Ya I know. I was double checking that actually. I was looking for artist. Writers are a bit easier. Hemmingway I know, Virginia Wolfe. I thought I heard something about Poe but it's probably wrong. I also heard that he was a serial killer so

I think bars attract suicides more than art does.

 

[Bianca_Sommerland]

I think bars attract suicides more than art does.

Really? With all those happy drunks?

I don't know. I think no matter what field you're in, honestly, it's just a feeling of helplessness that brings people to that point. More often then not it's very selfish. One of my childhood friends found her father after he'd hung himself in their shed.

Guess the plus as an artist is that you're usually more famous after you're dead. Ofcourse it doesn't matter to you, you're dead, but that's a price you have to be will to pay

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Really? With all those happy drunks?

I don't know. I think no matter what field you're in, honestly, it's just a feeling of helplessness that brings people to that point. More often then not it's very selfish. One of my childhood friends found her father after he'd hung himself in their shed.

Guess the plus as an artist is that you're usually more famous after you're dead. Ofcourse it doesn't matter to you, you're dead, but that's a price you have to be will to pay

When I worked at the psychiatric hospital one of my duties was talking people out of suicide via the phone. The first time you get a suicide call the flavor of helping folks suddenly turns from ambrosia to shit....regular flavor shit, not the apple-cinnamon or blueberry. And nearly always the suicide is drunk and hostile and holding a pistol, or he's already emptied a bottle of meds and lives 1000 miles away.

Its a deadly game for these folks. Theyre playing STUMP THE CHUMP and your staff is hanging out waiting for you to flub or pull a rabbit from your underpants. Its too much stress for most human service professionals. If you dont drop the ball you quickly learn the nuances of human behavior; you become quick or dead.

 

[amicus]

Way back when, James, et al, on a morning drive-time radio show, near the end of my shift, I took a 'suicide call', something not heard of in that time frame.

A long time ago so the details are vague, but the General Manager of the radio station informed the Police and kept me on the air way past my regular time, talking with the person and keeping them on the phone until the Police traced the call and rendered assistance. Back then, that was a time consuming effort and little information was released about the individual, but, they stopped or interruptuped the attempt.

In the weeks following, I interview a couple dozen, 'experts' in the field and learned a lot about the why's and whereforee's concerning suicide...and yes...one does not want to dwell on such a subject.

ami

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Way back when, James, et al, on a morning drive-time radio show, near the end of my shift, I took a 'suicide call', something not heard of in that time frame.

A long time ago so the details are vague, but the General Manager of the radio station informed the Police and kept me on the air way past my regular time, talking with the person and keeping them on the phone until the Police traced the call and rendered assistance. Back then, that was a time consuming effort and little information was released about the individual, but, they stopped or interruptuped the attempt.

In the weeks following, I interview a couple dozen, 'experts' in the field and learned a lot about the why's and whereforee's concerning suicide...and yes...one does not want to dwell on such a subject.

ami

Psychiatric service isnt all CareBear-Strawberry Shortcake holding hands and singing April Love. People call up with a belly full of pills and challenge you to find them. And suddenly youre a gladiator at the Coloseum with an audience and a tiger by the tail. Sing it Buck!

I've Got A Tiger By The Tail, it's plain to see;
I won't be much when you get thru' with me.
Well, I'm a losing weight and a turnin' mighty pale.
Looks like I've Got A Tiger By The Tail.

 

[lance gt]

It was interesting to see the people I served when I was a bartender. The conversations people would have with me and discuss things they wouldn't tell another soul. I had to walk a fine line between more drinks or cutting them off all the time. I had many financiers and Bay St. types come in and tell me how bad the market was and now their only thoughts were a high dive from the roof of their building or fast trip down the wrong side of the road. I had to sit and listen and try to talk some sense into them as best I could and hope it was enough to dissuade them from acting on the impulse. It was always a good sight to see when they would come in again and know I had succeeded. Sorry to say, some didn't and it was more than disheartening to know I might have been the last person they talked to and I couldn't help. I gave up bartending because of that. All the studying and training I did, plus the $100-$200 a night in tips, wasn't worth the mental anguish of it.

 

[amicus]

A side of a person perhaps not often displayed.

Poignant post...

ami

 

[Loring2]

Amen Mr. Bartender

My Ex-Wife a Psychiatrist with a very large West Coast Hospital would tell you the same thing as LanceG and she would answer the question, "Are we all crazy? with a resounding Yes! ... with some qualifiers. She's also a tad cynical about it since her theory is that if you can manage to combine 'manic depression' with a dollop of "obsessive/compulsiveness" you can win your own padded sell and a daily dose of drugs, administered under the guise of tender loving care.

 

[rgraham666]

Lance? I would have told them, "It's only money."

 

[amicus]

"..."It's only money."..."

~~~

"Your money or your life..."

For all those who hate a 'for profit' system, the free market, and the fundamental premise upon which both rest, the sanctity of the individual, you make a fatal error by even thinking, "it is only money"

Money is an abstract symbol for wealth. Wealth has been measured since the first man found a peach orchard and bartered the fruit for a stone axe.

Wealth is a measurement of an individual human's ability to acquire the means of survival, food, shelter, clothing...even a mate. African tribes still living in primordial times, often trade a dozen cows for a desireable mate, and in competition with all the other young bachelors seeking her.

Wealth can be accumulated to succor a nuclear family, even passed on, in the form of land and tools, to the children and grandchildren.

Those who say, and mean it, "It's only money", are really saying, "It's only Life", why worry?

Only if your life has no value would you ever consider saying either.

Your money or your life? They are one and the same.

Amicus

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Better yet, how many real artists do you know who killed themselves, besides Van Gogh? I cant name one, off the top of my head.

Hemingway blew his brains out with a shotgun. Kerouac, Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Nathaniel West, and a lot of other authors died essentially of alcohol poisoning. Hunter S. Thompson also shotgunned his way to paradise. Jackson Pollack pretty much killed himself speeding while totally looped.

A few off the top of my head. I know I could find more if I looked.

The creative process is very often motivated by internal pain. One just can't get comfortable in society, and in the course of trying to figure out why, we tend to create and cast off art.

The same pain commonly leads to attempts to anesthetize it with drugs, alcohol, sex, or, ultimately, the Big Sleep.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Hemingway blew his brains out with a shotgun. Kerouac, Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Nathaniel West, and a lot of other authors died essentially of alcohol poisoning. Hunter S. Thompson also shotgunned his way to paradise. Jackson Pollack pretty much killed himself speeding while totally looped.

A few off the top of my head. I know I could find more if I looked.

The creative process is very often motivated by internal pain. One just can't get comfortable in society, and in the course of trying to figure out why, we tend to create and cast off art.


The same pain commonly leads to attempts to anesthetize it with drugs, alcohol, sex, or, ultimately, the Big Sleep.

I mentioned Hemingway. But alcohol begs the question; everyone is in recovery for something, and it isnt a phenomenon limited to artistes. Most people who suicide are drinking.

Pussy didnt kill Al Capone, syphillus killed him.

 

[Bianca_Sommerland]

I mentioned Hemingway. But alcohol begs the question; everyone is in recovery for something, and it isnt a phenomenon limited to artistes. Most people who suicide are drinking.

Pussy didnt kill Al Capone, syphillus killed him.

Wonder what the statistics show about writers (or artist) and drug abuse. I'm sure someone's done a study on it. I've heard many writers mention it but naturally to assume they're right would be...well...stupid.

I'm gonna see what I can find.

*note to self. I could probably find evidence to prove the earth is flat too......hmmm...oh well *

 

[amicus]

Hemingway blew his brains out with a shotgun. Kerouac, Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Nathaniel West, and a lot of other authors died essentially of alcohol poisoning. Hunter S. Thompson also shotgunned his way to paradise. Jackson Pollack pretty much killed himself speeding while totally looped.

A few off the top of my head. I know I could find more if I looked.

The creative process is very often motivated by internal pain. One just can't get comfortable in society, and in the course of trying to figure out why, we tend to create and cast off art.

The same pain commonly leads to attempts to anesthetize it with drugs, alcohol, sex, or, ultimately, the Big Sleep.

~~~

With the Hemingwayesque Avatar and the personal aplomb to self proclaim inclusion, 'we', perhaps Mabeuse should seek therapy to assuage the glorification of self destruction as a justifiable act for an artiste.

One should speak to dispell the continuing myth of the 'starving, driven artist', whose soul is in dire pain and replace it with art that reflects joy in the human experience.

Even the term, 'creative process', implies a positive and not a negative aspect of existence, that of creating.

This attitude of suffering is a hold-over from Medieval Christianity when such concepts of Hell, Demons, Devils infected men with the 'darkside' of human life, that of death, disease and pestilence through religious fanatacism.

It has no place in modern, rational society.

Enough already of this worship of death; this glorification of the artist as tortured by the pain of the necessity to create.

The proper designation would be a mental disorder; an inability to cope with reality. Perhaps an asylum is in order.

Amicus

 

[Guest]

Wait -

You're rational?

You believe you're modern?

The proper designation would be a mental disorder; an inability to cope with reality. Perhaps an asylum is in order.

 

[amicus]

Kinda figured I would touch a nerve there, well, at least for those who can read and comprehend.

You have the right to retain your illusory dream about cold Paris flats and starving artists and the bimbo's that service their needs.

See if I care.

ami

 

[Bianca_Sommerland]

Kinda figured I would touch a nerve there, well, at least for those who can read and comprehend.

You have the right to retain your illusory dream about cold Paris flats and starving artists and the bimbo's that service their needs.

See if I care.

ami

Actually Ami, it's a fact that most artist that put their all into their craft are struggling. Is it romantisized? Yes. But that doesn't change things. A lot of writers are putting their hearts and souls into work that will never be appreciated, or will only be when they're dead. Like anything else in life it's too much for some to cope with.

You might not care, and that's your choice. I've read the real writer's struggles and can relate to their efforts. Their fallings, and their accomplishments, make them what they've become. Even in the tragities you can see the hope. It's something to strive for. Even if it makes some of us crazy.

 

[Palba_Noruda]

"Just suppose clouds had strings attached to them which hang down to earth. What would happen?"

Easy. People would climb the strings and pick their noses with frozen raindrops.