What are the rules for quoting from a work of fiction?

[AG31]

This is different from my recent question about copyright. I would like to quote parts of a novel (Amazon, not Lit) in order to discuss the style that's represented. How much of the novel can I quote? Do people routinely stretch the boundaries in situations like this?

 

[yowser]

Under US copyright law, there is a provision called 'fair use' that allows you to legally reproduce sections of copyrighted material. What you are talking about fits this mechanism, and I will let folks with more legal understanding than I weigh in, but there is nothing wrong with quoting sections of a work for the purposes of discussion. And, from what you've said, there is not going to be any attempt by you to gain any monetary advantage, or otherwise compromise the commercial prospects of the work in question. All this holds as long as you provide attribution to the work (author, title, section, etc.)

You can get a little better sense of this by referring to the copyright office's Fair Use FAQ.

 

[alohadave]

I would like to quote parts of a novel (Amazon, not Lit) in order to discuss the style that's represented.

That would fall under the critique/commentary section of fair use.

How much of the novel can I quote?

Only as much as needed to make your point. What you quote should be a jumping off point for your own analysis. Usually a couple of paragraphs at a time. But you can do it multiple times. The important part is that you are actually providing commentary on what you are quoting.

One thing you should note is that while there are guidelines for what is considered fair use (in the US), there are not strict rules for what is acceptable.

Fair use is a defense you use in court if you are sued for copyright infringement. If you are doing actual commentary and limit quoting to what you need to get your point across, you will probably be fine.

 

[ElectricBlue]

This is different from my recent question about copyright. I would like to quote parts of a novel (Amazon, not Lit) in order to discuss the style that's represented. How much of the novel can I quote? Do people routinely stretch the boundaries in situations like this?

Sounds like you want to deal with it as if you were writing an academic treatise. In which case, quote enough to establish your argument but no more, and give it full citation (that is, author, publisher, title, year, page). You need to be very clear whose text it is, and what you're using it for. A big chunk quoted verbatim though, that would be a no no.

If you wander off into your own stylistic content as part of a "critique", you run the risk of going borderline. In any event, if you publish here, stick it in Essays, and make it very clear in a note to Laurel, what you're doing.

 

[AG31]

If you wander off into your own stylistic content as part of a "critique"

I don't quite understand this. I want to quote the novel and compare it to a different way of saying the same thing. Is that wandering off into y own sylistic content?

 

[XerXesXu]

I don't quite understand this. I want to quote the novel and compare it to a different way of saying the same thing. Is that wandering off into y own sylistic content?

Assuming you mean, 'quote from the novel', how many lines do you intend to quote? A novel is usually over 100,000 words; as a percentage of the work, how many words do you intend to quote? Why do you want to compare it to the way you would rewrite it: to show how good it is, to show how bad it is, some other reason? It's difficult to identify what your problem is.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I don't quite understand this. I want to quote the novel and compare it to a different way of saying the same thing. Is that wandering off into y own sylistic content?

To use "fair use", it needs to be a critique in an academic sense, where the quoted text is the only element being discussed - or if it's a comparative study, in principle the variation should already exist. That is, compare author A to author B, with the treatise writer being independent from both.

If your intent is to introduce your own fictional variant, that's where it's going borderline, and might be outside the principle of fair use. But it's not an academic study, you're not planning to publish in some literary journal, so the only "editor" to worry about is Laurel (assuming you wish to publish here).

I think you've made it unnecessarily complicated for yourself with these threads. I reckon you should just get on with it, write whatever you want to write, and submit it to the site. Unless Laurel sees the whole thing and understands the context, I don't think she could give much guidance right now, coz it's not clear what you want to do.

 

[WittyUserName]

That would fall under the critique/commentary section of fair use.


Only as much as needed to make your point. What you quote should be a jumping off point for your own analysis. Usually a couple of paragraphs at a time. But you can do it multiple times. The important part is that you are actually providing commentary on what you are quoting.

One thing you should note is that while there are guidelines for what is considered fair use (in the US), there are not strict rules for what is acceptable.

Fair use is a defense you use in court if you are sued for copyright infringement. If you are doing actual commentary and limit quoting to what you need to get your point across, you will probably be fine.

This makes me think of another question. I recently wrote a scene where a female was caught dancing around while singing into a hairbrush. I quoted the words she was singing, which happened to be from a Taylor Swift song. Are there any issues there? It was just a couple of lines..

 

[alohadave]

This makes me think of another question. I recently wrote a scene where a female was caught dancing around while singing into a hairbrush. I quoted the words she was singing, which happened to be from a Taylor Swift song. Are there any issues there? It was just a couple of lines..

A couple lines will likely be fine.

 

[AG31]

To use "fair use", it needs to be a critique in an academic sense, where the quoted text is the only element being discussed - or if it's a comparative study, in principle the variation should already exist. That is, compare author A to author B, with the treatise writer being independent from both.

If your intent is to introduce your own fictional variant, that's where it's going borderline, and might be outside the principle of fair use. But it's not an academic study, you're not planning to publish in some literary journal, so the only "editor" to worry about is Laurel (assuming you wish to publish here).

I think you've made it unnecessarily complicated for yourself with these threads. I reckon you should just get on with it, write whatever you want to write, and submit it to the site. Unless Laurel sees the whole thing and understands the context, I don't think she could give much guidance right now, coz it's not clear what you want to do.

I think I'm good, since I'm not planning to "publish" it. Just post it here. I may or may not get to that point.

 

[jaF0]

To use "fair use", it needs to be a critique in an academic sense, where the quoted text is the only element being discussed - or if it's a comparative study, in principle the variation should already exist. That is, compare author A to author B, with the treatise writer being independent from both.

This is what too many people miss.

They think fair use applies to anything on the web used for any purpose. It's one of the arguments I get from people when I take images down from picture threads. 'It's on the web, so fair use, fair use, fair use!!!!!'

 

[XerXesXu]

Here's a recent example of quoting for the purpose of literary critique:

Click to watch on YouTube.

I don't think you need to worry unduly.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Fare use doesn't include song lyrics, which can be a minefield if your work gets seen by the wrong person.

 

[jaF0]

I've used lyrics in stories, but only in passing and as 'easter eggs' to see if anybody catches them.

There were about five mentions of various 'Alice' lyrics including Arlo Guthrie, Elton John and Chic Corea in one story that I don't think anybody caught.

 

[Erozetta]

This makes me think of another question. I recently wrote a scene where a female was caught dancing around while singing into a hairbrush. I quoted the words she was singing, which happened to be from a Taylor Swift song. Are there any issues there? It was just a .couple of lines..

Technically, yeah, there are issues with that.

I still do it from time to time, but remove such lines if I put the work up for sale. I just mention the title of the song, instead, if that particular song is pertinent to the story/plot.

 

[SimonDoom]

This is what the United States Copyright Office says on this issue:

Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports. There are no legal rules permitting the use of a specific number of words, a certain number of musical notes, or percentage of a work. Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on all the circumstances. See, Fair Use Index, and Circular 21, Reproductions of Copyrighted Works by Educators and Librarians.

Notice the citation to Circular 21, which you can find at the copyright office website.

Fair use is a fuzzy doctrine. It is contained in section 107 of the US Copyright Code, title 17 of the US Code. There are four factors. There's no one magic formula about how the four factors apply in a particular case.

As a practical matter, I'd suggest this: keep the number of quoted lines fairly limited, and make sure that your work qualifies as a "commentary" or "criticism." Then you'll be fine. You'll have nothing to worry about. If the work is published here, at Literotica, and you're not making money from it, then it's extremely unlikely that anybody is going to care and go after you.

 

[StillStunned]

I recall from my various studies that it was frowned on for more than about 10% of your work to be quoted. So 90% had to be original.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

IANYL, obviously, and I can only speak to American law.

Fair use, as described here, is being used correctly. It's also clear that the doctrine is fuzzy, but that's common in areas of the law that are heavily litigated, like copyright.

But let's be honest here, folks. Nobody is making any money from the stories they post here, other than Laurel. The chances of you getting hit with anything significant is fairly low, even the song lyrics thing. The amount of work (read cost) a litigant would have to go through to get your name, your address, and the like is significant and probably far in excess of anything they'd recover, especially given how many people here are not from the same country. Now, if you're actively selling stuff and making money, your chances of getting hit go up dramatically, especially on the music side.

So, generally speaking, don't worry too much about this, unless you plan on literally ripping off an entire book and selling it as your own. Then you're likely going to get screwed.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

It depends on how sticky the original author is. For example, apparently JK Rowling does not like sexy Harry Potter stories, so if you use her characters and post them here and her people find out about it, Laurel will probably get a stern email from her lawyers to take it down immediately, Laurel will have to comply or risk losing her site and that will be that.

 

[jaF0]

I've used lyrics in stories, but only in passing and as 'easter eggs' to see if anybody catches them.

There were about five mentions of various 'Alice' lyrics including Arlo Guthrie, Elton John and Chic Corea in one story that I don't think anybody caught.

And Jefferson Airplane.

How could I forget that one?

Remember what the doormouse said.

 

[barefootgirl69]

Then, there are Forum Rules:

• Do not upload any copyright protected images, text, audio, or video. If you did not create a photo or other work, you probably do not have the legal right to post it on the forum. Fair use laws allow some very limited posting of copyrighted material, such as short excerpts from articles (please limit to under four paragraphs) and screen captures from movies, under certain circumstances. Please do a Google search under “Fair Use” if you want to understand this issue better. Members repeatedly posting copyright materials without authorization of the copyright owner will be banned.