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Guest
Guest
...those numbers rolling in, WD. Don't forget to give me some credit in a few months. I used to get paid for this.
What coming recession?
- Thread starter WriterDom
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shadowsource
A Flash In The Pain
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that was the trollmaker
And this is me.
And this is me.
M
miles
Guest
muffin
Some people don't want to get rich. Some people just want to keep their jobs. Some people would like to get paid what they're worth.
Worth is determined by the market. Always has, and always will.
If you want to make more money without learning new skills, you have to find an employer who values them more than your current employer.
Some people don't want to get rich. Some people just want to keep their jobs. Some people would like to get paid what they're worth.
Worth is determined by the market. Always has, and always will.
If you want to make more money without learning new skills, you have to find an employer who values them more than your current employer.
Cheyenne
Ms. Smarty Pantsless
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Re: muffin
Miles, you're exactly right. But, we've had this discussion on the board many times. No one here seems to believe in supply/demand and the market setting prices for what people are worth. They'd rather wish to the toothfairy that someone will pay them what they want.
I'd also throw in that many times what you are paid/worth is your own doing to a great extent, based on choices you have made in your life. Sometimes it is due to bad luck/good luck, but the majority of the time, a great deal of the cause of where you are in life rests on your own shoulders. Choices you make include, for example, how much education you get, or how much technical training you get, whether you marry young or have lots of kids. Or if you never marry, never have children, and devote most of your waking hours to that company that pays you well. Choices matter.
The world doesn't "owe" you a thing. That's one of the best things my dad ever taught me.
miles said:
Miles, you're exactly right. But, we've had this discussion on the board many times. No one here seems to believe in supply/demand and the market setting prices for what people are worth. They'd rather wish to the toothfairy that someone will pay them what they want.
I'd also throw in that many times what you are paid/worth is your own doing to a great extent, based on choices you have made in your life. Sometimes it is due to bad luck/good luck, but the majority of the time, a great deal of the cause of where you are in life rests on your own shoulders. Choices you make include, for example, how much education you get, or how much technical training you get, whether you marry young or have lots of kids. Or if you never marry, never have children, and devote most of your waking hours to that company that pays you well. Choices matter.
The world doesn't "owe" you a thing. That's one of the best things my dad ever taught me.
Thumper
Literotica Guru
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How about all of us that actually perform the labor decide to stay home for a week or two...
The market setting prices...does this only apply to labor or do you include the CEO's and their "Golden Parachutes"?
Big business needs labor....and it needs labor to be relatively happy.
Hypothetically speaking, suppose everyone went out and did what you suggested. Let's say everyone went out and got a law degree and became corporate lawyers. Who would make the cars? Or refine the gas? Or bake the bread? Or transport the goods?
On a base level who is most important to society (worth more) the Presidents and CEO's or those who actually do the work? McDonalds may think the top guy is most important and pay him as such but if the burger flippers decide to stay home nothing gets done...no burgers sold=no sales=no profits.
On the flipside, if the CEO disappears for a few months I am quite sure the company will toddle right along just as usual.
Unfortunately big business will continue with the growing disparity in compensation until the workingperson wakes up and decides to rectify the situation. Most likely through a union or other job action. It has happened before and will happen again.
The market setting prices...does this only apply to labor or do you include the CEO's and their "Golden Parachutes"?
Big business needs labor....and it needs labor to be relatively happy.
Hypothetically speaking, suppose everyone went out and did what you suggested. Let's say everyone went out and got a law degree and became corporate lawyers. Who would make the cars? Or refine the gas? Or bake the bread? Or transport the goods?
On a base level who is most important to society (worth more) the Presidents and CEO's or those who actually do the work? McDonalds may think the top guy is most important and pay him as such but if the burger flippers decide to stay home nothing gets done...no burgers sold=no sales=no profits.
On the flipside, if the CEO disappears for a few months I am quite sure the company will toddle right along just as usual.
Unfortunately big business will continue with the growing disparity in compensation until the workingperson wakes up and decides to rectify the situation. Most likely through a union or other job action. It has happened before and will happen again.
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miles
Guest
How about all of us that actually perform the labor decide to stay home for a week or two...
I'm sure your family will appreciate your not feeding them for a couple of weeks.
Who are you talking to?
I'm sure your family will appreciate your not feeding them for a couple of weeks.
Who are you talking to?
shadowsource
A Flash In The Pain
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Excellent!
Thumper said:
Cheyenne
Ms. Smarty Pantsless
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Yes, even CEO's are subject to the supply/demand of the marketplace in setting their salaries/bonuses/golden parachutes.Thumper said:
A company with a strong CEO is better for everyone. I've worked with both horrible CEO's (who were eventually fired) and great CEO's. A really great CEO treats the company as if it were his/her own. He/she loses sleep at night worrying about the economy, the market for his product, his labor and raw material supply, taxes, whether the rain will fall and the sun will shine. He/she worries about EVERYTHING, many times while thousands of employees look to him/her for guidance and leadership. It is many times a thankless job. He/she gets the ultimate blame for everything that could ever go wrong. "The buck stops here" is a way of life for the CEO. I would never want to be one.
A great CEO is especially important when a company isn't doing well. Companies don't fix themselves. CEO's put together teams to fix them. THOSE are the CEO's who are generally worth their weight in gold in the marketplace. They have a proven track record of fixing broken companies and they are compensated accordingly.
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miles
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shadowsource
Congrats on finding a mentor. Perfect.
Congrats on finding a mentor. Perfect.
shadowsource
A Flash In The Pain
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Don't be so self-indulgent, Miles
You the man!miles said:
Thumper
Literotica Guru
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We would eat good
I know how to survive without money miles....
We have enough food here for a month or two...and I can make more.
How far will your car go without gas. Suppose the gas haulers took a week off. In three days the trucking industry would grind to a halt(truckstops get resupplied almost everyday and trucks refuel usually every other day). No airlines. No gas.
Think about that the next time you fill up. How far could you go if the usual place was out?
Industry needs the worker far more than they realize....yet.
miles said:
I know how to survive without money miles....
We have enough food here for a month or two...and I can make more.
How far will your car go without gas. Suppose the gas haulers took a week off. In three days the trucking industry would grind to a halt(truckstops get resupplied almost everyday and trucks refuel usually every other day). No airlines. No gas.
Think about that the next time you fill up. How far could you go if the usual place was out?
Industry needs the worker far more than they realize....yet.
shadowsource
A Flash In The Pain
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But Miles lives in Atlanta
They'd all live longer and have far more leisure time without cars.
They'd all live longer and have far more leisure time without cars.
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miles
Guest
Cheyenne
So what. How many CEO's can do what a plumber or electrician can? Exactly 1.3% can it's a fact look it up on the ILGWU web page and look for the union label.
The rich guys screw the workers. They don't pay taxes so we get stuck with them and social security. Conservatives are mean, greedy people who inherited the money their parents stole from us. The only way to get rich is to be born that way because they will do everything they can to keep the working man down so he has to go on strike for a month to get a ten cent raise. Oh yeah so if we don't go on strike who won't bake the bread and deliver the milk? You'll be sorry when that happens because the CEO's will fire all the workers and make $100 gazillion each inbonuses. The next year when all their employees are gone and the factories aren't producing their stock will rise and they will get $200 million in bonuses because they made so much money because all those fired workers couldn't buy the company's products because they weren't making any because there weren't any people to make them.
Understand?
So what. How many CEO's can do what a plumber or electrician can? Exactly 1.3% can it's a fact look it up on the ILGWU web page and look for the union label.
The rich guys screw the workers. They don't pay taxes so we get stuck with them and social security. Conservatives are mean, greedy people who inherited the money their parents stole from us. The only way to get rich is to be born that way because they will do everything they can to keep the working man down so he has to go on strike for a month to get a ten cent raise. Oh yeah so if we don't go on strike who won't bake the bread and deliver the milk? You'll be sorry when that happens because the CEO's will fire all the workers and make $100 gazillion each inbonuses. The next year when all their employees are gone and the factories aren't producing their stock will rise and they will get $200 million in bonuses because they made so much money because all those fired workers couldn't buy the company's products because they weren't making any because there weren't any people to make them.
Understand?
M
miles
Guest
I'm seeing plenty of gas in this thread. Low octane. Very low.
shadowsource
A Flash In The Pain
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You're choking yourself
miles said:
KillerMuffin
Seraphically Disinclined
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Re: Re: muffin
Don't ever tell me that. Ever. You wanna piss me the fuck off, you do that again. I know better than most people that the world doesn't owe me a thing. You wanna get personal about an intellectual debate, then by all means, but I don't lay down and cry like your little snake in the grass.
You've just insulted my character worse than anyone bar none has ever insulted me in the last five years. Up to and including the assholes who accuse me of malingering. I can't believe you would say such a horrible thing.
If I truly gave a fuck about labor at wallyhell, I would do something about it. This is nothing more than a debate about labor versus management. I chose the side of labor to debate because last time I got into this (with the Stud) I had to debate management side. Change is nice. So, Cheyenne, fuck you and your obnxiously insulting attitude. You know jackshit about me.
And because no one gives a rats ass, I have epilepsy. I cannot work in most of the places I am qualified to work in any longer because the ADA does not cover it. I could get a job that pays about 2-3 times as much, if I were willing to work a 9 to 5 job, which I am not. The governmental preferences that I have are outstanding. However, I want to go to college. I am there partly because there are no evening jobs I would be willing to work besides wallyhell, and because of my goals, it suits me. My personal situation has jackshit to do with this thread beyond examples I have made of wallyhell. I bitch continuously about wallyhell because I don't like customer service. Is that understood or do we need it beaten into us?
Cheyenne said:
Don't ever tell me that. Ever. You wanna piss me the fuck off, you do that again. I know better than most people that the world doesn't owe me a thing. You wanna get personal about an intellectual debate, then by all means, but I don't lay down and cry like your little snake in the grass.
You've just insulted my character worse than anyone bar none has ever insulted me in the last five years. Up to and including the assholes who accuse me of malingering. I can't believe you would say such a horrible thing.
If I truly gave a fuck about labor at wallyhell, I would do something about it. This is nothing more than a debate about labor versus management. I chose the side of labor to debate because last time I got into this (with the Stud) I had to debate management side. Change is nice. So, Cheyenne, fuck you and your obnxiously insulting attitude. You know jackshit about me.
And because no one gives a rats ass, I have epilepsy. I cannot work in most of the places I am qualified to work in any longer because the ADA does not cover it. I could get a job that pays about 2-3 times as much, if I were willing to work a 9 to 5 job, which I am not. The governmental preferences that I have are outstanding. However, I want to go to college. I am there partly because there are no evening jobs I would be willing to work besides wallyhell, and because of my goals, it suits me. My personal situation has jackshit to do with this thread beyond examples I have made of wallyhell. I bitch continuously about wallyhell because I don't like customer service. Is that understood or do we need it beaten into us?
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Guest
Guest
Thank you Counselor.
All work is important...
They want everyone to work but then they don't want to pay for it.
If everyone was a brain surgeon there would be no more clerks to take your money at the gas pump...or gas in the pump. The floors would be filthy and no operations could take place since there would be no materials with which to perform them.
Should the janitor make as much as the surgeon? No. Should he be able to feed his children and educate them and provide a home for them? If he is working, yes. And he shouldn't have to work two or three jobs to do it. Family is important. Parents that are absent for whatever reason are one of the problems in society.
Management might be surprised to find out that if the working class saw a ten percent annual increase in income that their sales would increase also and maybe a few less accounts receivable would be written off.
That would be the trickle up theory...a lot more logical than trickle down. Or call it a rising tide lifting all boats. The tide being the masses.
All work is important...
They want everyone to work but then they don't want to pay for it.
If everyone was a brain surgeon there would be no more clerks to take your money at the gas pump...or gas in the pump. The floors would be filthy and no operations could take place since there would be no materials with which to perform them.
Should the janitor make as much as the surgeon? No. Should he be able to feed his children and educate them and provide a home for them? If he is working, yes. And he shouldn't have to work two or three jobs to do it. Family is important. Parents that are absent for whatever reason are one of the problems in society.
Management might be surprised to find out that if the working class saw a ten percent annual increase in income that their sales would increase also and maybe a few less accounts receivable would be written off.
That would be the trickle up theory...a lot more logical than trickle down. Or call it a rising tide lifting all boats. The tide being the masses.
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Guest
Guest
Thank you Counselor.
That was me damnit!!!
That was me damnit!!!
G
Guest
Guest
Thank you Counselor.
That was me damnit!!!
That too...Thumper that is...
It said I was logged in...WTF
That was me damnit!!!
That too...Thumper that is...
It said I was logged in...WTF
Cheyenne
Ms. Smarty Pantsless
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Re: Re: Re: muffin
But, since you brought it up, let's talk about you. I didn't accuse you of expecting that the world owes you something. I don't know that that is your attitude, and I've never seen it in you before. You do for yourself as far as I know. Your "epilepsy" would be the kind of "bad luck" I referred to. Yes, I know, you'd prefer to be in a military career and you can't because of your health. I do read your posts and have for a long time. That you can't be in the military is a terrible personal tragedy, worse than bad luck, actually. Any "government preferences" you get I know nothing about, but you've earned them as far as I'm concerned.
I didn't know epilepsy isn't covered by the ADA. I can't imagine why it wouldn't be! I think it should be.
I knew you were in college, that means you've made a choice, just as I'm talking about. You made a choice to go to school. What could be wrong with that? All of us who have had to work to get through college have dealt with trying to juggle a job with getting classes scheduled. I consider it part of the education. Add being a mom and wife into that equation, as you have, and I can't imagine how much more difficult it is. I did it the easy way going to college right out of high school. But, that was a choice I made.
"I could get a job that pays about 2-3 times as much, if I were willing to work a 9 to 5 job, which I am not. " Again, your choice. Still doesn't disagree with what I said. I could have earned much more when I was in school had I worked a full time job, too.
If I insulted you, KM, I didn't mean to. I don't think you have the "the world owes me" attitude I was referring to in my general comments. Your choices so far haven't shown that you do.
KM, I've never had a problem with you before and I don't intend to have one now. I must have hit a nerve for you to take my general comments as being directed at you, and for that I apologize. I was addressing the general topic of the thread, not "you" and your life. I used the term "you" collectively and addressed nothing to you personally.KillerMuffin said:
But, since you brought it up, let's talk about you. I didn't accuse you of expecting that the world owes you something. I don't know that that is your attitude, and I've never seen it in you before. You do for yourself as far as I know. Your "epilepsy" would be the kind of "bad luck" I referred to. Yes, I know, you'd prefer to be in a military career and you can't because of your health. I do read your posts and have for a long time. That you can't be in the military is a terrible personal tragedy, worse than bad luck, actually. Any "government preferences" you get I know nothing about, but you've earned them as far as I'm concerned.
I didn't know epilepsy isn't covered by the ADA. I can't imagine why it wouldn't be! I think it should be.
I knew you were in college, that means you've made a choice, just as I'm talking about. You made a choice to go to school. What could be wrong with that? All of us who have had to work to get through college have dealt with trying to juggle a job with getting classes scheduled. I consider it part of the education. Add being a mom and wife into that equation, as you have, and I can't imagine how much more difficult it is. I did it the easy way going to college right out of high school. But, that was a choice I made.
"I could get a job that pays about 2-3 times as much, if I were willing to work a 9 to 5 job, which I am not. " Again, your choice. Still doesn't disagree with what I said. I could have earned much more when I was in school had I worked a full time job, too.
If I insulted you, KM, I didn't mean to. I don't think you have the "the world owes me" attitude I was referring to in my general comments. Your choices so far haven't shown that you do.
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Cheyenne
Ms. Smarty Pantsless
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Funny, you don't know how many times I've said the same thing about you. Really. I just haven't posted that thought to the bb. Before now, that is.Siren said:
I post my opinions and what I believe. I try not to be too sarcastic, although I don't always succeed in that attempt. I don't think I was sarcastic at all on this thread. Condescending? I guess that is "in the eye of the beholder."
If you don't agree with my opinion, that's fine. I don't agree with yours, either. So what else is new?
shadowsource
A Flash In The Pain
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That scorn and ignorance -
I once lost a friend who was a partner at Goldman Sachs. He was complaining that the subway token vendors were making something like $23K annually without even having a HS education, or perhaps only having that. And I asked him which work he would prefer to do AT THE SAME SALARY: Selling tokens to psychos at 3 am in a noisy, filthy, urine-stenched pit, or devising takeover deals over plush lunches? He was making about $300K annually at the time, plus lots more. But his job was easier (not simpler). It pissed him off mightily. We'd still be friends if he hadn't gone off so arrogantly, bitching about a crappy salary for a terrible job. How much money would you want, Cheyenne or Miles, to clean toilets all day?
I once lost a friend who was a partner at Goldman Sachs. He was complaining that the subway token vendors were making something like $23K annually without even having a HS education, or perhaps only having that. And I asked him which work he would prefer to do AT THE SAME SALARY: Selling tokens to psychos at 3 am in a noisy, filthy, urine-stenched pit, or devising takeover deals over plush lunches? He was making about $300K annually at the time, plus lots more. But his job was easier (not simpler). It pissed him off mightily. We'd still be friends if he hadn't gone off so arrogantly, bitching about a crappy salary for a terrible job. How much money would you want, Cheyenne or Miles, to clean toilets all day?
Samuari
Twice Blessed
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Re: That scorn and ignorance -
I'm confused here, but that hapens to us Okies, we get used to it. It seems to me that one of the things that determines the value of one sort of work over another is not how dificult it is, but how many folks are around that can do it well, and how many other folks want to have it done. There are lots of toilets to clean, but even more folks able to clean them so the compensation for doing it is not very high. Muff is the only person that I know that translate Korean into Engalish, but unfortunitly there are not many folks that need that service, so while the pay is ok for doing it, there are not many oppertunities to do it. Cheyenne is an accountant, she keeps track of who does what to whom for how much. Everybody needs her services, and there are not many folks who render them, so her compensation is high.
It seems pretty simple to me, but then I'm just an Okie, so what do I know?
shadowsource said:
I'm confused here, but that hapens to us Okies, we get used to it. It seems to me that one of the things that determines the value of one sort of work over another is not how dificult it is, but how many folks are around that can do it well, and how many other folks want to have it done. There are lots of toilets to clean, but even more folks able to clean them so the compensation for doing it is not very high. Muff is the only person that I know that translate Korean into Engalish, but unfortunitly there are not many folks that need that service, so while the pay is ok for doing it, there are not many oppertunities to do it. Cheyenne is an accountant, she keeps track of who does what to whom for how much. Everybody needs her services, and there are not many folks who render them, so her compensation is high.
It seems pretty simple to me, but then I'm just an Okie, so what do I know?
shadowsource
A Flash In The Pain
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here's a hint
My friend made his money helping crappy companies take over good ones. The record thus far shows that no one benefited much except the top execs and the financial players. Slick, yes, but not useful. But oh so rewarding.
And sure, Samuari - that's one of the problems with teacher salaries. People don't truly feel that it's a valuable service. Is it? Do we need good teachers? Guess not. The market's never wrong!
My friend made his money helping crappy companies take over good ones. The record thus far shows that no one benefited much except the top execs and the financial players. Slick, yes, but not useful. But oh so rewarding.
And sure, Samuari - that's one of the problems with teacher salaries. People don't truly feel that it's a valuable service. Is it? Do we need good teachers? Guess not. The market's never wrong!
