What replaces democracy?

[Que]

Build it and they will come. To be fair, it's also a beautifully crafted, open-ended thread...

An absence of false modesty is very becoming.

 

[PoppingTom]

No, legally we cannot vote to give the president unlimited power. It requires a constitutional amendment which requires concurrence of the states which no dictator is going to get.

You only need two thirds, less than we need.

And you need a party capable of stealing voters. Even if it's only 10 %, if it's enough to get the two thirds by coalition with a greater party, you've got your constitutional amendment. Voted by only 10%. That's how Hitler came to power.

I know that Americans don't like dictatorship and don't trust the government, two good reasons to prevent it. But it's not impossible.

 

[Que]

You only need two thirds, less than we need.

And you need a party capable of stealing voters. Even if it's only 10 %, if it's enough to get the two thirds by coalition with a greater party, you've got your constitutional amendment. Voted by only 10%. That's how Hitler came to power.

I know that Americans don't like dictatorship and don't trust the government, two good reasons to prevent it. But it's not impossible.

That gets an amendment proposed. It takes 38 states to individually ratify it. Finding 13 states to block any amendment is not difficult. No way is montana, wyoming, idaho, utah, north and south dakotas, oklahoma, arkansa, nebraska, louisiana, arkansas, alabama, arizona, and texas going to do anything, except perhaps a convention to disband.

We do not form coalition governments like some countries. It isn't law, but tradition. Third parties are lucky to get 1.5 to 3%. Not like say austrialia with 20 some viable parties.

 

[PoppingTom]

It's not a democracy if the majority of people either don't vote, or are dissuaded from voting by misinformation, or their votes don't count because the electoral college votes go entirely to one candidate and aren't allocated by percentage of the vote.

It's not the fault of the democracy that people choose to not vote.

And in a world with free media, it's not the fault of the goverment, that only misinformation is at hand and taken seriously by some people.

And the way how votes been counted isn't an immutable option. If rules go for everyone/every party, it's just fair.

I think you are the one confusing "democracy" with the notion that "everybody is the king". A true democracy means freedom of choices, yes, but not that one person or minority group of persons can dictate the law of the land.

Well, they can - if they're elected and run the state.

That's all democracy is about. You can vote before you've to obey. I don't care if this is "true" democracy or not. It's democracy. Period. A car doesn't have to be perfect to be called a car. It just need to drive.

George W. Bush did not get the most votes for President and yet he was the President of the United States for 8 years.

Well, I really thought he had been voted and defeated Gore and Kerry. Must have been socialist propaganda....

The majority of Americans support gay marriage and yet gay marriage is illegal in most states.

The majority of Americans support a woman's right to choose and yet abortion is illegal in most states.

The majority of Americans support legalized marijuana and yet marijuana is illegal in most states.

Well, there is a little, just a little and absolutley unpredictable option that it's not the majority of U.S. people who support that. But I can be wrong. Maybe now you've got that majorities, maybe a party take it into program?

That's the worst thing on democracy: dumb people can vote for dumb things, too.

But what is not debatable is the fact that we are NOT living in a true democracy.

Sounds very dictatorial.

 

[PoppingTom]

We do not form coalition governments like some countries. It isn't law, but tradition. Third parties are lucky to get 1.5 to 3%. Not like say austrialia with 20 some viable parties.

I know, that two-party system was in a lot of countries for a long time, f.e. UK, but it's been broken up more and more. In UK by the UKIP, in Austria by the FPÖ, in France by FN....most of the time right wing parties.

A lot of people expect the Tea Party to become an independent one, capable of catching 10%. If this happens, coalitions will happen, as there is no other way to take over the government.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Thruout history fascism replaces democracy. Democracy is always a mob of looters and lynchers. And sooner than later someone with balls starts hoisting all he can capture.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Que]

^^^
This is what she confuses with "democracy."

The pro-democracy NEA tends to not promote that understanding. To hear from most modern civics instructors, we fought a war with england to for the right to vote for our king, and the right to vote for the spoils of the king's treasury.

 

[mikey2much]

Do I understand you to say the people have the right to the treasury

The pro-democracy NEA tends to not promote that understanding. To hear from most modern civics instructors, we fought a war with england to for the right to vote for our king, and the right to vote for the spoils of the king's treasury.

I would have thought that you held the opinion of the NEA in low regard, Do you agree with their views?

 

[Que]

I would have thought that you held the opinion of the NEA in low regard, Do you agree with their views?

That the needs of their union members trump the needs of children in the classroom? No, not so much. That bad teachers should be protected from dismissal? That parents should not have veto power over each and every teacher in the classroom. Yeah, I differ from the NEA's views quite a bit.