What's the difference between a cliche and an idiom?

[Bramblethorn]

I thought that it was a trope, not a cliche

To me, "trope" is broader: it's a device that shows up often enough in stories to be noticeable as a recurring idea, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. "Cliché", on the other hand, carries a negative judgement.

For instance plenty of stories involve villains feeding people to animals but nobody would be likely to suggest that merely using that device is bad writing. It's been around long enough that it's just a thing that happens in stories.

OTOH, if I were to write a villain who has a remote-activated trapdoor that he uses to drop people into a tank full of piranhas, that would be a cliché. It was done famously in You Only Live Twice, and parodied repeatedly in things like Team America and Austin Powers; any writer who tries to use it straight these days is likely to be judged negatively for recycling somebody else's device.

 

[Britva415]

I asked the question

Oh.

It seemed more like "isn't it this and not that" had a presupposition that it had to be one or the other and not both.

a cliche is a actual sentence of expression that is so used that writers and readers see it negatively

We are talking about writing, so, when I first thought to point out that a cliché doesn't have to be "an expression," I anticipated that someone might push back with "yeah but we aren't talking about architecture or music or cinematography."

However, I think that writing has room for clichés which are still clichés even though they aren't "expressions," as in idioms, just like how a movie can employ a cliché in ways besides having characters say cliché idioms.

Like, a trope!

 

[filthytrancendence]

The only thing I can add to @BeechLeaf's explanation is that I think an idiom is always a single logical unit, if that makes sense. It is usually a phrase, but the phrase has its' own singular meaning. It's basically it's own word, just comprised of several words, and it's nearly always more evocative than a single word equivalent.

Cliche is just a lot broader concept. It's also contextually and culturally and temporally defined, even between English-speaking countries. What's cliche in the states might not be in the UK. What was cliche in 1990 probably isn't now.

An idiom is always an idiom. Anything can become cliche or cease to be cliche depending on where or when you are.

 

[JGittes]

An idiom is a specific phrase, but a cliché need not be. For instance, the enigmatic stranger who blows into a Western town, takes down its bad guys, and rides off into the sunset is a cliché regardless of what words the author uses to narrate it.

A cliched trope, except for "Silverado."

 

[AG31]

An idiom is always an idiom. Anything can become cliche or cease to be cliche depending on where or when you are.

Well stated. I'll remember this.

 

[liliput1]

An idiom is a figure of speech that's been adopted into general language, that everyone knows is a total cliché.

A cliché is a phrase that someone might still have thought was original - or more often, a plot or characteristic that is both unoriginal and described tediously.

Idiom: We’re not here to fuck spiders.

Cliche: You come here often?

 

[Britva415]

Idiom: We’re not here to fuck spiders.

Cliche: You come here often?

Idiom: *looks around, sees spider fuckers*

Cliche: "Yeah. Welcome to Silky's. Two drink minimum."

 

[liliput1]

Idiom: *looks around, sees spider fuckers*

Cliche: "Yeah. Welcome to Silky's. Two drink minimum."

I suppose the phrase does not imply willingness so much as intent. Maybe Steve is available Wednesday but for today we have other stuff to get done.