What's worse? Sex or Torture? This is funny and true

[Colleen Thomas]

I quite agree with your explanation. A large part of being an officer is the need to be morally upright. I'm not really objecting to the dismissal of the 4-star general within the context of the military.

Still, the punishment might be construed to be a tad harsh in this particular instance - not living with his wife, 3 months from retirement, no indication of coersion of a person of inferior rank. Perhaps a strong reprimand would have been enough, but I'm in no position to judge.

Logically, I don't see where he even did anything outside the bounds of the code of conduct of a gentleman. But I don't know what the exact code is and I don't think it's evenly applied. In this case, for all I know, he was opposed tot he war and the allegations and subsequent action were politically motivated.

On the other hand, in the strictest sense he was commiting adultry and I do know that is outside the bounds of gentlemanly conduct.

 

[Alfie Higgins]

On the other hand, in the strictest sense he was commiting adultry and I do know that is outside the bounds of gentlemanly conduct.

On the other hand, I've read enough of those "I screwed the General's Wife" stories on Literotica to question how many take that particular aspect of gentlemanly conduct seriously.

Just kidding.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

On the other hand, I've read enough of those "I screwed the General's Wife" stories on Literotica to question how many take that particular aspect of gentlemanly conduct seriously.

Just kidding.

I think maybe the point yuo make in jest here is the real point. Who is to say what defines gentlemanly conduct? o some of us, having sex with a woman while separated from your wife isn't. to his brother officers, it obviously was.

I come from a martial family, but none of my immediate kin were officers, my grandfather holding the rank of chief petty officer, but that isn't a commisioned officer, it's a warrant oficer and not subject to the code.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2074/peace8ra.png​

 

[Pure]

Adultery in the military, the offense, elements

Note the difference of the Dems and Republicans: The Dems *say* they're going to let some adulterers get off, and face flack. The Republicans simply start letting some adulterers get off, and keep quiet about it.



Adultery in the Military

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/adultery.htm

From Rod Powers,

Your Guide to U.S. Military.



I get email all the time (usually from wives) asking what constitutes the crime of "adultery" in today's military? Usually the wife is upset because she perceives that the military did nothing about a way-ward husband's wicked ways, or are angry because the military did not punish him for cheating on her.

So, is adultery still an offense under the military justice system? Yes .... and no. It actually depends upon the circumstances.

You may be surprised to learn that adultery is not listed as an offense in the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). The UCMJ is a federal law, enacted by Congress, to govern legal discipline and court martials for members of the armed forces. Articles 77 through 134 of the UCMJ encompassesthe "punitive offenses" (these are crimes one can be prosecuted for).


None of those articles specifically mentions adultery. Adultery in the military is actually prosecuted under Article 134, which is also known as the "General Article." Article 134 simply prohibits conduct which is of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, or conduct which is prejudicial to good order and discipline.

The UCMJ allows the President of the United States to administer the UCMJ by writing an Executive Order, known as the Manual for Court Martial (MCM). The MCM includes the UCMJ, and also supplements the UCMJ by establishing "Elements of Proof," (exactly what the government must *prove* to prosecute an offense), an explanation of offenses, and maximum permissible punishments for each offense (among other things). While the MCM is an Executive Order, enacted by the President, in reality much of the contents are a result of military and federal appeals court decisions.

One of the things that the MCM does is to expand article 134 into various "sub-articles." One of these "sub-articles" covers the offense of adultery (Article 134, paragraph 62).

Adultery, as a military offense, is difficult to prosecute (legally) for several reasons.

There are three "Elements of Proof" for the offense of Adultery in the Military:
(1) That the accused wrongfully had sexual intercourse with a certain person;


(2) That, at the time, the accused or the other person was married to someone else; and


(3) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

Element #2 is usually pretty easy for the government to prove. There is normally sufficient written evidence to prove whether or not someone is legally married. (Many folks will be surprised to learn that in the military, a single person can be charged with the crime of adultery).

Element #1 can be very hard to prove. Remember, a court martial (like civilian court) requires *proof* beyond a reasonable doubt. Proof of sexual intercourse normally requires photographs, a confession of one of the parties involved, an eye-witness, or other legally admissible proof. (The mere fact that someone stayed over at another individuals house, or even slept with them in the same bed is not proof of sexual intercourse.

Element #3, in many cases, can be the most difficult item to prove. The government must show that the individual's conduct had some direct negative impact on the military. This normally would include cases of fraternization (officer & enlisted) or a relationship with another military member, or a military spouse.

Some of you may remember the famous Lt. Kelly Flynn case of a few years back. Lt. Kelly Flynn was the Air Force's first female B-52 pilot. Unfortunately, Lt Flynn was an unmarried officer who was having an affair with a married civilian. Lt Flynn was advised by a First Sergeant, and later ordered by her Commander, to terminate the affair. She broke up with her "boyfriend," but later they got back together, and -- when asked about it -- Lt Flynn lied. Lt. Flynn was then charged with the offenses of adultery, giving a false official statement, conduct unbecoming an officer, and disobeying an order of a superior commissioned officer.

So, where was the "military connection" for the adultery charge? Well, the civilian "boyfriend," was the husband of an active duty enlisted Air Force member, stationed at the same base as Lt Flynn. Therefore, Lt Flynn's "affair" had a direct negative impact on the morale of that military service member (the enlisted wife is the one who originally complained about the inappropriate actions of Lt. Flynn).

Lt Flynn didn't face a military court, however; she was allowed to resign her commission in lieu of court martial (lots of media attention probably had something to do with this decision by the Air Force). (page 2)

In 1998, the Clinton Administration authored a change to the Manual for Courts-Martial, which provided that cases of adultery be handled at the lowest appropriate level, and provided specific guidance for commanders to use in order to determine whether or not the member's conduct was "prejudicial to good order and discipline," or "of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces." While the President does have the authority to issue changes to the MCM, this proposal resulted in screams and yells from Congress, and was subsequently dropped.

However, in a very quiet move, in 2002, President Bush adopted many of the changes that were proposed by President Clinton. In addition to the Elements of Proof," the "Explaination" section under this offense now requires commanders to consider the following factors when determining whether or not the offense of "adultery" constitutes a crime:

The accused's marital status, military rank, grade, or position;
The co-actor's marital status, military rank, grade, and position, or relationship to the armed forces;
The military status of the accused's spouse or the spouse of co-actor, or their relationship to the armed forces;
The impact, if any, of the adulterous relationship on the ability of the accused, the co-actor, or the spouse of either to perform their duties in support of the armed forces;
The misuse, if any, of government time and resources to facilitate the commission of the conduct;

Whether the conduct persisted despite counseling or orders to desist; the flagrancy of the conduct, such as whether any notoriety ensued; and whether the adulterous act was accompanied by other violations of the UCMJ;
The negative impact of the conduct on the units or organizations of the accused, the co-actor or the spouse of either of them, such as a detrimental effect on unit or organization morale, teamwork, and efficiency;
Whether the accused or co-actor was legally separated; and
Whether the adulterous misconduct involves an ongoing or recent relationship or is remote in time.

What this means is that many incidents of "adultery" may not be considered a punishable "crime" in the military, unless there is some kind of direct negative impact on the military itself. This does not mean, however, that military members are free to shack up with whomever they please. Commanders have a lot of discretion when it comes to administrative procedures, and administrative actions (such as reprimands, denial of promotions, performance report remarks, etc.) are not governed by the relatively strict legal requirements of the UCMJ or MCM.


Rod Powers is a retired Air Force First Sergeant, and military author. His informative articles about joining the military have appeared in numerous military and civilian publications.

 

[Pure]

Some of the alleged and/or plain facts

4-Star General Relieved Of Duty
Rare Move Follows Allegations of an Extramarital Affair

By Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 10, 2005; Page A01

In a rare move, the Army relieved a four-star general of his command amid allegations that he had an extramarital affair with a civilian, Army officials said yesterday.

Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes, 55, led the Army's Training and Doctrine Command at Fort Monroe, Va., where he supervised the recruitment and academic programs at 33 Army schools, from basic training to the war colleges. Byrnes, who several military sources said had a previously unblemished record, was set to retire in November after 36 years of service.



The Army released few details about the decision to relieve one of its 11 four-star generals, with spokesmen saying only that Gen. Peter J. Schoomaker, the Army's chief of staff, relieved Byrnes of his command on Monday as the result of an investigation by the Defense Department's inspector general. A spokesman said Army officials could find no case of another four-star general being relieved of duty in modern times.

Several defense sources familiar with the case, speaking anonymously because the investigation is not complete, said Byrnes is accused of having an "inappropriate relationship," and some described him as being involved in an extramarital affair.

Byrnes, reached by telephone at his home yesterday, declined to comment. His defense attorney, Lt. Col. David H. Robertson, said the allegation against Byrnes involves an affair with a private citizen. Byrnes has been separated from his wife since May 2004; their divorce was finalized on Monday, coincidentally the same day he was relieved of command, Robertson said.

"The allegation against him does not involve a relationship with anyone within the military or even the federal government," Robertson said, emphasizing that the allegations do not involve more than one relationship. "It does not involve anyone on active duty or a civilian in the Department of Defense."

Having an extramarital affair can be deemed adultery and a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. But such cases rarely go to court-martial and usually end in administrative punishment such as a letter of reprimand, according to military lawyers. Relieving a general of his command amid such allegations is extremely unusual, especially given that he was about to retire.

The Army has been hurt over the past year by detainee-abuse cases and has been accused of not going after top officers allegedly involved in such abuse. Army officials said relieving Byrnes was meant to show the public that the service takes issues of integrity seriously.

"We all swear to serve by the highest ideals, and no matter what rank, when you violate them, you are dealt with appropriately," said one Army officer familiar with the case. "Relief of command is a huge consequence. He's had an extraordinary career, but at the end of the day, the Army has to hold people accountable for their conduct."

The disciplinary action struck some military experts as severe, given Byrnes's reputation as a popular general who has been ushering in systemic changes in Army doctrine and training. A Vietnam War veteran who served as the commanding general of the 1st Cavalry Division and commanded multinational troops in Bosnia, Byrnes served as director of the Army staff just before taking over at Fort Monroe in 2002.

Byrnes's case comes after two prominent Air Force generals were accused publicly of sexually harassing subordinates, and as the Defense Department is restructuring its sexual harassment policies.

"It must have been the sort of thing where they felt they had no choice, given the recent history of personnel scandals in the Army," said Michael E. O'Hanlon, a defense expert at the Brookings Institution. "They're trying to make it clear that four-stars don't get special treatment. They must feel they have a need to send that message."

Neal A. Puckett, a military defense lawyer in Alexandria, said it may be unprecedented to have a four-star general relieved of command for allegations of an affair. He said removing Byrnes from his office is likely to be the end of his punishment.

"Usually there is no incentive to bring criminal charges, because they are taking his career and flushing it down the toilet," Puckett said. "There's not much more that you can do to a high-ranking officer like that. His legacy is ruined."

Lt. Gen. William S. Wallace was announced as Byrnes's replacement in April and has been awaiting Senate review and confirmation. Paul Boyce, an Army spokesman, said Lt. Gen. Anthony R. Jones, Byrnes's deputy commander, will take command temporarily while Wallace's confirmation is considered.
---------

Staff writer Dana Priest and researcher Madonna Lebling contributed to this report.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Seems to me that Ike's dalliance with his secretary was pretty well known when he was planning the D-Day invasion, and no one considered cashiering him.

I still think there's more to this story than meets the FBI. Someone up there didn't like this guy.

If nothing else, this guy had to be a democrat. Everyone knows that Democratic scandals always involve sex, and Republican scandals always involve money. It's a law of nature.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

"What's worse, sex or torture?" Well, it all depends who you're fucking, IMO. I've had fucks that were pure torture - I lied there thinking "I got excited for THIS?"

Seriously, though, I think this reflects the racism in the US. Torturing Iraqians isn't a big deal, coz they're just Arabs. But cheating on a white american woman?

In Sweden, we're striving to catch up with American racism. The state minister urges Swedish white women (although he left out the adjectives for decency's sake) to have more babies, because there aren't enough of them. At the same time, politicians are doing all they can to stop immigration. What they REALLY mean is that there are too few white Swedish babies and too many immigrant babies.

 

[oggbashan]

12 year old officer

It is on record that the US Navy convicted a 12 year-old Midshipman for an offence against Naval Discipline.

He was serving on a US Navy ship, I think in the war of 1812, when the Captain and other officers on deck were killed and/or badly injured by a broadside. The midshipman rushed below deck to get a senior officer to replace the ones incapacitated.

He was charged and CONVICTED of deserting his post WHILE IN COMMAND OF THE SHIP.

The family tried for over 100 years to get him posthumously pardoned.

Different rules apply in war.

Og

 

[Alfie Higgins]

He was serving on a US Navy ship, I think in the war of 1812, when the Captain and other officers on deck were killed and/or badly injured by a broadside. The midshipman rushed below deck to get a senior officer to replace the ones incapacitated.

He was charged and CONVICTED of deserting his post WHILE IN COMMAND OF THE SHIP.

Robert A Heinlein told this story in Starship Trooper