Why Are Gay Men So Prone To Disease?

[Etoile]

gay men who have casual comfortable sex with their friends (something that I have to admit I wish I had access to. Most of my friends are straight)

Actually, I suspect "friends with benefits" are actually pretty damn common in heterosexuals too. It may not be as well-known, but it's definitely out there. I think the idea that gay men are more likely to have "friends with benefits" situations is related to the "gay men are more promiscuous" stereotype. Yes, there are gay men who sleep with anybody, but they are the minority...just a visible minority, unfortunately, because of the negative associations that come with it.

 

[Netzach]

Are they the minority?

What if they aren't?

Are we now in the position of justifying ourselves, our demographics and our sex lives?

Straight men don't get studied because they are percieved as the "norm"

The ultimate clinical "norm"

we worry about their coronary arteries, but we don't delve into their twilight sexual habits.

 

[Lancecastor]

Good to see the name-calling has dropped off in favour of discussing the topic.

The fact remains that STD's generally (not just AIDS) and in particular Syphilis are spreading much faster in north american gay men than any other group.

It appears that LIW has discounted Queer's "it's the math" argument, and while African sexual culture is interesting, most of us live in North America.

So, what is it about gay men that make them prone to disease?

I suggested early on that the risk taking behavior was evidence of nihilism/low self esteem/self loathing, but people found that suggestion inflammatory.

The fact is, however, that promiscuity is usually a marker with health care professionals towards mental health issues.

Discuss.

 

[Queersetti]

Good morning, Q.

In the last issue of Discover Magazine, there was an article on HIV containing research about why the AIDS rate in much of Africa nears 18% of the population, while on other continents, the rate is 1 or 2%, even in some South East Asian countries with high rates of (hetero) prostitution.

What they're finding now isn't that high rates of promiscuity are what's passing HIV along so quickly in Africa. It's that both men and women have coincidental long-term (several years) intimate relationships with three or more partners. By coincidental, they mean a married man or woman has two or three long term lovers plus the spouse all at the same time. The article said that in most other cultures, couples tend to move from one lover to the next, which actually makes infection less likely. It has to do with the transfer rate--the more times one is intimate with the same person, the more likely one is to contract HIV through said person's repeated exposures through their long term lovers.

The way it's looking now, it isn't just the pure mathematics of how many one has been with, because being with 50 partners once each may not give it to you, but being with one woman 50 times who's been with her infected lover 50 times may.

This isn't a homosexual problem, it's a sexual problem.

Last time I looked, the article wasn't archived at the Discover Magazine article. It may be by now, though, or once the next issue comes out. Worth a read.

I think that you are mistaking having a higher average number of sexual partners with promiscuity. Most gay men do not jump from one one night stand to another. Most gay men are serial monogamists. So, there is no conflict between my belief that the higher rates of STDs simply reflect a larger number of sexual partners, and the facts you've presented in your post.

 

[Cigan]

Actually I don't necesserily say this because of the gay male promiscuity stereotype. It has more to do with the fact that gay men are friends with other gay men a lot. Straight guys often have nights out with the guys and straight girls often have nights out with the girls, and there are certainly times where genders cross in these situations, but based on my own observations this particular pattern is the norm if not the rule among my straight friends. When the friend pool is made up of people who are sexually compatible you will have more of friends with benefits. Again, what I have posted here is based on my observations of my friends and their patterns. I make no claim to understand people at large, in fact they often confuse me. But at least among the people I know friends with benefits is more common among gay guys.

 

[Lancecastor]

There's that new warning from the CDC about gay men hooking up online and spreading disease in San Francisco through quicky unsafe sex.

Nobody's really touched upon the behavioral differences between gay men and other groups that might lead to riskier more frequent fecal sex.

I suggested at the outset that self-loathing might play a role.

Society does put gay men pretty much at the bottom of the heap...whereas lesbians are adored by all.

Comments?

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

 

[Lancecastor]

That's why I disagree with Lance. It's not about African versus North American culture per se. It's about the physiology of disease transmission. Time will tell if this research holds water, but I think it's fascinating that this info has turned previous thought on its ear.

"Data from syphilis surveillance, the Gonococcal Isolate Surveillance Project (GISP), and several U.S. cities indicate that since 1993, an increasing number of MSM are acquiring STDs. Increases in STDs among MSM are consistent with behavioral data suggesting that an increasing number of MSM are participating in sexual behavior that places them at risk for STDs and HIV infection"

http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats/msm.htm

"While syphilis elimination efforts have successfully focused on heterosexual minority populations at risk for syphilis, recent increases in syphilis among MSM (men who have sex with men)highlight the importance of continually reassessing and refining surveillance, prevention, and control strategies. "

http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats/natoverview.htm

The CDC seems to think its about gay male behavior, LIW...but I don't doubt there is something to the disease trajectory data you spoke of.

 

[Etoile]

From personal experience, I've felt "safe" within monogamous relationships. Don't you, if you're only with one person for a span of months or years and they with you? Don't you, seeing no signs of infection or disease within a partner over say, six months, slowly begin to abandon using condoms? So you leave the condomn off once, twice, five times. You're fine, nothing bad happens, then you're up to 60 times or 85 times, and the numbers start to close in on you if that partner has, in fact, been an asymptomatic carrier for years.

That's why it's essential to get tested for STDs, even for serial monogamists.

 

[Guest]

 

[Cigan]

Do you think it's possible that more young men who are discovering their homosexuality are trying it earlier because they feel more social acceptance? Could explain why the numbers are going up for men having sex with men.

Anyway, I know I'm out of my depth here, but I'm glad I followed you and Q over and met some new people.

Good to know you, Etoile and Cigan.

I would agree and disagree with your suggested reasons for younger people discovering their homosexuality earlier. I think that there is a general social acceptance which allows them to observe homosexual practices and realize that they might be homosexual, but I don't think that on a personal level that it is much more acceptable. I remember being horrified people would find out I was gay when I was a teen (I'm only 22 now so it wasn't that long ago) and most of my gay friends in high school were the same. But before I saw gay subject matter in the media I didn't understand what I was feeling. I was attracted to guys, but I didn't realize that what I was feeling was attraction so I didn't act on it. It wasn't until I had gay friends that I understood my own impulses. So I don't necesserily think younger people feel it's more acceptable, just that they reckognize it for what it is earlier than they used to.

And there is nothing wrong with being ignorant of a subject. That is why we are here, to clear away the ignorance. So don't appologize for it. You are doing what so many ignorant people don't do, venturing to learn that which you don't know.

 

[Lancecastor]

Hi Lance

I do believe that people are people and no matter one's sexual orientation, you're going to get the same kind of breakdown of people who maintain bonds or play the field among the homosexual population as you do in the heterosexual one.

(Hi LIW...good to see you)

Because I think the same way as you on this...people are people, etc...I was surprised when I first researched the CDC material (after Heretic posted something about STD's (I think) on the GB about ten days ago) to find that MSM is a cluster experiencing higher disease rates than most any group studied.

I tried to find reserch to answer the question "why" but found little explaining the spikes.

I thought of gay men's issues/challenges I've read about elsewhere...fecal material, self-esteem/loathing, nihilism/promiscuity etc (I listed them in the first post) ...and then thought I'd start a thread to ask the question.

Despite the usual and anticipated LanceBashing, there's been some decent discussion...but I've not seen much meat in terms of other possible reasons why gay men are so STD prone and rising.

 

[deezire1900]

one great perk about Girl on Girl action...not as many STD's

 

[Bitchslapper]

Good to see the name-calling has dropped off in favour of discussing the topic.

The fact remains that STD's generally (not just AIDS) and in particular Syphilis are spreading much faster in north american gay men than any other group.

It appears that LIW has discounted Queer's "it's the math" argument, and while African sexual culture is interesting, most of us live in North America.

So, what is it about gay men that make them prone to disease?

I suggested early on that the risk taking behavior was evidence of nihilism/low self esteem/self loathing, but people found that suggestion inflammatory.

The fact is, however, that promiscuity is usually a marker with health care professionals towards mental health issues.

Discuss.

Are you on crack?

 

[Zergplex]

Zergplex Says

Are you on crack?

Lance on crack would explain a few things.... then again if he isn't imagine what he would be like ON crack O.O;; scary

-Zergplex

 

[Bitchslapper]

This is true.

 

[Netzach]

In spite of Dan Savage and "Santorum" I don't know a single gay male or buttfucking female who lists "fecal material" as something that keeps them up at night.

AIDS is usually passed via blood, it's the most common fluid transmission, last I read the literature. You fuck ass, you cause a little bleeding tear, more often than not.

I think we're getting a look at Lance issues up close and personal.

 

[Vulnavia]

In spite of Dan Savage and "Santorum" I don't know a single gay male or buttfucking female who lists "fecal material" as something that keeps them up at night.

LOL!