Why Carly Failrina will be our next President

[Publius1990]

But it doesn't just prevent sperm from meeeting egg, it can in many cases prevent implantation. Which by your definition would be ending a life. Really given the science the only way you can be sure you've 'prevented' rather than 'ending' is if you use a condom. Anything else and you're really more hopeful than you are certain.

Sean, I sustantially adressed your issue in my reply to Phrodeau, but not being lazy and refering you to that I'll address yours here.

I agree that contraceptive devises can prevent implantation. But if you recall our original disagreement was on abortion. With the prevention of implantation we are not talking about abortion. You said abortion was "preventing" life and my issue with that was that by the time we are at abortion, we are not preventing life we are ending it. You wouldn't agree that aborting a fetus at 20 weeks is different from preventing the implantation within the uterine wall?

I just think as a society we ought to be straight up with what abortion is. One can say abortion should be legal (I agree), it's a women's choice (I agree), it has no place as a constitutional amendment (I agree) and on and on and on. But having said that lets not avoid the hard moral issue that it is ending life - at a certain stage of human life.

 

[Publius1990]

If you agree with his first sentence, you explain yourself well that you do an understand its implications, then you cannot disagree with the second half. Preventing a fetus from becoming viable intentionally is still ending a life by your definition.

Ok, fine. If you want to cave on that I will. Then yes, preventing implantation is ending life. However, that still doesn't invalidate my original issue I had with your statement that "abortion is preventing life." I still don't see how abortion can be termed "preventing life" when life has already formed. Explain.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Ok, fine. If you want to cave on that I will. Then yes, preventing implantation is ending life. However, that still doesn't invalidate my original issue I had with your statement that "abortion is preventing life." I still don't see how abortion can be termed "preventing life" when life has already formed. Explain.

I disagree with your definition. However if you're accepting that preventing implantation is ending a life then abortion is ending a life as well. You STILL refused to address invitro I might add.

Both preventions of implantations and invitro however prove that this conversation was never (at the public level) about the science anyway. It's about the emotion. So either women have the right to control their fates and prevention or ending a life because it's inconvenient at the moment is right and proper or women do not have the right to control their own fates.

It's really THAT simple.

 

[Publius1990]

I disagree with your definition. However if you're accepting that preventing implantation is ending a life then abortion is ending a life as well. You STILL refused to address invitro I might add.

Both preventions of implantations and invitro however prove that this conversation was never (at the public level) about the science anyway. It's about the emotion. So either women have the right to control their fates and prevention or ending a life because it's inconvenient at the moment is right and proper or women do not have the right to control their own fates.

It's really THAT simple.

My God, of course it's about emotion and morality. We are human. It never will be just about science.

It's that complicated.

 

[Sean Renaud]

My God, of course it's about emotion and morality. We are human. It never will be just about science.

It's that complicated.

No, it's not about morality, it's about emotion. Which is why invitro, miscarriages and IUDs are treated differently than abortions. However to the best of our ability laws must be based on facts not emotions. We will err along the way of course but when we're faced with facts we have to choose.

In this case however we know that the real emotion primarily in play is "bitch know your place."

It however is not complicated in either direction.

 

[Publius1990]

No, it's not about morality, it's about emotion. Which is why invitro, miscarriages and IUDs are treated differently than abortions. However to the best of our ability laws must be based on facts not emotions. We will err along the way of course but when we're faced with facts we have to choose.

In this case however we know that the real emotion primarily in play is "bitch know your place."

It however is not complicated in either direction.

It may not be about morality for you, that's your call. But to many it is. You can't pretend to to know how others feel. Morality is a very personal thing.

 

[Sean Renaud]

It may not be about morality for you, that's your call. But to many it is. You can't pretend to to know how others feel. Morality is a very personal thing.

I don't have to pretend. If your logic allows you to create lives with the intent to destroy them out of pure selfishness but not to destroy a single life that you aren't ready to handle and did not intend to create the issue isn't moral at all. It's emotional pure as the driven snow. Unless youre one of those people who thinks morals should be subject to whatever twisted justifications you can come up with to escape your own code the moment it becomes less than optimal.

 

[Publius1990]

I don't have to pretend. If your logic allows you to create lives with the intent to destroy them out of pure selfishness but not to destroy a single life that you aren't ready to handle and did not intend to create the issue isn't moral at all. It's emotional pure as the driven snow. Unless youre one of those people who thinks morals should be subject to whatever twisted justifications you can come up with to escape your own code the moment it becomes less than optimal.

That is a twisted mess of bullshit. I had to reread it several times. You need to be more specific or explain in clearer terms what logic I put forth that "allows you to create lives with the intent to destroy it."

And there you go contradicting yourself again. "Destroy a single life." I thought you said we were preventing life?

And if you are destroying a life because you are not ready to handle it and you didn't intend to create it, get some fucking morals and individual (both the man and women) responsibility to use contraception and not be in that position.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'm done, I broke that down so far that Elmo and Barny would understand.

 

[Publius1990]

I'm done, I broke that down so far that Elmo and Barny would understand.

I imagine that was easy for you.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Of course it was. When you end up teaching as many classes as I do you learn how to break it down Barney Style so everybody gets what your talking about. It's the sign of a poor communicator if you can't.

 

[The_Trouvere]

its fucking retards like RJ and the other obama slaves that have ZERO idea how a business operates.

Have you ever operated a business? have you ever even worked for one?

 

[RjThoughts]

Have you ever operated a business? have you ever even worked for one?

"She's" said she writes and/or "her"husband has a business. I doubt either are true. I've yet seen "her" use facts to prove me or others wrong when it comes to running businesses. "She" just spews bullshit ramblings of a Neo-Con

 

[The_Trouvere]

Carly Failrina fired 30,000 people from Hewlett Packard. That is the kind of toughness the leaders of the Republican Party admire. The rest of the country might wonder what her jobs program looks like.

 

[Publius1990]

Of course it was. When you end up teaching as many classes as I do you learn how to break it down Barney Style so everybody gets what your talking about. It's the sign of a poor communicator if you can't.

Well you know what they say "those that can do those that can't teach."

 

[RjThoughts]

Carly Failrina fired 30,000 people from Hewlett Packard. That is the kind of toughness the leaders of the Republican Party admire. The rest of the country might wonder what her jobs program looks like.

Like she did with HP: Ship them to China

 

[The_Trouvere]

"She's" said she writes and/or "her"husband has a business. I doubt either are true. I've yet seen "her" use facts to prove me or others wrong when it comes to running businesses. "She" just spews bullshit ramblings of a Neo-Con

He/she/it expresses the attitudes of John Galt, while exposing the stupidity of someone who could not earn a meaningful high school degree or hold down a minimum wage job.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yeah, and those who can do both do. I'm not a teacher, I teach. Turns out smart businesses try to train their employees so they have more productive workers. Regardless if you cannot grasp what has been told to you it's your fault for being deficient at this point. As I said I've broken this down Barney Style.

 

[Publius1990]

Yeah, and those who can do both do. I'm not a teacher, I teach. Turns out smart businesses try to train their employees so they have more productive workers. Regardless if you cannot grasp what has been told to you it's your fault for being deficient at this point. As I said I've broken this down Barney Style.

I grasp it just fine I just think you are wrong. And I am entitled to that opinion. If you are an educator then you should appreciate the diversity of opinions and respect that. There is nothing wrong with ending a discourse with "I guess we just have to agree to disagree."

 

[Sean Renaud]

There is the part we disagree on and that's fair. Though in science there is no room for opinion. And then there is your utter refusal to so much as comment on invitro and your insistence despite the science that there is a truly solid line between contraception and abortion which via your opinion which I have humbly decided to accept as fair for the conversation there is not and cannot be.

 

[The_Trouvere]

FROM CARLY FIORINA’S BOOK, Rising To The Challenge:
California is now the home of 111 billionaires, with assets greater than the entire gross domestic product of all but 24 countries in the world. It’s also home to the highest poverty rate in the country. In between, the middle-class that survives is largely composed of government employees–the very bureaucrats who have milked the middle class of the private economy into virtual extinction.

Yep. Some people are criticizing her for layoffs at HP. I’d like to see similar layoffs in the federal government.

I would like to see you get fired, if indeed you have ever had a job.

 

[The_Trouvere]

FROM CARLY FIORINA’S BOOK, Rising To The
Challenge:
California is now the home of 111 billionaires, with assets greater than the entire
gross domestic product of all but 24 countries in the world. It’s also home to the
highest poverty rate in the country. In between, the middle-class that survives is
largely composed of government employees–the very bureaucrats who have
milked the middle class of the private economy into virtual extinction.

Yep. Some people are criticizing her for layoffs at HP. I’d like to see similar layoffs
in the federal government.

I would like to see you get fired, if indeed you have ever had a job. Anyone who
posts 31.05 posts per day does not have much of a life, especially when the
posts are as banal as yours.

 

[Publius1990]

There is the part we disagree on and that's fair. Though in science there is no room for opinion. And then there is your utter refusal to so much as comment on invitro and your insistence despite the science that there is a truly solid line between contraception and abortion which via your opinion which I have humbly decided to accept as fair for the conversation there is not and cannot be.

Where there is scientific fact I agree (I know amazing we agree on something, right?) with no room for opinion. If the law of thermodynamics says its 47 degrees outside, yeah it will be silly to say no, my opinion is its 53.

But we are talking about abortion. I don't believe the science there is settled. There is not agreement amongst doctors and scientists on when life begins. If there were why does the American Medical Association publish opinions on abortion. So when it comes to a complicated topic like abortion, there is science, emotion, morality, ethics all mixed in. And plenty of room for opinion. If it were that settled it would not be such a contentious issue.

With respect to not addressing your other issues I was going to wade in. But given our prior discourse I thought I would save my time writing and your time reading. And I would assume you don't care what I say anyway. A few posts back you said you were done. I took you at your word.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Of course there is consensus it's just complicated. There is a reason why there are specific terms for each stage. However you have your opinion and once you made it clear exactly what your opinion was that life begins when sperm meets egg I decided not to debate that point farther. I disagree but it doesn't change my argument by enough to care.

I was and am done. I'd agreed to your terms long before I said I was done, and asked the same question three times and you kept dodging it going so far as pretending you didn't comprehend the question. I took you at your word that you were simply incapable of answering a question.

 

[phrodeau]

Most people celebrate birthdays. Not many celebrate conception days or viability days.

And if you're only 20 years and three months from the day you were born, nobody will sell you booze.