Women.....AAARRRgGGg (rant)

[dirtylover]

I'm telling you, fuck someone else - it's the best remedy.

Relationships go wrong when one person wants more than the other, hence causing an imbalance of power. If you fuck someone else, you have more power. Easy.


You also kill another sliver of sensitivity, though, until you become utterly hollow.

But if that happens, just fuck another person.

And take drugs. Mmmm.

And then, when life seems to have lost all meaning, she'll come back and tell you how much she misses you. At this point. fuck her.


Repeat on and off for a few years.

Add more women into the equation who you have feelings for, each with slightly different spins on the situation.


Realise that progress is imaginary, and you'll just go round in circles ad infinitum. Post your grievances on lit.


(Actually, that's my life, not yours)

 

[raphy]

This, from Dave Barry.

Let's say a guy named Roger is attracted to a woman named Elaine. He asks her out to a movie; she accepts; they have a pretty good time. A few nights later he asks her out to dinner, and again they enjoy themselves. They continue to see each other regularly, and after a while neither one of them is seeing anybody else.
And then, one evening when they're driving home, a thought occurs to Elaine, and, without really thinking, she says it aloud:

''Do you realize that, as of tonight, we've been seeing each other for exactly six months?''

And then there is silence in the car. To Elaine, it seems like a very loud silence. She thinks to herself: "I wonder if it bothers him that I said that. Maybe he's been feeling confined by our relationship; maybe he thinks I'm trying to push him into some kind of obligation that he doesn't want, or isn't sure of.”

And Roger is thinking: “Gosh. Six months”.

And Elaine is thinking: “But, hey, I'm not so sure I want this kind of relationship, either. Sometimes I wish I had a little more space, so I'd have time to think about whether I really want us to keep going the way we are, moving steadily toward . . . I mean, where are we going? Are we just going to keep seeing each other at this level of intimacy? Are we heading toward marriage? Toward children? Toward a lifetime together? Am I ready for that level of commitment? Do I really even know this person?”

And Roger is thinking: . . . “so that means it was . . . let's see . ...February when we started going out, which was right after I had the car at the dealer's, which means . . . lemme check the odometer . . .Whoa! I am way overdue for an oil change here.”

And Elaine is thinking: “He's upset. I can see it on his face. Maybe I'm reading this completely wrong. Maybe he wants more from our relationship, more intimacy, more commitment; maybe he has sensed -- even before I sensed it -- that I was feeling some reservations. Yes, I bet that's it. That's why he's so reluctant to say anything about his own feelings. He's afraid of being rejected.”

And Roger is thinking: “And I'm gonna have them look at the transmission again. I don't care what those morons say, it's still not changing gear right. And they better not try to blame it on the cold weather this time. What cold weather? It's late spring, and this thing is changing like a damn rubbish truck, and I paid those incompetent thieves $600.”

And Elaine is thinking: “He's angry. And I don't blame him. I'd be angry, too. God, I feel so guilty, putting him through this, but I can't help the way I feel. I'm just not sure.”

And Roger is thinking: “They'll probably say it's only a 90-day warranty. That's exactly what they're gonna say, the scumballs.”

And Elaine is thinking: “Maybe I'm just too idealistic, waiting for a knight to come riding up on his white horse, when I'm sitting right next to a perfectly good person, a person I enjoy being with, a person I truly do care about, a person who seems to truly care about me. A person who is in pain because of my self-centred, schoolgirl romantic fantasy.”

And Roger is thinking: “Warranty? They want a warranty? I'll give them a damn warranty. I'll take their warranty and stick it right up their.... ..”

“Roger,” Elaine says aloud.

“What?” says Roger, startled.

''Please don't torture yourself like this,'' she says, her eyes beginning to brim with tears. ''Maybe I should never have . . Oh God,

I feel so .... .'' (She breaks down, sobbing.)

''What?'' says Roger.

''I'm such a fool,'' Elaine sobs. ''I mean, I know there's no knight. I really know that. It's silly. There's no knight, and there's no horse.''

''There's no horse?'' says Roger.

''You think I'm a fool, don't you?'' Elaine says.

''No!'' says Roger, glad to finally know the correct answer.

''It's just that . . . It's that I . . . I need some time,'' Elaine says.

(There is a 15-second pause while Roger, thinking as fast as he can, tries to come up with a safe response. Finally he comes up with one that he thinks might work.)

''Yes,'' he says.

(Elaine, deeply moved, touches his hand.)

''Oh, Roger, do you really feel that way?'' she says.

''What way?'' says Roger.

''That way about time,'' says Elaine.

''Oh,'' says Roger. ''Yes.''

(Elaine turns to face him and gazes deeply into his eyes, causing him to become very nervous about what she might say next, especially if it involves a horse. At last she speaks.)

''Thank you, Roger,'' she says.

''Thank you,'' says Roger.

Then he takes her home, and she lies on her bed, a conflicted, tortured soul, and weeps until dawn, whereas when Roger gets back to his place, he opens a bag of chips, turns on the TV, and immediately becomes deeply involved in a rerun of a tennis match between two Czechoslovakians he never heard of.

A tiny voice in the far recesses of his mind tells him that something major was going on back there in the car, but he is pretty sure there is no way he would ever understand what, and so he figures it's better if he doesn't think about it. (This is also Roger's policy regarding world hunger.)

The next day Elaine will call her closest friend, or perhaps two of them, and they will talk about this situation for six straight hours. In painstaking detail, they will analyze everything she said and everything he said, going over it time and time again, exploring every word, expression, and gesture for nuances of meaning, considering every possible ramification. They will continue to discuss this subject, off and on, for weeks, maybe months, never reaching any definite conclusions, but never getting bored with it, either.

Meanwhile, Roger, while playing tennis one day with a mutual friend of his and Elaine's, will pause just before serving, frown, and say: ''Norm, did Elaine ever own a horse?'

 

[sweetnpetite]

Some good points, but I think it's impossible to be objective about your own parents relationship. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but your parents could have had problems that they hid well. Personally I don't know how anyone can be happy, fulfilled and contented every single day, married or not.

People should however be more selective and be willing to wait a bit longer. But you shouldn't put your mate up on a pedastal so high they can't help but fall off.

the truth I think is somewere in between.

I have a friend who I truly believe is *finally* with her soulmate. Its been work, believe me- on both of there parts. If they didn't love each other so much, it would have been impossible.

Love makes the difficult easy and the impossible possible. I find this to be true with friends, spouses and children. In fact it's my definition for what love is.

Sorry Gauche, I don't believe in any of that.

If a partner starts messing you around emotionally, drop 'em like yesterday's bad news. The right one won't do that to you. And yes, these are totally my opinions, and I've lived (or tried to live) my romantic life by them for most of my adult life.

I hate it when people say you have to work at a relationship. I hate it when people say 'We fight, but we make sure we never go to bed angry at one another'. I hate it when people say if it's worth it, you'll work at it.

Bullshit.

There's 6 billion people in the world. You have to hold out for the one that you mesh with, so perfectly, so completely that you *don't* fight, you don't have anything to forgive, and you don't find yourself all tied up in emotional knots.

Utopia? Not at all. Everyone disagrees. You want to see movie A at the theatre, she wants to see movie B.

But that's a different kind of disagreement than one that leaves you feeling empty and hollow inside. That's a different kind of disagreement than one that ends with you slamming the front door off its hinges as you storm out.

Y'all don't think my kind of relationship can happen? My parents are living proof that it can. Before the far-too-early death of my mother, they were married for 28 years. From the very earliest time I can remember, I have zero recollections of any fights. They never argued. They never yelled at each other. They never made each other cry.

I never walked into the living room into an uncomfortable silence.

I never overheard voices raised in anger from behind closed doors - Not even the hissing whisper that people use when they're angry and want to stay quiet.

Never. Not once. Not a single time.

Every single day of my parents' marriage was happy, fulfilled and contented.

And I said to myself a long time ago that if that kind of relationship was possible, I would not settle for anything less for myself. I've seen the whole loaf of bread. I grew up in it. I'd rather have no loaf than half a loaf.

So, you see. I have proof that you don't have to 'work through things and put them behind you.' You don't have to 'forgive and forget'. You don't have to work at relationships.

You just have to work at finding the right person. It's my opinion that a lot of people don't want to wait that long, and end up with the wrong person. Because it ain't easy, finding that right person. I know this - But that said, going through the wrong ones can be a lot of fun while you waiting for the right one to come along.....

 

[raphy]

Some good points, but I think it's impossible to be objective about your own parents relationship. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but your parents could have had problems that they hid well. Personally I don't know how anyone can be happy, fulfilled and contented every single day, married or not.

I've often thought that maybe I was fooling myself, but the plain truth of the matter is that they didn't ever fight (with each other). It's not an easy thing to admit the existence of, certainly. But I can tell you that it happened, without a doubt.

People should however be more selective and be willing to wait a bit longer. But you shouldn't put your mate up on a pedastal so high they can't help but fall off.

Hmmm .. I don't think there's any pedestals here

Whisp knows exactly how I feel about relationships - We've talked about this a lot. She feels the same way as I do. It's kinda hard to explain. There aren't any pedestals involved, because no one's making any one else out to be perfect.

She has a saying which I'll repeat here:

"Nobody's perfect. But everybody's perfect for somebody"

Putting someone up on a pedestal is a recipie for distaster, I'll certainly agree with that - And it invites disappointment, when they don't live up to your (unrealistic) expectations.

But I've never put whisper up on a pedstal. She ain't perfect, and neither am I.

The trick isn't to be perfect, but to be with the person who matches you perfectly, the person with whom you can be 100% honest and they don't get mad, they don't get upset, they don't get judgemental - It's the person to whom you can tell all of your secrets, the person to whom you never have to say "I'll try to remember to do that for you next time."

... Because the things I forget to do, she never wanted in the first place - And the things I remember, those were always important to her ...

I don't have to work at changing to be whisp's perfect man, because she likes every single part of me exactly as it is - And vice versa for me towards her. I don't ever say to her "hon, that kinda irritates me when you do that, could you try and do it when I'm not around?"

The things she does - I like, and the things she doesn't do - I never cared about anyway. It's all about personality compatibility, and finding the person to whom you are 100% (or as close as humanly possibly) compatible.

I've been married once before.. It didn't work out. We weren't matched. I loved her, otherwise I would not have married her, but for me, love wasn't enough. She wanted to change who I was, and I wanted to change who she was, and I resented her for trying to change me, and I grew to resent myself for wanting to change her - So I ended it.

I loved her. But she didn't want me for who I was. We didn't "mesh", and I change myself for nobody. (And I didn't want to be responsible for changing her, either)

So, in typical logical Raphy fashion, I said to myself:

"Self, there's 6 billion people in the world. Each one is different. There has to be someone else out there with whom you *do* mesh. Go find them instead"

And so I did.

the truth I think is somewere in between.

I have a friend who I truly believe is *finally* with her soulmate. Its been work, believe me- on both of there parts. If they didn't love each other so much, it would have been impossible.

And if they were with other people, maybe people whose personalities complemented them, they wouldn't have to fight to make it work.

Sorry, that was a trite comment. I do truly believe that *any* two people can make a relationship work, but at what cost? At what cost to themselves and their self-identity? For example, SnP - You and I - How much of the essential me would be lost if I were to become the perfect man for you? (Or vice versa, if you were to become the woman for me) ..

If you and I somehow suddenly fell in love (We're stretching the bounds of hypthetical situations here, but bear with me), that love may prompt us to make those changes, to become the person that the other desires. Yeah, it would be hard work, but if we loved each other enough, maybe we could succeed at it, and be happy.

But (and no offence intended) I'd rather find a woman to love where I *don't* have to go through those changes. Because once I've gone through those changes, I'm no longer me. (And you're no longer you).

I have no idea if I'm making any sense at all. It's kinda hard to explain how I feel about this.

Love makes the difficult easy and the impossible possible. I find this to be true with friends, spouses and children. In fact it's my definition for what love is.

As I said before, what I said earlier, was merely my opinion - For me, relationships are black and white - If you have to "work things through", then it isn't the right relationship, end of story. Other people's mileage may vary, of course.

But after my dismal failure with my first marriage, a marriage that taught me a lot, and gave me some of the opinions that I hold now - I resolutely vowed to hold true to my principles and wait until I found the person that required no work to be with.

And here we are

 

[Guest]

I'm telling you, fuck someone else - it's the best remedy.

Relationships go wrong when one person wants more than the other, hence causing an imbalance of power. If you fuck someone else, you have more power. Easy.


You also kill another sliver of sensitivity, though, until you become utterly hollow.

But if that happens, just fuck another person.

And take drugs. Mmmm.

And then, when life seems to have lost all meaning, she'll come back and tell you how much she misses you. At this point. fuck her.


Repeat on and off for a few years.

Add more women into the equation who you have feelings for, each with slightly different spins on the situation.


Realise that progress is imaginary, and you'll just go round in circles ad infinitum. Post your grievances on lit.


(Actually, that's my life, not yours)

Gotta love DL!

Why do I find myself partly agreeing with you? Should I be concerned?

Lou - a romantic at heart.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I have no idea if I'm making any sense at all. It's kinda hard to explain how I feel about this.

I think you explained yourself quite well. You are such a practical romantic (I think I coined a new phrase)

I'm just glad that I didn't offend you, I was afraid that I might. (You never know, when you say *anything* about someones parents)

You and I, were we to fall in love, would probably kill each other, lol. On the other hand, my b/f and I have a very lot not in common. that doesn't disprove your theory, cuz frankly sometimes its hell. However, it's also a good lesson sometimes to learn to appreciate someone for who they are, even though you don't see I to eye. It certainly has plusses and mimuses. In the realm of harmony it can rank pretty low. But sometimes harmony isn't the best thing for personal growth either. I think if I actually were with someone just like me, I wouldn't be able to become my *best* self, which isn't necessarliy the *me* that he wants me to be, but the me that is able to question my own preconseptions.

Or maybe I'm just rationalizing, lol.

If I were single, I'd like to think I'd hold out for that 'perfect match' - you make it sound so tempting, but then I really think there is a reason for everything, so maybe for me it's better *not* to have that mirror image mate, and better for you that you do.

And now, we have managed to turn this into a philosophical discussion instead of giving advice to poor Snoop. Bad, bad sweet!

Sorry snoop. I would suggest giving this girl space, maybe even playing a little hard to get. Only you can decide if she's worth it.

 

[Guest]

Gotta love DL!

Yeah, his post was a fine piece of writing. I'd suggest making it the full story. Very passionate vituperation.

been there, Perdita

 

[Marsipanne]

I must say I'm prone to over-analysing. Everybody tells me this. Thing is, I over-analyse to the extent that I analyse that I'm over-analysing... So it all works out in the end. My rule is not to put words into his mouth. Don't assume he's thinking that, ask.

 

[gauchecritic]

Sorry Gauche, I don't believe in any of that.

I hate it when people say you have to work at a relationship.

Raph,

I obviously didn't make it clear. All the things I said in that post were about how to look at the end of a relationship.

I don't give a damn about how people see or deal with relationships, we are all different. I don't give a toss about how people outside a relationship see it. Relationships just are.

Personally I think if there's no tension, there's no relationship. If there's no tension in the longbow of love then Cupid's arrow will always fall short.

Doesn't your heart dance when you watch her sleeping? Aren't you appalled that she could love someone like you? Can your face really contain the wideness of your smile when you think of her? Don't you literally vibrate on homeward journeys? Doesn't the aftershock of orgasm run icy fingers down your back when you remember it, the next day?

Of course they do. This is one of the tensions which must be kept in "furious balance". When they aren't reciprocal is the time to give it up.

Gauche

 

[SnoopDog]

This, from Dave Barry.

Let's say a guy named Roger is attracted to a woman named Elaine. He asks her out to a movie; she accepts; they have a pretty good time. A few nights later he asks her out to dinner, and again they enjoy themselves. They continue to see each other regularly, and after a while neither one of them is seeing anybody else.
And then, one evening when they're driving home, a thought occurs to Elaine, and, without really thinking, she says it aloud:

''Do you realize that, as of tonight, we've been seeing each other for exactly six months?''

And then there is silence in the car. To Elaine, it seems like a very loud silence. She thinks to herself: "I wonder if it bothers him that I said that. Maybe he's been feeling confined by our relationship; maybe he thinks I'm trying to push him into some kind of obligation that he doesn't want, or isn't sure of.”

And Roger is thinking: “Gosh. Six months”.

And Elaine is thinking: “But, hey, I'm not so sure I want this kind of relationship, either. Sometimes I wish I had a little more space, so I'd have time to think about whether I really want us to keep going the way we are, moving steadily toward . . . I mean, where are we going? Are we just going to keep seeing each other at this level of intimacy? Are we heading toward marriage? Toward children? Toward a lifetime together? Am I ready for that level of commitment? Do I really even know this person?”

And Roger is thinking: . . . “so that means it was . . . let's see . ...February when we started going out, which was right after I had the car at the dealer's, which means . . . lemme check the odometer . . .Whoa! I am way overdue for an oil change here.”

And Elaine is thinking: “He's upset. I can see it on his face. Maybe I'm reading this completely wrong. Maybe he wants more from our relationship, more intimacy, more commitment; maybe he has sensed -- even before I sensed it -- that I was feeling some reservations. Yes, I bet that's it. That's why he's so reluctant to say anything about his own feelings. He's afraid of being rejected.”

And Roger is thinking: “And I'm gonna have them look at the transmission again. I don't care what those morons say, it's still not changing gear right. And they better not try to blame it on the cold weather this time. What cold weather? It's late spring, and this thing is changing like a damn rubbish truck, and I paid those incompetent thieves $600.”

And Elaine is thinking: “He's angry. And I don't blame him. I'd be angry, too. God, I feel so guilty, putting him through this, but I can't help the way I feel. I'm just not sure.”

And Roger is thinking: “They'll probably say it's only a 90-day warranty. That's exactly what they're gonna say, the scumballs.”

And Elaine is thinking: “Maybe I'm just too idealistic, waiting for a knight to come riding up on his white horse, when I'm sitting right next to a perfectly good person, a person I enjoy being with, a person I truly do care about, a person who seems to truly care about me. A person who is in pain because of my self-centred, schoolgirl romantic fantasy.”

And Roger is thinking: “Warranty? They want a warranty? I'll give them a damn warranty. I'll take their warranty and stick it right up their.... ..”

“Roger,” Elaine says aloud.

“What?” says Roger, startled.

''Please don't torture yourself like this,'' she says, her eyes beginning to brim with tears. ''Maybe I should never have . . Oh God,

I feel so .... .'' (She breaks down, sobbing.)

''What?'' says Roger.

''I'm such a fool,'' Elaine sobs. ''I mean, I know there's no knight. I really know that. It's silly. There's no knight, and there's no horse.''

''There's no horse?'' says Roger.

''You think I'm a fool, don't you?'' Elaine says.

''No!'' says Roger, glad to finally know the correct answer.

''It's just that . . . It's that I . . . I need some time,'' Elaine says.

(There is a 15-second pause while Roger, thinking as fast as he can, tries to come up with a safe response. Finally he comes up with one that he thinks might work.)

''Yes,'' he says.

(Elaine, deeply moved, touches his hand.)

''Oh, Roger, do you really feel that way?'' she says.

''What way?'' says Roger.

''That way about time,'' says Elaine.

''Oh,'' says Roger. ''Yes.''

(Elaine turns to face him and gazes deeply into his eyes, causing him to become very nervous about what she might say next, especially if it involves a horse. At last she speaks.)

''Thank you, Roger,'' she says.

''Thank you,'' says Roger.

Then he takes her home, and she lies on her bed, a conflicted, tortured soul, and weeps until dawn, whereas when Roger gets back to his place, he opens a bag of chips, turns on the TV, and immediately becomes deeply involved in a rerun of a tennis match between two Czechoslovakians he never heard of.

A tiny voice in the far recesses of his mind tells him that something major was going on back there in the car, but he is pretty sure there is no way he would ever understand what, and so he figures it's better if he doesn't think about it. (This is also Roger's policy regarding world hunger.)

The next day Elaine will call her closest friend, or perhaps two of them, and they will talk about this situation for six straight hours. In painstaking detail, they will analyze everything she said and everything he said, going over it time and time again, exploring every word, expression, and gesture for nuances of meaning, considering every possible ramification. They will continue to discuss this subject, off and on, for weeks, maybe months, never reaching any definite conclusions, but never getting bored with it, either.

Meanwhile, Roger, while playing tennis one day with a mutual friend of his and Elaine's, will pause just before serving, frown, and say: ''Norm, did Elaine ever own a horse?'

Lol, that was great. It made my day.

Snoopy

 

[SnoopDog]

Well, I realise that you can't be happy every day of your life. But once? Please?
Everybody keeps telling me that there is this special someone out there waiting for me. And I'm very happy that people try to help me and make me feel confident and all.

But some days I just lack of hope and confidence because I never experienced anything in my life that made me believe in something like that.
Oh well.......in the end there's always people on the internet that can make you feel better and have a laugh.
Thank God for this ! (if there is one)

Snoopy,

 

[Liar]

Well, I realise that you can't be happy every day of your life. But once? Please?
Everybody keeps telling me that there is this special someone out there waiting for me. And I'm very happy that people try to help me and make me feel confident and all.

I know exactly how you feel. (I think.) I have often felt that sure, there might be someone special out there for me, but how bloody long do I have to keep looking? Trying every possible candidate out, with all the breakups, confusion and crap that that leads to, is really tiring. I came to the conclusion about five years ago that it wasn't worth it, and stopped trying to find relationships by all available means. I may or may not stumble upon the true love of my life, but I'm not going to risk my sanity searching.

#L

 

[raphy]

Raph,

I obviously didn't make it clear. All the things I said in that post were about how to look at the end of a relationship.

I don't give a damn about how people see or deal with relationships, we are all different. I don't give a toss about how people outside a relationship see it. Relationships just are.

Personally I think if there's no tension, there's no relationship. If there's no tension in the longbow of love then Cupid's arrow will always fall short.

Doesn't your heart dance when you watch her sleeping? Aren't you appalled that she could love someone like you? Can your face really contain the wideness of your smile when you think of her? Don't you literally vibrate on homeward journeys? Doesn't the aftershock of orgasm run icy fingers down your back when you remember it, the next day?

Of course they do. This is one of the tensions which must be kept in "furious balance". When they aren't reciprocal is the time to give it up.

Gauche

All ove the above, mate

But I figure those count as 'good tension' not 'bad tension' ..

 

[Guest]