Writerly type questions - for once

[entitled]

i'm doing research for my Halloween story, and coming up severely short. Does anybody know general stuff about the fir bolg, tuatha, and daoine sidhe? Any sites that might give some good info? The best i've been able to come up with is that the fir bolg were early Irish settlers, the tuatha ended up being fairy folk, and the daoine sidhe are fallen angels. Not a whole lot to go on.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

i'm doing research for my Halloween story, and coming up severely short. Does anybody know general stuff about the fir bolg, tuatha, and daoine sidhe? Any sites that might give some good info? The best i've been able to come up with is that the fir bolg were early Irish settlers, the tuatha ended up being fairy folk, and the daoine sidhe are fallen angels. Not a whole lot to go on.

try googling Irish Folklore. I have a couple of hardbound books I can look in if you are still striking out online.

 

[rgraham666]

This looks like it might be useful entitled. Link

 

[entitled]

Thanks, you two. Think i've got enough to work my way around the malfunction now.

 

[BlackShanglan]

i'm doing research for my Halloween story, and coming up severely short. Does anybody know general stuff about the fir bolg, tuatha, and daoine sidhe? Any sites that might give some good info? The best i've been able to come up with is that the fir bolg were early Irish settlers, the tuatha ended up being fairy folk, and the daoine sidhe are fallen angels. Not a whole lot to go on.

Don't forget the Fomorians either.

In some stories the Tuatha de Danann (people of the goddess Danaan; many ways to spell most Irish names) are the later settlers, and the Fomorians and Fir Bolg earlier people they theoretically displaced. The sidhe are the fairies, but also, in some versions of the stories at least, the descendents of the Tuatha de Danann. Others make the Tuatha de Danann the gods; still others are fairly porous on the god/fairy distinction.

However, the "in some stories" is an important qualifier. The difficulty here is that all of this was handed down as legend and myth for many, many generations without being written down. There are now thousands of variants still being passed around by word of mouth, and dozens of written sources that contradict each other.

Here's one written source - which, of course, contradicts the ideas above. This is a snip from a book. You won't find it online electronically, but it might be of some use to you. It's out of a larger discussion about legends suggesting that the ancient Celts might have come from (and some returned to) Greece:

The reference occurs during a discussion of the lineage of the Tuatha Dé Danann which forms part of the introduction to the “Three Most Sorrowful Tales” of Erinn, and in particular to the Fate of the Children of Lir. Eugene O’Curry describes Nemhidh, the forefather of the Tuatha Dé Danann, and states that after his death, his people fought a great battle with their enemies on Torry Island. Nearly all of the forces on both sides were destroyed in the battle, leaving only three of the chief men alive:

"These three chiefs remained but a short time in the Island after the battle of Torry, when they left the country in three parties. Simon, with his party, went into Greece; Iobath with his followers, went to the northern islands of Greece; and Britan Mael with his father and followers, went to the island of Moinn Chonainn (Anglesea), in Britain. In the course of time the descendants of these three chiefs took, or received, the distinctive names of Firbolgs, Tuatha Dé Danann, and Britons." (Atlantis 383)

This reference is embedded in an early text; the men of the story are the ancestors of Lugh and Manannan, individuals who by the time of the Ulster Cycle had passed on to quasi-divinity.

One thing that's certainly a late addition is the idea of the sidhe being fallen angels. References to the sidhe predate the dawn of Christianity in Ireland. The "fallen angel" idea wouldn't really fit into their concept of the gods and the other world; that looks like a Christian add-on. The sidhe/fairies are quite a lot like humans in many ways - they have battles, armies, castles, and kings - and they're not at all cute or delicate. They're those with whom the wise man will not fuck.

Hope that helps -

Shanglan

 

[entitled]

Shang, anybody ever tell you that you're just one awesome equine?

 

[BlackShanglan]

Shang, anybody ever tell you that you're just one awesome equine?

Not nearly often enough. But that's a lovely start.

 

[entitled]

Not nearly often enough. But that's a lovely start.

Just a start, however. If i weren't leaving soon, i'd be giving you more than that. There was a time it was an everyday thing for me to ride a horse anywhere from 10 to 12 hours at a time, you know.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Just a start, however. If i weren't leaving soon, i'd be giving you more than that. There was a time it was an everyday thing for me to ride a horse anywhere from 10 to 12 hours at a time, you know.

*faints*

*murmurs quietly ...*

"Please, God, don't wake me."

 

[entitled]

*faints*

*murmurs quietly ...*

"Please, God, don't wake me."

*snickers*

Thought you might like to know...

*pets gently*

 

[cloudy]

There was a time it was an everyday thing for me to ride a horse anywhere from 10 to 12 hours at a time, you know.

You and me both. I still do every once in awhile, when I can get the time away. Poor babies out in the pasture, I miss my time with them.

 

[entitled]

You and me both. I still do every once in awhile, when I can get the time away. Poor babies out in the pasture, I miss my time with them.

i used to get paid for it. Worked for a couple of years training the wild ones. Now i miss having them around.

 

[cloudy]

i used to get paid for it. Worked for a couple of years training the wild ones. Now i miss having them around.

Yep, been there done that. I've realized the ground is harder now than it used to be.

 

[entitled]

Yep, been there done that. I've realized the ground is harder now than it used to be.

That's why i stick to the tamer ones - for the most part.

 

[yui]

Not nearly often enough.

*snort*