Writing process and writer's block

[gunhilltrain]

Without knowing details, it's hard to say what's up. Can you add some struggle to the missing part, since you say that's missing?

-Annie

It doesn't have to be a struggle, necessarily. In that short story I mentioned, everything in the last paragraphs is quite relaxed. It's just Marion explaining some things about herself after her seduction of Nathan. You can tell that they obviously like each other beyond the sexual aspects.

The weird thing is that I have never had a sequel. But today it struck me that there could be a prequel, which takes place twenty years earlier when she is in college. It's the event she describes about winning the twenty-dollar bet with another student. That gives me a chance to revisit Marion, but when she is younger instead. It won't be a very long story, but I like being able to describe how she was already becoming the person she is later in her forties.

 

[Belegon]

I'm a pantser.

I write by the seat of my pants, no outline... I usually have some idea where the story is going but sometimes my characters do surprise me, as though I was taking dictation from them and got caught off guard. I do have a couple WIP's where a character went so far on a tangent that it disrupted my actual story. But if you can twist that character back into line with your story goals, you usually end up with a very popular character, in my humble experience.

Most of the time, I know where the story is going without actually knowing the end of the story. I know what the crucial conflict is, and a lot of times (but NOT always) I know what the resolution to that conflict will be.

Part of my motivation to get stories written is often because I want to find out what happens, just like my readers do.

 

[magnetarhanggliding]

I can think of some movies that don't have that three-act structure, or not quite anyway, and sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. (I don't know if you've seen any of these). Terence Malick's The Thin Red Line feels rather strange, in that the main battle is towards the middle, and everything after that - a good hour of running time - seems a bit random, perhaps. It probably didn't help that he had to cut so much footage from the final cut, but I found it somewhat baffling. (I don't remember how the novel does it.) Kubrick's Paths of Glory also has the battle nearer the start, but then (SPOILER ALERT!!), there is the second, and real, climax with the execution scene He still has a coda after that, with the scene in the tavern, which I think was a good choice.

So, yeah, endings can be difficult. Maybe you wrote past where the ending should be. Or maybe you need to have an unconventional structure, which might work if there is a reason for it. (Like that is how life really goes, which can be a problem in a series.)

LOL! As soon as you mention Malick, all conventions of normality are out the window. I love his experimentation, and agree that many of his films do not follow typical structures.

I'm going to go back to the middle and rework from there. I was never happy with how the confrontation in the second act played out anyway. Reworking it will at least give me a fresh perspective and perhaps lead to a better conclusion.

 

[magnetarhanggliding]

Without knowing details, it's hard to say what's up. Can you add some struggle to the missing part, since you say that's missing?

-Annie

Hi Annie!

Yes, I know my vague descriptions are not helpful in trying to resolve the problem directly. Apologies for that. I suppose I am looking more at overall process of other authors as an inspiration on switching up my own for better output.

I think a reworking of the middle is needed which pulls more of that struggle into the end for resolution. As I just stated on a previous reply, I was never satisfied with the resolution anyway. Most likely a sign to have another go at it.

 

[magnetarhanggliding]

Part of my motivation to get stories written is often because I want to find out what happens, just like my readers do.

I do love the feeling of my characters taking me on a journey!

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Hi Annie!

Yes, I know my vague descriptions are not helpful in trying to resolve the problem directly. Apologies for that. I suppose I am looking more at overall process of other authors as an inspiration on switching up my own for better output.

Well, this morning I decided that a story was too drawn-out and repetitive, so I cut out one character and her subplot entirely and replaced another one with what I hope is a more interesting version.

-Annie

 

[gunhilltrain]

LOL! As soon as you mention Malick, all conventions of normality are out the window. I love his experimentation, and agree that many of his films do not follow typical structures.

I'm going to go back to the middle and rework from there. I was never happy with how the confrontation in the second act played out anyway. Reworking it will at least give me a fresh perspective and perhaps lead to a better conclusion.

Malick hasn't made that many movies, and I haven't seen some of the ones he did make. I'm not sure what is to be gained from comparing movies to prose, but maybe there is something to be learned from his style. The Thin Red Line is a pretty good novel (it's been a long time since I've read it), and sometimes Malick is brilliant in the way he interprets it. He also indulges in some footage that must have intrigued him, but doesn't work that well when I saw it. The narration, the "nature shots," and so forth are examples. He seemed to get a grip on World War II and then he dropped it along the way.

In The Tree of Life, it's not enough to have a family drama mostly based in Texas, he's got to have, well dinosaur scenes too. Frankly, Spielberg did a better job with dinosaurs.

 

[LargoKitt]

Hello Lit Authors!

I still consider myself a new writer and I'm having trouble with a story. Which has made me curious about other author's writing processes.

Do many of you use an outline when creating a story? My assumption is that some of you must, given the complexity of your tales.

My attempts at using an outline have been frustrating. Usually I cannot complete the outline. The few times I have, I was so dissatisfied with the outcome that it soured my on the story and I never ended up writing it.

I also enjoy not knowing where a story is going, often ending up in a completely different place than where I had a vague intention of going when I started.

This has now come back to bite me, as I have a story that I am 30k+ word into and have no idea how to bring it to a satisfying close.

I don't expect anyone to have a magic bullet to help me here. I am just hoping that I may be able to glean a nugget of inspiration from your processes and thoughts.

Thank you in advance for any thoughts you may provide!
MH

In my idea file I write a little synopsis that describes the gist of the story. The working title is there to remind me why I wanted that tale. "Sex on top of an RV on the road." The synopsis should hit the key points of the story but leave some for later. As a writer you want to have a story with an interesting structure. But as a person writing it --it helps to be in it, especially when you are writing dialog. Sit there and listen to your characters. Imagine their voices as different from your own. How do they react to the situation you/they have put them in. KEY POINT: Don't fuss over whether it is right in the first draft. Write 'blind', like you are in the same place as the characters. Leave from a writing session a bit 'open' and unfinished so you are eager to pick it up again the next time. Don't be afraid to let the story alone for a while. Above all, don't beat yourself up if it seems wrong or off. What I call the 'blue pencil rule' is: You go back into a draft and mark or note any places that 'don't feel right' but you don't have to 'correct'' them immediately. Never beat yourself up. Your mind is telling you that you know a better version. Come back later and rework the words, or see that 'this confrontation needs to come earlier, etc.'

Another basic tip: Some people are 'Write a few pages (or paragraphs) no matter how wrong they feel. Make them better later. Others need to be 'ready'. Figure out which you are. But it does help to have a regular 'no excuses' time.

 

[VallesMarineris]

This is most likely what I will end up doing. Time to learn not to get to wedded to what I have already written and be comfortable with changes.

You may benefit from my experience. A long time ago I started writing a long story. It was full of interesting and exciting characters and events. I wrote and wrote. But at some point I realized that no matter how much I wrote I never got more than half way through the story because the plot kept getting wider and deeper. 20K words written meant it would have to be 40K long; 40K works written meant it would have to be 80K. Stuff just kept happening and not much got resolved. I had to abandon the story. A painful decision.

But I found a way to get my stories done:

-- I write scenes. That's what gets me going. I see a situation with characters and the words flow. It's great.

-- But I keep in mind that long story I had to throw away. So I always stay aware of the dramatic arc. There needs to be an ending. At some point after I've got a few scenes in the can an ending will suggest itself. I write that down. Maybe as I continue, another ending will occur. That's okay. I only need to pick one. I keep writing with that in mind.

-- Yes, sometimes I need to throw stuff away. One of the first things I do when starting a project is to create a file named "scrap". I never delete what I've written. That's too painful. But it's fine to cut and paste things into the scrap file. They're all still there, waiting. Sometimes I actually go back and use them.

-- Eventually one of the endings turns into a scene and I write it. Voila! I have a story. I fill in some gaps and publish. Done! Very satisfying.

This seems to work for me.

 

[magnetarhanggliding]

You may benefit from my experience. A long time ago I started writing a long story. It was full of interesting and exciting characters and events. I wrote and wrote. But at some point I realized that no matter how much I wrote I never got more than half way through the story because the plot kept getting wider and deeper. 20K words written meant it would have to be 40K long; 40K works written meant it would have to be 80K. Stuff just kept happening and not much got resolved. I had to abandon the story. A painful decision.

But I found a way to get my stories done:

-- I write scenes. That's what gets me going. I see a situation with characters and the words flow. It's great.

-- But I keep in mind that long story I had to throw away. So I always stay aware of the dramatic arc. There needs to be an ending. At some point after I've got a few scenes in the can an ending will suggest itself. I write that down. Maybe as I continue, another ending will occur. That's okay. I only need to pick one. I keep writing with that in mind.

-- Yes, sometimes I need to throw stuff away. One of the first things I do when starting a project is to create a file named "scrap". I never delete what I've written. That's too painful. But it's fine to cut and paste things into the scrap file. They're all still there, waiting. Sometimes I actually go back and use them.

-- Eventually one of the endings turns into a scene and I write it. Voila! I have a story. I fill in some gaps and publish. Done! Very satisfying.

This seems to work for me.

Thank you for the reply!

I agree, some of my favorite writing is when I have a series of scenes in my head.

In the case of the story in question. I have no memorable scenes in the third act. I'll have to dwell on it some and may rework the middle as some have suggested so the third act can have some impact,

 

[Euphony]

I also enjoy not knowing where a story is going, often ending up in a completely different place than where I had a vague intention of going when I started.

Totally fair and everyone should write however keeps them writing.
Trouble is, for many, pantsing creates more work if you find yourself working on revision (which, is a key tool for how many of us grow)

The novelty of meandering couldn't make up for the brutal labor needed to reshape a whole bunch of fruitless threads and in correction of all sorts of continuity issues.

Honestly, it's a mindset.

I've never understood why "outlining" equates to the restrictive forms foisted on us in English classes in childhood.

You can divert in all sorts of ways while still having a rough idea and destination on paper.

Getting in the car and driving in a cardinal direction doesn't have to be any more constricting than carrying along a GPS and using its tools to give you some idea where to go and plenty of options and points of interest along the general way you are heading.

Planner or pantser always felt like a mindset thing to me.

Plenty of outliners don't drill down to the micro and refuse to kill off anything on the master document that simply no longer fits. And plenty of pansters essentially outline (with what I'd suggest is extra steps but everyone's process to unlocking their creativity/brainstorming should be whatever insanity works best for them) by free flow writing a bunch of drafts/musings then restricting it all down at some point when they feel their creativity muse is in full gear and they won't feel boxed in by some pruning.

Often we are doing the same things just viewing them differently.

Morning pages are pantsing but then many of those ideas filter into structured outlines and could be viewed as old school "process."

Do what works. Call it whatever you like.

Time is finite and if you ever find yourself losing swaths of precious creative hours revising or jettisoning hard earned work, consider re calibrating and incorporating a little more of the benefits of the other side of the coin.

Outlining works for me but I imagine if you polled 100 outliners, they all do it very differently and few like the BS we were forced to use (and have reviewed/graded) in school.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Well, this morning I decided that a story was too drawn-out and repetitive, so I cut out one character and her subplot entirely and replaced another one with what I hope is a more interesting version.

-Annie

Huh? The notion of doing that is so bizarre to me. I can't wrap my head around doing something like that. But then, I rarely have stories complex enough to have a sub-plot, let alone disposable characters.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

As far as writing block; I used to just move to something else, or just stare at my phone. Now I just write through it. I write something else. Writers block is probably easier to deal with as a plotter, since it's probably not the story being written, but the outline/layout. Personally I don't think there's much of a difference between pantsing and plotting. Pantsing is basically plotting with one less step.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Huh? The notion of doing that is so bizarre to me. I can't wrap my head around doing something like that. But then, I rarely have stories complex enough to have a sub-plot, let alone disposable characters.

The cut was in a story that's over 40,000 words now and is only 2/3 written (in first draft).

-Annie

 

[ElectricBlue]

The cut was in a story that's over 40,000 words now and is only 2/3 written (in first draft).

-Annie

After 40k, it's even less comprehensible!!

 

[gunhilltrain]

The cut was in a story that's over 40,000 words now and is only 2/3 written (in first draft).

-Annie

Some people here are natural novelists, I guess.

 

[magnetarhanggliding]

Totally fair and everyone should write however keeps them writing.
Trouble is, for many, pantsing creates more work if you find yourself working on revision (which, is a key tool for how many of us grow)

The novelty of meandering couldn't make up for the brutal labor needed to reshape a whole bunch of fruitless threads and in correction of all sorts of continuity issues.

Honestly, it's a mindset.

I've never understood why "outlining" equates to the restrictive forms foisted on us in English classes in childhood.

You can divert in all sorts of ways while still having a rough idea and destination on paper.

Getting in the car and driving in a cardinal direction doesn't have to be any more constricting than carrying along a GPS and using its tools to give you some idea where to go and plenty of options and points of interest along the general way you are heading.

Planner or pantser always felt like a mindset thing to me.

Plenty of outliners don't drill down to the micro and refuse to kill off anything on the master document that simply no longer fits. And plenty of pansters essentially outline (with what I'd suggest is extra steps but everyone's process to unlocking their creativity/brainstorming should be whatever insanity works best for them) by free flow writing a bunch of drafts/musings then restricting it all down at some point when they feel their creativity muse is in full gear and they won't feel boxed in by some pruning.

Often we are doing the same things just viewing them differently.

Morning pages are pantsing but then many of those ideas filter into structured outlines and could be viewed as old school "process."

Do what works. Call it whatever you like.

Time is finite and if you ever find yourself losing swaths of precious creative hours revising or jettisoning hard earned work, consider re calibrating and incorporating a little more of the benefits of the other side of the coin.

Outlining works for me but I imagine if you polled 100 outliners, they all do it very differently and few like the BS we were forced to use (and have reviewed/graded) in school.

I'm about three-quarters through the current story I'm working on. This one I did outline, but to your point, left it loose enough that I was able to incorporate some scenes that came to me along the way.

Everyone needs to do what works for them as you say. Being so new at writing, I'm still working on what works for me. I originally posted this thread hoping for a healthy discussion on the topic and it delivered!

Thank you for your insights!

 

[magnetarhanggliding]

As far as writing block; I used to just move to something else, or just stare at my phone. Now I just write through it. I write something else. Writers block is probably easier to deal with as a plotter, since it's probably not the story being written, but the outline/layout. Personally I don't think there's much of a difference between pantsing and plotting. Pantsing is basically plotting with one less step.

That's what I finally have done too.

Just wished I had done it sooner, lesson learned.

I spent about four months on the story in question. Since moving past it, I've published one story and have another one being edited in about a three week timeframe.

 

[FidelityBoss]

Hello Lit Authors!

I still consider myself a new writer and I'm having trouble with a story. Which has made me curious about other author's writing processes.

Do many of you use an outline when creating a story? My assumption is that some of you must, given the complexity of your tales.

My attempts at using an outline have been frustrating. Usually I cannot complete the outline. The few times I have, I was so dissatisfied with the outcome that it soured my on the story and I never ended up writing it.

I also enjoy not knowing where a story is going, often ending up in a completely different place than where I had a vague intention of going when I started.

This has now come back to bite me, as I have a story that I am 30k+ word into and have no idea how to bring it to a satisfying close.

I don't expect anyone to have a magic bullet to help me here. I am just hoping that I may be able to glean a nugget of inspiration from your processes and thoughts.

Thank you in advance for any thoughts you may provide!
MH

Outlines can be tricky, some writers swear by them, while others (like you) thrive on the spontaneity of not knowing where the story will go. For your current story, maybe try revisiting the themes or emotions you want to end on, then let the characters guide you there naturally. Sometimes stepping away for a bit or writing a different scene can spark ideas. No magic bullet, but trust your process, it’s gotten you this far!

 

[FidelityBoss]

You may benefit from my experience. A long time ago I started writing a long story. It was full of interesting and exciting characters and events. I wrote and wrote. But at some point I realized that no matter how much I wrote I never got more than half way through the story because the plot kept getting wider and deeper. 20K words written meant it would have to be 40K long; 40K works written meant it would have to be 80K. Stuff just kept happening and not much got resolved. I had to abandon the story. A painful decision.

But I found a way to get my stories done:

-- I write scenes. That's what gets me going. I see a situation with characters and the words flow. It's great.

-- But I keep in mind that long story I had to throw away. So I always stay aware of the dramatic arc. There needs to be an ending. At some point after I've got a few scenes in the can an ending will suggest itself. I write that down. Maybe as I continue, another ending will occur. That's okay. I only need to pick one. I keep writing with that in mind.

-- Yes, sometimes I need to throw stuff away. One of the first things I do when starting a project is to create a file named "scrap". I never delete what I've written. That's too painful. But it's fine to cut and paste things into the scrap file. They're all still there, waiting. Sometimes I actually go back and use them.

-- Eventually one of the endings turns into a scene and I write it. Voila! I have a story. I fill in some gaps and publish. Done! Very satisfying.

This seems to work for me.

That’s such a practical approach! Writing scenes first and letting the ending emerge naturally sounds way more freeing than forcing a rigid structure. And keeping a “scrap” file is not bad, nothing’s ever truly lost, and sometimes those cut bits find their way back in. It’s all about staying flexible and trusting the process. Thanks for sharing, definitely stealing some of these ideas haha.