You can have my guns when I can have your booze.

[Ulaven_Demorte]

I don't need to...I did 8 as an 11B, eat a big oll bag of dicks ass muncher.

I believe that as much as I do your $4K gun purchase and that you donated your last $700 last month to charity.

Say it with me - Zero Credibility, like most of the RWCJ here on the GB.

 

[RoryN]

I don't need to...I did 8 as an 11B and haz my M4 (SBR/canned) set up just like it....

Absolutely...complete loads to get a rise

Exactly.

 

[Disgustipated]

Absolutely....b/c I don't give a fuck...both are complete loads to get a rise, fucking sue me.

Sue you? It would cost me more in gas money than I would ever get from your broke arse.

 

[njlauren]

This thread is an example of the typical responses to someone supporting a position knowing they are on shaky ground, so we get the typical playbook.

-"You can't ban guns"......the problem with this is most of the gun control people are talking regulations and restrictions, not bans, and therein lies the first tactic, paint those you are arguing against as extremists (and before someone tells me I am doing that with the NRA, I can point them right to the NRA website and to public positions the NRA has taken, which is basically that the 2nd amendment guarantees unlimited freedom to own weapons, and that is hogwash, always has been).

By saying gun control=ban, you can have a reducto ad absurbium argument like "I'll give up my guns if you give up booze"..when ironically, booze is exactly the argument I can make from a gun control standpoint.

Let me ask this question, do you know the history of prohibition and why it finally happened? It holds a lot of parallels to gun ownership. Basically, prohibition came about because there were serious problems with alcohol, this wasn't all the bible thumping, demon rum nonsense.....alcohol other then for taxes was basically unregulated in many places, the number of drinking establishments was unregulated, many places kids could buy booze, stores could sell it without a license or standards, and there were real problems with alcoholic content and the like.....*****hibition wasn't the answer, because people recognized it for what it was, an overreaction (as banning all guns would be IMO).... what few people realize is that the repeat of prohibition brought with it regulation, laws came on the books making it so liquor establishments had to be licensed, there couldn't be more then a certain number of venues in a given area, alcohol content, other things could be regulated..and it worked, while alcohol has dark sides and always will, it has never approached what happened pre-prohibilition either.

The OP posts drunk driving, and again this holds water with the gun argument. Drunk driving when I was growing up as a penalty was a slap on the wrist, the laws made it at most an offense where you could have your license suspended. Thanks to the work of MADD and state legislators, they put real teeth in the laws, and also spent a lot of time and money on enforcement, which included not only drunk drivers, but also those who had served them the booze, and that has helped drop the rate of drunk driving fatalities and accidents to low levels (not perfect , but comparatively). Plus there was a concerted effort to change attitudes as well, public interest campaigns, etc.

With guns, the problem is the same mentality as existed pre prohibition was there, and that is somehow it should be able to be sold like candy or something, that somehow people have the right to do what they want, and that isn't true, whether it is drinking at 7am in a bar or selling 180 proof applejack in a grocery store.

What most gun control people are after are laws that enforce responsibility, recognizing that guns like alcohol have risks and responsibilities with them.

-Certain types of weapons, as with automatic weapons, have to be looked at from the standpoint of risk versus the right to own them. While legitimate people may want to own a gun that can fire 200 rounds in a minute and have large capacity magazines, the reality is the potential if that got into wrong hands could cause problems or if the guy cracked, makes them more risky then the right to own them. There are types of booze you cannot buy in this country, depending on what state you are in, and while you have the right to make your own booze, you cannot sell it or give it away technically.

Put it this way, you cannot buy a LARS rocket, you cannot buy an RPG, you cannot buy C4, for the reason that whatever reason you can think of for owning them, it isn't enough to overcome the risks of that. I would love to be able to buy dynamite, I love blowing stuff up, but I cannot, because my 'fun' isn't worth the risk (and yes, for the dumb-os who love pointing out the obvious, there is no amendment that covers these kind of things; but even the second amendment or any right is read to be reasonable right, no right is absolute).

What are needed are rational, National standards, and they are not totally unlike alcohol:

-Gun stores need to be held accountable for their practices, if joe billy bob comes in and fills the trunk of his car with high powered, rapid fire weapons, and the law says he shouldn't do that, he needs to be held accountable for doing that. Right now, states like Virginia, Georgia and Alabama have laws on the books that says the store owner cannot be held liable, criminally or civilly, which is idiotic. If a liquor store owner sells booze to a minor knowingly or doesn't check someone's id, they are in for a world of hurt.

-If someone buys weapons, they should be liable for them, as someone who buys booze is. If I buy booze and give it to minors, they can put my ass in jail. The way the law is written now, Joe Billy Bob buys guns and sells them into the black market, nothing happens to him. Any gun anyone buys should be registered and require updating yearly, and if weapons are lost or stolen, they have to be reported in. This will help stop the 95 highway that makes some rednecks a lot of money but is a menace.

-As prohibition proved, buying things illegally costs a lot more money, booze was a lot more expensive during prohibition (and terrible quality). If we helped cut off the legal source of guns to the black market, if store owners and buyers knew they would be held liable, the amount of guns would severely be restricted in the black market....anf the price would go up. If those selling guns to criminals had to get them imported, sneak them in, steal them by breaking into wearhouses, the difficulty would be high, the amount of weapons available would diminish, and the price would go up, cutting off those willing or able to buy them. (As I have noted before, 75% of the guns pulled off the streets of NYC were purchases legally originally, in a handful of states)

-Require that any gun owner has passed a safety test, that they have learned how to handle the weapons and secure them safely, which would include secured gun cabinets for sporting weapons and appropriate storage for home defense weapons, like trigger locks and the like. Also have on the law that if an owner is found to not have secured the weapons properly, that their be penalties for that as well, like if someone breaks into the home and the weapons were not in a gun safe (i.e owner didn't have one).

The gun lobby talks about enforcing existing laws, but what they don't want you to know is existing laws have been so watered down as to be non existent in many cases, and more importantly, where gun ownership and sales don't have the same legal responsibilities we do for other products deemed safety risks, like cars and boats.

We aren't talking prohibition, we are talking post prohibition regulations to enforce responsible gun sales and ownership.

 

[warrior queen]

I can't understand why the US doesn't have a national database of all people that have been declared mentally incompetent to own a weapon?
From what I've been hearing, if you are on a state register, you can easily drive to another state and buy there.
Nor can I understand why there is no requirement to have a mental health evaluation before you buy a gun?

Someone said they spent $4000 on guns this last week - I don't particularly care if that is true or not - but why is there no mandatory mental health check needed?
If you go into the armed forces or the police force you have to be checked, don't you?

As a starting point for changes to gun ownership laws, this would be a good starting point.

 

[RoryN]

I can't understand why the US doesn't have a national database of all people that have been declared mentally incompetent to own a weapon?

http://forum.literotica.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4

 

[Worm]

I have used an M-16 on 4 different occasions but other than that I have never owned nor used any other gun. I do have lots of booze and if you try to take it I will steal a gun and shoot you in your stupid face.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Exactly.

I believe that as much as I do your $4K gun purchase and that you donated your last $700 last month to charity.

Say it with me - Zero Credibility, like most of the RWCJ here on the GB.

Sue you? It would cost me more in gas money than I would ever get from your broke arse.

Good then we are in agreement that you're all just pissing in your own faces with these lame ass responses to someone not worth the time/effort of the high and mighty....BRILLIANT CHAPS YOU ARE!!!

Fucking morons....no wonder you call yourselves liberals

 

[Squibbs]

I don't drink.

Have at it.

 

[PoppingTom]

I do.

You can't .

 

[julybaby04]

Listen, jb: Years ago, I had a little cat, and when I took it to the doctor, I had to put her in a cage. As long as she was in the cage, she was nearly mad and tried to escape or knock the cage off. When we opened it a little bit, the cat wasn't run away. She was silent, almost instantly.

People work nearly the same way. In our country, we have the choice. But we have the duty to take consultations before. In the end, those consultations made a lot of people overthink their choice, and saved a lot of unborn lives. With a stupid ban of every choice, those people would have aborted, illegally, in danger of their life.

That's the way control works.

Gun control isn't gun ban. Never know if you'll ever realize this.

There have been over 54 Million abortions since Roe V. Wade in 1973. This board has been livid this past week that someone who was simply evil, killed 26 people.

54 Million sons and daughters have been purposely killed. If those 26 moms had decided to kill those children and adults before they were born, that would have been trumpeted as a "choice"......now it is murder and the focus is on the guns.

You can say that women were in danger of losing their life if they were illegal.....but the fact it 54 million of these women could live to see another day.....unlike the babies they killed.

Argue all you want.....there is no gun that has been in the hands of any person that has killed that many.

...and I know gun control is not a ban.....YET. What happens if the semi-automatics are taken away....then the murders happen with handguns.....just take them too? It won't stop until it IS a ban!

 

[LiFeNdEaTh]

Well a flint lock is a little behind the time bro....so yes.

A nice semi auto such as this would be rather well suited to thwart off a group of vandals.

sweeet

 

[warrior queen]

There have been over 54 Million abortions since Roe V. Wade in 1973. This board has been livid this past week that someone who was simply evil, killed 26 people.

54 Million sons and daughters have been purposely killed. If those 26 moms had decided to kill those children and adults before they were born, that would have been trumpeted as a "choice"......now it is murder and the focus is on the guns.

You can say that women were in danger of losing their life if they were illegal.....but the fact it 54 million of these women could live to see another day.....unlike the babies they killed.

Argue all you want.....there is no gun that has been in the hands of any person that has killed that many.

...and I know gun control is not a ban.....YET. What happens if the semi-automatics are taken away....then the murders happen with handguns.....just take them too? It won't stop until it IS a ban!

54million?
Hell, just as well - else the land of the free would have a much worse welfare problem than it already does!

 

[BotanyBoy]

sweeet

Oh I know right...I wouldn't mind one stack 410 shotgun shell/44 mag....fuckin' right.

 

[julybaby04]

54million?
Hell, just as well - else the land of the free would have a much worse welfare problem than it already does!

54,559,615...to be exact (as of year end 2011)..

.....nice to see there is so much caring and compassion for others...especially innocent babies....

 

[warrior queen]

54,559,615...to be exact (as of year end 2011)..

.....nice to see there is so much caring and compassion for others...especially innocent babies....

Oh, I have compassion and caring....
It used to be in my knee, but has spread to involve my hip as well.
Must remember to get it seen by my GP next year.

 

[LiFeNdEaTh]

Oh I know right...I wouldn't mind one stack 410 shotgun shell/44 mag....fuckin' right.

you should see my .38 smith an wesson, you'll fall in love wit it.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

There have been over 54 Million abortions since Roe V. Wade in 1973. This board has been livid this past week that someone who was simply evil, killed 26 people.

54 Million sons and daughters have been purposely killed. If those 26 moms had decided to kill those children and adults before they were born, that would have been trumpeted as a "choice"......now it is murder and the focus is on the guns.

You can say that women were in danger of losing their life if they were illegal.....but the fact it 54 million of these women could live to see another day.....unlike the babies they killed.

Argue all you want.....there is no gun that has been in the hands of any person that has killed that many.

...and I know gun control is not a ban.....YET. What happens if the semi-automatics are taken away....then the murders happen with handguns.....just take them too? It won't stop until it IS a ban!

Two fallacies in one post! Bravo!

False equivalency.

Abortion is not even close to the same as mowing down a bunch of elementary school kids with a gun.

Followed by the Slippery slope..

 

[PoppingTom]

There have been over 54 Million abortions since Roe V. Wade in 1973. This board has been livid this past week that someone who was simply evil, killed 26 people.

54 Million sons and daughters have been purposely killed. If those 26 moms had decided to kill those children and adults before they were born, that would have been trumpeted as a "choice"......now it is murder and the focus is on the guns.

You can say that women were in danger of losing their life if they were illegal.....but the fact it 54 million of these women could live to see another day.....unlike the babies they killed.

Argue all you want.....there is no gun that has been in the hands of any person that has killed that many.

...and I know gun control is not a ban.....YET. What happens if the semi-automatics are taken away....then the murders happen with handguns.....just take them too? It won't stop until it IS a ban!

Listen, JB, I understand that you see abortion as murder. That's part of your religion. Not mine. Because I think valuable life begins with the encapsulation of the baby from the mother. That's when it is independent from her, and can be called a persion. Before that, it's part of the mother, and the mother had to decide about her body. Nobody else, no matter how much you like it.

We can only agree to disagree here. You say it's murder, I say not. I respect your belief, but a lot of people think like me. I'm not pro abortion, never, but I respect the mother's choice.

In case of the murder of the children in Newtown, I think we both talk about murder. I 'd have a problem , if not.

The thing in both cases is that we can't prevent that with prohibitions. It will just satisfy your and my ideological feeling, but will fix nothing. I'm convinced, all the abortions would have happened even with a ban. If you really want to save unborn life, you have to reach the mother.

Same thing is with the guns. Who tried to reach the gunmen?

I think you have to ask yourself that question, if you think that any kind of reasoable control in the US of A is impossible.

 

[Squibbs]

There have been over 54 Million abortions since Roe V. Wade in 1973. This board has been livid this past week that someone who was simply evil, killed 26 people.

54 Million sons and daughters have been purposely killed. If those 26 moms had decided to kill those children and adults before they were born, that would have been trumpeted as a "choice"......now it is murder and the focus is on the guns.

You can say that women were in danger of losing their life if they were illegal.....but the fact it 54 million of these women could live to see another day.....unlike the babies they killed.

Argue all you want.....there is no gun that has been in the hands of any person that has killed that many.

...and I know gun control is not a ban.....YET. What happens if the semi-automatics are taken away....then the murders happen with handguns.....just take them too? It won't stop until it IS a ban!

Lol.

Shut the fuck up, moron.

 

[warrior queen]

Two fallacies in one post! Bravo!

False equivalency.

Abortion is not even close to the same as mowing down a bunch of elementary school kids with a gun.

Followed by the Slippery slope..

One has to wonder..... lecturing about abortion and murder on an adult forum.
Which religion is that again?

 

[BotanyBoy]

you should see my .38 smith an wesson, you'll fall in love wit it.

I do like S&W revolvers...but I'm a 1911 shooter.

Exactly.

I believe that as much as I do your $4K gun purchase and that you donated your last $700 last month to charity.

Say it with me - Zero Credibility, like most of the RWCJ here on the GB.

Sue you? It would cost me more in gas money than I would ever get from your broke arse.

THAT'S WHAT THE FUCK I THOUGHT.... phlegmy cunt nuggets..."OHH NOES MY CREDIBILITY ON LIT!!!" lmfao...fucking mouth breathers.

 

[LiFeNdEaTh]

I do like S&W revolvers...but I'm a 1911 shooter.





niice..

 

[islandman]

They get them the same place they get cocaine and every other illegal item in the US. From other criminals and the cops who confiscate the guns are going to be the ones selling them on the black market

You know, like they sell all the coke they sell from the evidence room.

And no the millions who own guns and go through all the proper channels for said guns are not the ones going around playing "Call of Duty"

which by the way in addition to your booze hand over your violent shooter video games like Call of Duty and Halo. They just encourage these guys.

So there's a massive pool of guns out there that gets recycled from bad guy to dirty cop to bad guy with no 'responsible gun owner' adding to that equation?

Give me a break.

Private sellers can sell guns without a background check performed on any purchaser at gun shows. Bad guys are buying them from "responsible gun owners" too happy to look the other way to make a buck. Only licensed gun dealers are required by Federal law to perform a background check.

Ergo, a large part of the problem stems from "responsible gun owners' themselves. You and yours should get your house in order first.

 

[njlauren]

There have been over 54 Million abortions since Roe V. Wade in 1973. This board has been livid this past week that someone who was simply evil, killed 26 people.

54 Million sons and daughters have been purposely killed. If those 26 moms had decided to kill those children and adults before they were born, that would have been trumpeted as a "choice"......now it is murder and the focus is on the guns.

You can say that women were in danger of losing their life if they were illegal.....but the fact it 54 million of these women could live to see another day.....unlike the babies they killed.

Argue all you want.....there is no gun that has been in the hands of any person that has killed that many.

...and I know gun control is not a ban.....YET. What happens if the semi-automatics are taken away....then the murders happen with handguns.....just take them too? It won't stop until it IS a ban!

A typical GOP argument, God, guns and abortions, and one even more illogical then another.

First of all the 26 people who were killed in Connecticut were people, they were alive, there was no ambiguity. With abortion, there is no way to know when a fetus becomes human, the Catholic Church says the fairy dust happens even before conception, based on some pretty wild suppositions (according to them, condoms are also technically killing a potential life, too), but the point is, that fetus when conceived (the standard the religious wrong use) is ludicrous,because the belief a fetus is fully human is based on pixie dust theories like 'the soul', which cannot be proven. A fetus doesn't even start developing the higher brain functions until well into the 3rd month, and without those higher functions a person cannot be self aware, cannot be truly human....and may I add that nowhere in scripture does it say anything about abortion, not one line. According to Jewish teaching, which the OT came from and which the early NT was influenced by, human life begins when the fetus can exist outside the womb, and nothing in scripture denies that view, it is only church teaching (including a man who says that priests abusing children is no big deal, or at least acts like it).

The 26 people killed in connecticut and others killed by gun violence were unambiguously people, which is not true of aborting fetuses, it is comparing belief to fact, and you cannot do that.

As far as if you ban assault weapons people will use handguns, that is again comparing apples to oranges. The kind of weapons we are talking of banning can fire several hundreds of rounds a minute can can have large magazines that can be swapped rapidly,the killing power of an assault weapon is much, much greater then a handgun. The NRA types initially kept making the claim (as did their house organ Faux News) that the shooter had used handguns, but he hadn't, it was the AR15 and the result was 26 people were killed in a matter of minutes, and they were all shot multiple times, which guaranteed they would be killed. If Lanza had had to rely on handguns, a lot more people probably would have made it through, you don't get off a hundred plus rounds in a couple of minutes the way he did with handguns. It is also a lot easier to disarm someone with a handgun, since they have to reload, which isn't true of an assault weapon.

The point is, weapons have different levels of killing capability and assault weapons of the type I am talking about are leaps and bounds worse then handguns. There are reasons why soldiers have those kind of weapons (that can shoot semi or full auto, unlike the civilian versions) and it is because handguns simply in combat are shit, they are slow and inaccurate and cannot kill.

In terms of handguns, the answer is simply making ownership a responsibiity, far too many rednecks make a killing, figuratively and literally, buying guns legally en mass and selling them into the black market and that has to stop. Guns are always going to be out there, but if we cut off the source of supply of legal weapons, if we make it too risky for gun owners and rednecks to prosper by sidestepping the law and make it so they know they will go down for 25 years, it will cut down the amounts of guns tremendously. Put it this way, the NYC region has some of the toughest gun control laws around, and the NRA loves to point out when killings happen, but the reality is most of the guns used are not purchased legally in NY or the surrounding area, they come from 4 or so states with crap gun laws, the 'redneck express' up 95..take that away and you will see gun crimes diminish.

Gun control would have helped in this case, because a cuckoo clock like Lanza wouldn't have been able to get his hands on an AR15, thanks to his even crazier mother, he wouldn't have the money or the skills to figure out how to buy one illegally were they banned, and had he used the handguns, the death toll would have been a lot less, for all we know the principal could have disarmed him when she and the psych jumped at him, or maybe she would have had time to conk the piece of shit with a fire extinguisher or spray him in the face with it.