1-Bombing on Loving Wives

[Lifestyle66]

I mean, if they read to the end and liked it, why not click on a star?

Why not click a star?

Why should they? Explain why anyone should bother to click on a star? That actually takes doing something. And what do they get for their effort?

 

[PapaRomantic]

So ... you write to be told that you're good.

Whenever this notion comes up, everyone denies that they do. Yet I see comments like this all the time, slam dunk evidence that many of us in fact do. A writer who will gladly choose significantly less eyeballs in exchange for higher score and more positive feedback. This writer is obviously writing more to be told that he's good than he is to actually share his story.

I thought I made it very clear that I didn't want to endure more "cuck fag shit" comments in the LW. Maybe you missed that part. I have written stories that I knew would bomb in the LW, and I don't desire that anymore. To me, it sounds like you write so MORE people will see it, whether they like it or not. I chose to do it a different way. But I guess I'm still writing to upset people because I knew this post would call you out.

I write because I want the reader to enjoy what they read. It's the same thing when I read - I want to enjoy what I read. Doesn't that make sense? Why would I want to do it any other way?

You can check me off your list - you've bashed me in a post now. You can move on to someone else.

 

[IWroteThis]

And once again, you are being excessively arrogant and rude.

Once again, no more than you.

The writers aren't writing the right stories.

I've never said that, and I find it interesting that you led with a strawman argument…

I have no problem with people writing what they want to write, but I also respect people reading what they want to read. So, what I have talked about is better category choice and knowing your audience.

The readers aren't using the voting system properly.

Well, based on the number of threads about it, you might be the only one suggesting otherwise.

The AHers are too dumb to read my posts correctly.

Only some of them.

Dammit if only everyone on the planet acted the way that I say is proper, I might actually be happy.

Nah. I have no desire to rule the world. That kind of responsibility wouldn't make me happy at all. It's bad enough dealing with the shit-stains from the assholes in my little portion of it.

Dude, lighten up.

I'd tell you a joke, but that would be redundant.

 

[IWroteThis]

Why not click a star?

Why should they? Explain why anyone should bother to click on a star? That actually takes doing something. And what do they get for their effort?

The same reason that they click on like buttons on other entertainment sites, most likely.

Besides, it really doesn't take much, unless they bailed out of the story before they got to the rating stars, which was actually the point I was making.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I thought I made it very clear that I didn't want to endure more "cuck fag shit" comments in the LW. Maybe you missed that part. I have written stories that I knew would bomb in the LW, and I don't desire that anymore. To me, it sounds like you write so MORE people will see it, whether they like it or not. I chose to do it a different way. But I guess I'm still writing to upset people because I knew this post would call you out.

I write because I want the reader to enjoy what they read. It's the same thing when I read - I want to enjoy what I read. Doesn't that make sense? Why would I want to do it any other way?

You can check me off your list - you've bashed me in a post now. You can move on to someone else.

I didn't bash you. i just pointed out your own logic, whether you understood it or not. Then you went on to agree with my stance yet still tell me off and insist that I am wrong. Agreeing with me and telling me that I'm wrong doesn't make any sense at all, so it's obvious that you don't fully understand everything that you are saying. You are also very being defensive here, which is always the ego stepping to the forefront.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I've never said that, and I find it interesting that you led with a strawman argument…

I have no problem with people writing what they want to write, but I also respect people reading what they want to read. So, what I have talked about is better category choice and knowing your audience.

Oh yes you did say that.

The key to "cleaning up" LW is to stop trying to force the audience to accept stories they don't want. The real trolls in Loving Wives tend to post bad fetish stories…

Well, based on the number of threads about it, you might be the only one suggesting otherwise.

First, I'm hardly the only one suggesting otherwise. Certainly there are many who claim that readers don't vote properly but there are many of us who are fine with letting the voters just vote. Readers will vote how they vote any you can't control that. To blame your scores for that is vain and only disempowers you. All of these whiners about readers not voting properly are simply just that ... whiners.

Nah. I have no desire to rule the world.

WHEW! ; )

 

[Lifestyle66]

The same reason that they click on like buttons on other entertainment sites, most likely.

Besides, it really doesn't take much, unless they bailed out of the story before they got to the rating stars, which was actually the point I was making.

The views versus votes issue has been brought up in the AH forum before.

MOST readers don't bother to vote. But what you are suggesting is that MOST of the views we all get are useless, and that MOST of them are merely clicking on a story then jumping out before reading all of it.

And by MOST, I mean that the ratio of votes to views may be anywhere from 1:50 for a highly emotional, grabbing story, or 1:100, sometimes even 1:200. You're suggesting that if your story has a 1:100 ratio with 1,000 views, then only ten people actually read your whole story.

I prefer to assume that, like me skipping posting a rating for an Amazon product I order, MOST people do the same when reading and when finished, they go on to look for the next story to read. They don't half-read dozens of stories but merely finish with a "Meh! I got what I wanted out of it." attitude.

 

[IWroteThis]

Oh yes you did say that.

Then quote me actually saying it. Don't quote me saying something else, like you just did. Pointing people to the correct category for what they write is NOT telling them what they can write. I'm not even telling them what they can post, just pointing them to where it will it be better received so they can stop bitching about the feedback they get for trolling an inappropriate category.

First, I'm hardly the only one suggesting otherwise. Certainly there are many who claim that readers don't vote properly but there are many of us who are fine with letting the voters just vote. Readers will vote how they vote any you can't control that. To blame your scores for that is vain and only disempowers you. All of these whiners about readers not voting properly are simply just that ... whiners.

And, once again, the Illiterate Shitress, despite claiming to be a writer, fails at words!

Even when trying to convince me that voters are voting properly, you can't bring yourself to say such a lie outright. "Readers will vote how they vote," is exactly what I'm talking about. The ratings are meaningless because readers don't even use them consistently, much less properly.

In your utter stupidity, you seem to have confused me with somebody of your own minuscule IQ. I don't blame others for my scores. (Not) sorry to ruin another of your ignorant rants, but I'm okay with whatever scores I get, as I know that they are unrealistic and misleading (and higher than reality). I'm not sure why you get so whiny about people who want useful feedback, but I'm guessing it has something to do with your vanity.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

And, once again, the Illiterate Shitress, despite claiming to be a writer, fails at words!

In your utter stupidity, you seem to have confused me with somebody of your own minuscule IQ.

And once again, lowering yourself to personal attacks rather than debate the point. You haven't learned a goddamn thing. If there's one person on this forum who doesn't give a fuck (flying or otherwise) about what people say about her it's me. Keep it up.

 

[IWroteThis]

The views versus votes issue has been brought up in the AH forum before.

MOST readers don't bother to vote. But what you are suggesting is that MOST of the views we all get are useless, and that MOST of them are merely clicking on a story then jumping out before reading all of it.

And by MOST, I mean that the ratio of votes to views may be anywhere from 1:50 for a highly emotional, grabbing story, or 1:100, sometimes even 1:200. You're suggesting that if your story has a 1:100 ratio with 1,000 views, then only ten people actually read your whole story.

I prefer to assume that, like me skipping posting a rating for an Amazon product I order, MOST people do the same when reading and when finished, they go on to look for the next story to read. They don't half-read dozens of stories but merely finish with a "Meh! I got what I wanted out of it." attitude.

No, you're assuming that most, if not all, of the views are relevant. I'm making no assumption about the validity of ANY views that don't result in ratings or comments. Instead, I recognize that they are a useless statistic that might mean a variety of different things.

As to your Amazon comparison, it's a really bad one. First, people tend to view a lot more products than the one they end up buying. Second, you can't really leave a rating until the product arrives and you have a chance to use it. So, it is extra effort to go find the listing again and leave feedback. None of that is relevant to the Literotica voting system.

 

[IWroteThis]

And once again, lowering yourself to personal attacks rather than debate the point. You haven't learned a goddamn thing. If there's one person on this forum who doesn't give a fuck (flying or otherwise) about what people say about her it's me. Keep it up.

No, I'm mixing the two.

Also, I have learned several things, just nothing good, when it comes to you.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

No, I'm mixing the two.

Also, I have learned several things, just nothing good, when it comes to you.

(yawn)

You: The sky is the color of granny smith apples.
Someone else: No actually, the sky is blue, not green.
You: I never said it was green, idiot!
Me: Uhh, actually ... /quote/You: The sky is the color of granny smith apples./unquote/
You: You stupid arrogant cunt, psg! Please find where I actually used the word green! Nyahh-nyaahh!

Your behavior is playground level. Pfft, this is wayyy too easy.

By the way - because I know that you can't tell the difference even if you wanted to, I'm not attacking you. I'm exposing your childish behavior. Unlike you who can only stoop to insults.

 

[Lifestyle66]

No, you're assuming that most, if not all, of the views are relevant. I'm making no assumption about the validity of ANY views that don't result in ratings or comments. Instead, I recognize that they are a useless statistic that might mean a variety of different things.

As to your Amazon comparison, it's a really bad one. First, people tend to view a lot more products than the one they end up buying. Second, you can't really leave a rating until the product arrives and you have a chance to use it. So, it is extra effort to go find the listing again and leave feedback. None of that is relevant to the Literotica voting system.

I get e-mails and text messages from various stores (both online stores and physical ones, asking me to rate my purchase days afterwards. Some of those are just as easy to "click a star" to leave my opinion. But again, why bother.

Unless I'm irritated with a product purchase, they just did the job as I expected. So, I only go that extra step of clicking a star or leaving a bad product review when they failed to deliver.

With our readers, IMO most feel that same way. "I've read a story I selected and now I'm on to the next one," without bothering to think of clicking a star. A small subset of readers may be in the habit of rating every story they read. But for most, it's only when your story hits them emotionally that they vote.

So, again IMO, it's that vote-to-view ratio which is the indicator of whether your story hits the mark. If you get a ration of 1:20 or anything below a 1:50 ratio, you've written a gold mine!

 

[MillieDynamite]

Who would one bomb anything? I mean, seriously, isn't that a bit juvenile? Surely, no writer would ever one bomb another writer, not even during a contest. No reader would be so angry about what a writer wrote, considering we write fiction, they'd stoop to hitting the one-star on alternate accounts, or use a VNP to hammer said story. Say it ain't so, Lit-ers.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Who would one bomb anything? I mean, seriously, isn't that a bit juvenile? Surely, no writer would ever one bomb another writer, not even during a contest. No reader would be so angry about what a writer wrote, considering we write fiction, they'd stoop to hitting the one-star on alternate accounts, or use a VNP to hammer said story. Say it ain't so, Lit-ers.

There have been a few times (maybe 4) over the years when I click a 1-star. Those were for the very rare stories which someone posts which have almost no thought or work involved, not clear arc or ending, and just appear to be a collection of notes for what they'd like to read in a story. But I always leave a comment telling them why it's so poorly written as to have no value.

 

[CalBishForNow]

Who would one bomb anything? I mean, seriously, isn't that a bit juvenile? Surely, no writer would ever one bomb another writer, not even during a contest. No reader would be so angry about what a writer wrote, considering we write fiction, they'd stoop to hitting the one-star on alternate accounts, or use a VNP to hammer said story. Say it ain't so, Lit-ers.

I've given a story a 1-star rating definitely at least once. It was a LW story with pedestrian prose, predictable plot, and wooden characters. I didn't see any value to it at all, even as unintentional comedy or a learning experience for the author; he'd done a dozen BTBs before it and a dozen after it. But I haven't used alternate accounts or VPNs to vote multiple times on any story. Agreed, that level of derangement is beyond me.

The star system says that 1 star means "hated it" and 5 stars means "love it." Logically, both should be very rare. A short story moving anyone to either extreme of emotion isn't a common experience for a well-adjusted individual. And yet, given what the average rating is, that clearly isn't how most people understand it.

Personally, I give more 5-star ratings than 1-star ratings. As others have said, I often just don't finish a story that's merely bad. There has to be something aggressively wrong with it before I'd go to that effort. But I also give more 4-star ratings than 5-star ratings, maybe even more 3-stars, because there's almost always room for improvement. Sorry for dragging your averages down.

 

[MillieDynamite]

This isn't about voting one time with a one, I've even done that, not often, but I have. This is about bombing, multiple one-vote downgrades to a story, or an organized group of one-vote downgrades (once or several times) from individuals. I would never do that.

 

[IWroteThis]

I get e-mails and text messages from various stores (both online stores and physical ones, asking me to rate my purchase days afterwards. Some of those are just as easy to "click a star" to leave my opinion. But again, why bother.

While that takes the searching part out, it doesn't change the lack of immediacy. Also, I'm not saying it has to, but every one of those I've received open a web page, so it's still more of a hassle than just clicking on a star.

Unless I'm irritated with a product purchase, they just did the job as I expected. So, I only go that extra step of clicking a star or leaving a bad product review when they failed to deliver.

So, once again, there's a major disconnect in behavior between Amazon and Literotica.

With our readers, IMO most feel that same way. "I've read a story I selected and now I'm on to the next one," without bothering to think of clicking a star. A small subset of readers may be in the habit of rating every story they read. But for most, it's only when your story hits them emotionally that they vote.

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm simply pointing out that you can't assume the behavior leading up to a shared lack of action. A person reading the whole story without voting looks exactly the same as one who clicks in, says nope, and clicks back out.

So, again IMO, it's that vote-to-view ratio which is the indicator of whether your story hits the mark. If you get a ration of 1:20 or anything below a 1:50 ratio, you've written a gold mine!

I agree that a higher vote-to-view ratio is good. The problem is, it still doesn't tell you why.

Here's one reason. If the combination of title, short description, and category pulls in a wider audience than your story suits, you're going to get a lower vote-to-view ratio due to a high number of people clicking right back out, no matter how good your story is. If it pulls in a more narrow and appreciative audience, it's going to get a higher vote-to-view ratio, even if the story isn't as good.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I agree that a higher vote-to-view ratio is good. The problem is, it still doesn't tell you why.

Here's one reason. If the combination of title, short description, and category pulls in a wider audience than your story suits, you're going to get a lower vote-to-view ratio due to a high number of people clicking right back out, no matter how good your story is. If it pulls in a more narrow and appreciative audience, it's going to get a higher vote-to-view ratio, even if the story isn't as good.

The ratio doesn't need to tell you why when it's 1:20. You can tell by the average rating that is it's at 2.0 or relatively low, the readers are angry or irritated. It it's 4.0 then they're generally enthusiastically enjoying it.

But if the ratio is 1:200 or higher, then the audience isn't impressed enough to bother.

The tight ratio of 1:20 means you've struck a nerve in many of them, for good or bad. But you DID IT!

Stephen King might write a good book and turn it into a movie. And if most of the audience vomits during the horror scenes, you can't say they "loved" the movie. But he DID IT, and he got the reaction he wanted from them.

My story, "Pavlov's Dog - 750 Words" in Loving Wives was written with that goal in mind: to get a reaction from the trolls! It's rated 2.3/834 votes with 18,500 views. That's a 1:22 ratio. And the low rating means I stuck a nerve with them! It lit a fire under them to vote!

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I agree that a higher vote-to-view ratio is good. The problem is, it still doesn't tell you why.

Here's one reason. If the combination of title, short description, and category pulls in a wider audience than your story suits, you're going to get a lower vote-to-view ratio due to a high number of people clicking right back out, no matter how good your story is. If it pulls in a more narrow and appreciative audience, it's going to get a higher vote-to-view ratio, even if the story isn't as good.

I'm a firm believer in votes to views ratio. It tells you more than the score does. Not everyone who votes reads the whole story, but very few people (other than in LW) skip to the end just to vote. So if anything, a story with a 50:1 views to votes ratio is getting a lot more legit reads than a 100:1. If that ratio is tight, you're being read, you're holding interest. That is big info for a writer. It also means that the reader was emotionally moved to actually vote. Some sort of connection, positive or negative, was made. All of this is more important than whether readers liked it or not, especially on a porn site where the large majority of reader's opinions on a story have little to nothing to do with the literature and almost everything to do with whether the piece matched their fave kink or personal fantasy.

 

[Hampshiregirl]

Hi All,

So my first story in the Loving Wives category published last night (I'm UK based). Woke up this morning to find it 1*'d to hell.
Angry at first, thinking it was personal. But then I looked at the other new stories published in the Loving Wives category and they'd mostly experienced the same fate.

Hello Maude, I'm a new author and also from the UK, hence my reply. I agree with you regarding the harsh responses from Loving Wives (LW). I'll read your story, I promise.

A couple of points, if I may. Firstly, I was aware as a reader that posting in the LW category could be writing for a tough crowd. As an author, I expected my "How To Get To The Top" series to get some stick, and it did. Some of the comments were downright horrible, but that's life; I'm a grown up and can deal with it.

Secondly, I formed the impression that some readers hadn't read the story properly. My story has nuances, namely that the cheating wife is enabled by her forgiving husband, whom she loves very much, and that as a young mother she is making up for her lost years, albeit it via sex. Some comments appeared to have completely missed those nuances.

I write for me, not others. If people like my stories, great. If not, that's fine. If they leave nasty one word comments and don't seem to have read the story properly, it's they who have a problem, not me.

Anyway, don't be disheartened, and keep going. We Brits need to support each other! ATB.

 

[MillieDynamite]

They didn't miss them; they don't like women with agency. Women's mouths should only open in praise of their husbands, to suck his, and only his, cock. They consider any man who lets his wife have a lover a weak, worthless man, and his wife a dirty whore. And believe me, they will tell you that. Voyeurism, Swinging, and or Interracial Romance are better categories for cuckold stories.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Secondly, I formed the impression that some readers hadn't read the story properly. My story has nuances, namely that the cheating wife is enabled by her forgiving husband, whom she loves very much, and that as a young mother she is making up for her lost years, albeit it via sex. Some comments appeared to have completely missed those nuances.

I write for me, not others. If people like my stories, great. If not, that's fine. If they leave nasty one word comments and don't seem to have read the story properly, it's they who have a problem, not me.

The reading experience is simply to read. There is no obligation to read a certain way or to read 'properly' as you say. If the writer puts an onus on the reader to read a certain way, then it puts a burden on the reader and that fosters resentment. The readers job is simply to read and soak up the experience. We don't want our readers to feel resentment. We want them to enjoy their reading experience.

If there is something in the story that the readers are not picking up, it is a sign that the writer may not have written it clear enough. I always grill my beta-readers on every scene to find out what the scene makes them feel, where they think the plot may be going, and if they are picking up all of the most important details. If what I'm trying to convey isn't coming across well enough, it's not the reader's fault for not reading properly. I have to make it clearer, deliver a stronger message, because I haven't written it well enough.

Now not every reader is going to get everything, but if you are having consistent issues with multiple readers not able to follow your details closely enough, you probably have to make those details clearer, sharper, more prominent in your story. To blame the reader is simply folly. It smacks of, "I didn't enjoy this," "well I wrote it good, so it's your fault that you didn't enjoy it." If that's the way that you're going to be, you likely won't gain many fans.

 

[Hampshiregirl]

The reading experience is simply to read. There is no obligation to read a certain way or to read 'properly' as you say. If the writer puts an onus on the reader to read a certain way, then it puts a burden on the reader and that fosters resentment. The readers job is simply to read and soak up the experience. We don't want our readers to feel resentment. We want them to enjoy their reading experience.

If there is something in the story that the readers are not picking up, it is a sign that the writer may not have written it clear enough. I always grill my beta-readers on every scene to find out what the scene makes them feel, where they think the plot may be going, and if they are picking up all of the most important details. If what I'm trying to convey isn't coming across well enough, it's not the reader's fault for not reading properly. I have to make it clearer, deliver a stronger message, because I haven't written it well enough.

Now not every reader is going to get everything, but if you are having consistent issues with multiple readers not able to follow your details closely enough, you probably have to make those details clearer, sharper, more prominent in your story. To blame the reader is simply folly. It smacks of, "I didn't enjoy this," "well I wrote it good, so it's your fault that you didn't enjoy it." If that's the way that you're going to be, you likely won't gain many fans.

Fair points, psg, thanks. HG xx

 

[WCSGarland]

Well, I loved it. I left a comment... as usual, awaiting moderation. I thought your story was good.