A letter

[twelveoone]

I know what you mean (I think) about iambic pentameter. It probably sounded pretty similar to speech in Elizabethan London, but now not really. I can read Shakepeare's sonnets and marvel at the word choice and how he strained the human condition into those little polished gems. But for the sonnet as a form, I rather prefer Ted Berrigan who sounds more familiar to my ears.

SONNET 34

Time flies by like a great whale
And I find my hand grows stale at the throttle
Of my many faceted and fake appearance
Who bucks and spouts by detour under the sheets
Hollow portals of solid appearance
Movies are poems, a holy bible, the great mother to us
People go by in the fragrant day
Accelerate softly my blood
But blood is still blood and tall as a mountain blood
Behind me green rubber grows, feet walk
In wet water, and dusty heads grow wide
Padré, Father, or fat old man, as you will,
I am afraid to succeed, afraid to fail,
Tell me now, again, who I am

–Ted Berrigan

Check out Empson regarding Willie; I'm sorry Mr.S
But with the sonnets, it's not only the IP, it's the Elizabethen conceits, the style of the metaphor; if this it that and this is that; then is becomes....
Now if berrigan can call his a sonnet, go check out my Blue Hour, it's inverted.
(the other branch was YDD, who I got the email about on Christmas Eve, Ryb haunted me I swear) I figured Tzara would have at least stopped by and gave me a half a million reasons why it sucked, and where is the volta? etc. etc. So I put two of 'em in, just not in the right places, just like my
I am really sorry to hear about jd4george. when we did Interact his emails where so riddled with puns I would reply, and after I hit send, it would hit me. Oh, my God, he got me again.
Best wishes, season's greetings

 

[Angeline]

Check out Empson regarding Willie; I'm sorry Mr.S
But with the sonnets, it's not only the IP, it's the Elizabethen conceits, the style of the metaphor; if this it that and this is that; then is becomes....
Now if berrigan can call his a sonnet, go check out my Blue Hour, it's inverted.
(the other branch was YDD, who I got the email about on Christmas Eve, Ryb haunted me I swear) I figured Tzara would have at least stopped by and gave me a half a million reasons why it sucked, and where is the volta? etc. etc. So I put two of 'em in, just not in the right places, just like my
I am really sorry to hear about jd4george. when we did Interact his emails where so riddled with puns I would reply, and after I hit send, it would hit me. Oh, my God, he got me again.
Best wishes, season's greetings

I find some kind of weird irony in that we lost some of the best critics this place ever had. smithpeter was no critic: he'd have been the first to say that. But he wrote with an openess and a visual sense that makes up for what he lacked in the knowledge of palimpsest. He was a natural. Rybka was a gentle goodhearted fishy who had a heart of ice about poetry. He could point out every flaw but had a tender spot (as do you) for beauty and lyricism in a poem. He could be very gentle with newbies, too.

I'll tell you a great Rybka story. There was a young man who washed up on these shores who was cutting himself and writing about suicide. Rybka talked to him and encouraged others here to do so, about the kid's angsty poems and why it is better to stick around and keep writing. And Rybka made a connection with him and got him help. He had a very good heart.

YDD was a gift from the angels to me. She loved some of my poems and the ones she did not like or wherever she thought I was compromising she could point out with spot on accuracy.

jd4george was a Mainer and he had had a hard life, did a bunch of time and then lived clean for a long time, too. This was no secret: if one reads his poems it's all there. He had a really good ear for spoken word and he was very clear in whatever he had to say.

I miss them all and I wish some of the others would come back. People like Anna and jthserra and Lauren and Wicked Eve. Denis Mahagin, Pat Carrington, Tathagata. So many wonderful poets and critics. I'm glad to see Senna still pop up (and you) from time to time because you get people thinking.

 

[CharleyH]

I find some kind of weird irony in that we lost some of the best critics this place ever had. smithpeter was no critic: he'd have been the first to say that. But he wrote with an openess and a visual sense that makes up for what he lacked in the knowledge of palimpsest. He was a natural. Rybka was a gentle goodhearted fishy who had a heart of ice about poetry. He could point out every flaw but had a tender spot (as do you) for beauty and lyricism in a poem. He could be very gentle with newbies, too.

I'll tell you a great Rybka story. There was a young man who washed up on these shores who was cutting himself and writing about suicide. Rybka talked to him and encouraged others here to do so, about the kid's angsty poems and why it is better to stick around and keep writing. And Rybka made a connection with him and got him help. He had a very good heart.

YDD was a gift from the angels to me. She loved some of my poems and the ones she did not like or wherever she thought I was compromising she could point out with spot on accuracy.

jd4george was a Mainer and he had had a hard life, did a bunch of time and then lived clean for a long time, too. This was no secret: if one reads his poems it's all there. He had a really good ear for spoken word and he was very clear in whatever he had to say.

I miss them all and I wish some of the others would come back. People like Anna and jthserra and Lauren and Wicked Eve. Denis Mahagin, Pat Carrington, Tathagata. So many wonderful poets and critics. I'm glad to see Senna still pop up (and you) from time to time because you get people thinking.

I adore that you talk about your favourite poets!

 

[champagne1982]

Ange, I did not know about jd4george passing. This saddens me. I remember how I picked him out of the tailings of another message board and brought him to lit. Talk about a diamond ... I am so happy his poems are here.

P.S. my family knows where to find my poems. Telling them was important to me when I was into my "afterlife" planning stage of valve disease.

p.s.s. 1201, I'm glad you're doing an E listing in your reviews. Maybe, once I am finished this year into the dry land of business admin and accounting, I will have some time and more importantly, energy, to reinvolve myself with the forum, the new poems and all of the amazing poets who contribute to making life a little more metaphorical, until then... I read, I do read, and sometimes I pop a poem onto a thread.

 

[fridayam]

Ange, I did not know about jd4george passing. This saddens me. I remember how I picked him out of the tailings of another message board and brought him to lit. Talk about a diamond ... I am so happy his poems are here.

P.S. my family knows where to find my poems. Telling them was important to me when I was into my "afterlife" planning stage of valve disease.

p.s.s. 1201, I'm glad you're doing an E listing in your reviews. Maybe, once I am finished this year into the dry land of business admin and accounting, I will have some time and more importantly, energy, to reinvolve myself with the forum, the new poems and all of the amazing poets who contribute to making life a little more metaphorical, until then... I read, I do read, and sometimes I pop a poem onto a thread.

And we do love you for it and want you back

 

[bogusagain]

For my part, someone who makes a comment like this is either not serious about writing poetry—skill in critical analysis is central to any MFA or MA program I can think of with anything to do with poetry, be it reading or writing it, and even if you reject everything related to MFA programs, the ability to analyze one's own work would seem to be really important—or self-centered to a degree that makes conversation with them irrelevant.

If there's a third position there, I'd really like someone to show it to me.

Read, listen, discuss and absorb and then allow the subconscious to do the work? Or is that the same as what you are proposing?

I can't write when I'm intellectualising but am aware that writing is a craft but then when I draw, I don't intellectualise either. The hard work of learning a craft is never finished but one reaches a level where one is not conscious of the process of learning, it feels more like discovery. The intellectualising comes afterwards as though analysing the work of another person. I think it is at this point one takes on board the lesson, if one wants to. I don't think it is necessary to sweat over theory or criticism but it's a little silly to dismiss it. I have to admit, I find it difficult to articulate my thoughts on a work as to why something hits a false note or clangs like a cracked bell. It's easy to point out paradoxes and contradictions in a work but not so easy when something in an apparent faultless rhythm just doesn't have the alchemy to make a poem live.

 

[bogusagain]

Maybe I'm just talking bollocks. It's damn cold here and I'm avoiding going out to dutifully buy christmas presents for people who won't appreciate them and feel resentful I have to face the weather on their behalf.

 

[twelveoone]

Maybe I'm just talking bollocks. It's damn cold here and I'm avoiding going out to dutifully buy christmas presents for people who won't appreciate them and feel resentful I have to face the weather on their behalf.

I could use a book on charm.

Oh I wasn't on your list?

well you weren't on mine

I'm keeping the ManUnited shirt for my self now.

Hey bog; merry christmas

 

[twelveoone]

I don't think it is necessary to sweat over theory or criticism but it's a little silly to dismiss it. I have to admit, I find it difficult to articulate my thoughts on a work as to why something hits a false note or clangs like a cracked bell. It's easy to point out paradoxes and contradictions in a work but not so easy when something in an apparent faultless rhythm just doesn't have the alchemy to make a poem live.

well now, maybe you can see the genius of me now, over here (US) we have a cracked bell, we got it when we decided our George was better than yours, who wasn't even English. most of my stuff is written under that cracked bell, you're just responding to the overtones.

and tell your friend Tzara who wants a third position to go visit that temple in India, where they must have about a 1,000 of them.

How have you been? Successful I hope. How are the Germans, all switched over to English by now? After all we won the last one, killed hitler and liberated Australia, they've switched over.

It's a bitch that I have to get all my history from movies.
so I quote Brad Pitt
[faking Italian with a Southern accent] Bawn gorno.
(Inglourious Basterds)

 

[twelveoone]

YDD was a gift from the angels to me. She loved some of my poems and the ones she did not like or wherever she thought I was compromising she could point out with spot on accuracy.

jd4george was a Mainer and he had had a hard life, did a bunch of time and then lived clean for a long time, too. This was no secret: if one reads his poems it's all there. He had a really good ear for spoken word and he was very clear in whatever he had to say.

I miss them all and I wish some of the others would come back. People like Anna and jthserra and Lauren and Wicked Eve. Denis Mahagin, Pat Carrington, Tathagata. So many wonderful poets and critics. I'm glad to see Senna still pop up (and you) from time to time because you get people thinking.

YDD was one of the reasons I thought this place had value, comments were true; jthserra this guy was truly amazing, a monster in his own write (pun -and ref to something else)
Now as far as
Anna Swirls and WickedEve (and me for that matter) you would not find these elsewhere, the style is too strange, Senna fits into this category ( I know he's not going to like that, lumping me in with...tough)
a little thing I found yesterday

Remember I was complaining about them looking like legal documents from Seven Types of Ambiguity by William Empson pg. 51

Thou dost love her, because thou know'st I love her;
And for my sake even so doth she abuse me,
Suffering my friend for my sake to approve her.
If I lose thee, my loss is my love's gain,
And losing her, my friend hath found that loss;


According as line 3 goes backwards or forwards, the subject is either she or I. The device is not here merely a rhythmic one, but it carries no great depth of meaning: the Elizabethans were trained to use lines that went both ways...


from sonnet 42 from the godfather of english soul
(see what I mean, about me, who else would compare WS to James Brown)
now the above, I did not know, even though I read empson once before, I just happened to be reading it again and viola..)
I recommend this book, it is tough, but important...

,,,back to anna and eve, remember when I got my tits caught in a wringer, from you and someone else for describing their work as being deceptive they do require a different way of reading,
so in a very weird way my "postcard' is a tribute to them (and Tara Blackwood, for a completely different reason)
I wish them here, not there in the poem if you want to call it that.
That was an complete act of the deception by hiding everything in plain sight, everything in it is not what it appears to be and can be read in a variety of ways, and no comment (effect of canceling) picked up on the fact I referred to what at best as light variable breezes as being unsettling. Nothing is what it appears to be at first sight (don't get into it to far, it's not real pleasent - but the core is buried like 5 levels deep)

And I see some thank you's to me; my reward has been in seeing some old faces, and interest, and hopefully a sort of repayment for learning from you, (plural).
I am saddened with the news jd4 (was he ever published?), but Ange remember Interact#3, where I called him the master of repetition, and then in Interact#4 where he was dethroned...by you. Gotta love it.

A great time, great bunch. involved. Rybka I feared, there was something about him that was too good Much the same way I feel about Tzara. This new bunch impresses me.
Enjoy the holidays,

because after them, I'll be back
to break the collective balls of you'all.
metaphorically

 

[bogusagain]

well now, maybe you can see the genius of me now, over here (US) we have a cracked bell, we got it when we decided our George was better than yours, who wasn't even English. most of my stuff is written under that cracked bell, you're just responding to the overtones.

Well you had an English George and we had a mad German George, it just wasn't a fair.

As for the crack, my crack detector isn't up to scratch. When I think my own stuff isn't working, I tend to just rewrite. When somneone elses work isn't working, I just say it isn't working, it sounds like a cracked bell. I'm a man of a few words who has moments of verbal diarhoea. (there I go with cracks again)

and tell your friend Tzara who wants a third position to go visit that temple in India, where they must have about a 1,000 of them.

I was in India recently. There are more belles than bells but I doubt that would put Tzara off his stroke.

How have you been? Successful I hope. How are the Germans, all switched over to English by now? After all we won the last one, killed hitler and liberated Australia, they've switched over.

I'm earning a living at what I like doing, which is better than being on the treadmill where only suicide, being murdered at the hands of ones lover or some other premature death will free you but fame and fortune still elude me. I've got a mad German woman from Hannover in my life so I couldn't end up as meat parcels in the Bondes Post but she has her compensations, if you know what I mean. I don't know if Hannover breeds mad women but this is my second raving fallopian from that town

It's a bitch that I have to get all my history from movies.
so I quote Brad Pitt
[faking Italian with a Southern accent] Bawn gorno.
(Inglourious Basterds)

They love that film over here. Germans have learnt to take insults as compliments, though I suppose they have little choice. I haven't seen it but her from Hannover has, twice with her sister. Her sister also being mad as a hatter, though alluringly attractive, which is how you end up with such nutters in the first place.

Anyway, it's great to see you and Tzara still around. It's pointless asking you what you are up to because you are a man of secrets but its nice to know your still on this side of the undertaker's window. I was really surprised to see you. I have lurked occasionally, though not too often, I've had a really busy year.

 

[vrosej10]

well now, maybe you can see the genius of me now, over here (US) we have a cracked bell, we got it when we decided our George was better than yours, who wasn't even English. most of my stuff is written under that cracked bell, you're just responding to the overtones.

and tell your friend Tzara who wants a third position to go visit that temple in India, where they must have about a 1,000 of them.

How have you been? Successful I hope. How are the Germans, all switched over to English by now? After all we won the last one, killed hitler and liberated Australia, they've switched over.

It's a bitch that I have to get all my history from movies.
so I quote Brad Pitt
[faking Italian with a Southern accent] Bawn gorno.
(Inglourious Basterds)

Someone liberated Australia? That's news to me; as I write, my slave master is whipping me, demanding poems and i am not even into pain....

 

[twelveoone]

I'm earning a living at what I like doing, which is better than being on the treadmill where only suicide, being murdered at the hands of ones lover or some other premature death will free you but fame and fortune still elude me. I've got a mad German woman from Hannover in my life so I couldn't end up as meat parcels in the Bondes Post but she has her compensations, if you know what I mean. I don't know if Hannover breeds mad women but this is my second raving fallopian from that town

well to steal from one of yours

Life's a piece of shit,
When you look at it.
Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true.
You'll see it's all a show,
Keep 'em laughing as you go.
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.

Monty Python

Bondes Post?
Blondest post?
bondage post?

I glad to hear you're doing well, and murdering the German language
I'm doing well with merdering the American language and poetry as well

 

[twelveoone]

Someone liberated Australia? That's news to me; as I write, my slave master is whipping me, demanding poems and i am not even into pain....

isn't that where we got this guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Schwarzenegger
didn't we trade you this guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Gibson
for him?

 

[vrosej10]

isn't that where we got this guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Schwarzenegger
didn't we trade you this guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Gibson
for him?

No the first it from Austria (if he's bugging you, try deporting him). That other looney, you can keep. We REALLY don't want him back.

 

[twelveoone]

No the first it from Austria (if he's bugging you, try deporting him). That other looney, you can keep. We REALLY don't want him back.

God, I feel so dumb
maybe I should watch some more movies just to get the facts strait
can you recommend any?
Do you want to watch them together?
Since I keep failing the citizenship test, they will probably deport me back to Alice Springs


or Vienna

 

[bogusagain]

Bondes Post?
Blondest post?
bondage post?

I glad to hear you're doing well, and murdering the German language
I'm doing well with merdering the American language and poetry as well

Embarrassment I'm getting my Dutch bond and German bundes mixed up.

Still, the charge is true. I am doing my best to murder the German language. I'm on a sort of post Hitler verbal tour, having already spent years destoying the Dutch language.

 

[twelveoone]

Embarrassment I'm getting my Dutch bond and German bundes mixed up.

Still, the charge is true. I am doing my best to murder the German language. I'm on a sort of post Hitler verbal tour, having already spent years destoying the Dutch language.

you mean it wasn't destroyed already?
I like the Dutch, it always sounds like they're clearing their throats. Maybe I should move there= I would sound el-o-quent,
tahhh
Well now that I've offended...they don't have a navy do they?
Russians are after me, they have a navy.
Arrgh
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104204/the-russell-crowe-show

 

[EroticOrogeny]

I guess the similarity of the names in English, Austria vs Australia leads to confusion for many.
My wife is from Austria, and has a bit of an accent. On one occasion she told our waitress that she was from Austria and the waitress commented about kangaroos. Rather than go thru a detailed explanation she just agreed.

 

[bronzeage]

I guess the similarity of the names in English, Austria vs Australia leads to confusion for many.
My wife is from Austria, and has a bit of an accent. On one occasion she told our waitress that she was from Austria and the waitress commented about kangaroos. Rather than go thru a detailed explanation she just agreed.

At least she didn't mention Vienna Sausage.

Merry Christmas.