A Master's 'right' to play with others

[Primalex]

I've often seen people who aren't affectionate or don't like to be touched displaying sociopathic tendencies, and often say things like "My parents weren't affectionate to me." and otherwise.

Is it truly just infancy or is the disconnect between humanity and emotions and themselves fostered through a non-nurturing childhood as well?

This thread is about poly relationships. Please move along.

 

[Netzach]

I'm not in a happy place right now, at least as far as romantic stuff goes.

I wasn't really trying to get across any particularly cogent point. I do think it's worth mentioning that there is another side to this, the pain that Dom's experience as well. I suppose that should make me MORE sympathetic to the pain of a sub, not less.

Truthfully, there's a lot of smart people on this board giving great, constructive advice.

The things that you said about me Satindesire, are very true. I know that sometime in the future there will be happiness for me and I will have learned from my experiences but now I am still in the muck of it.

For what it's worth I didn't find it that alarming.

Maybe I wasn't cuddled enough as a small thing myself, or maybe I just think that if you flag "I'm going to do it for you" it means doing it, or go play head games someplace else. I think it's more the latter. I sat there and thought "damn straight" not "get yourself a blow up doll, asshole."

I would be hesitant to ascribe your problems and unhappiness to a distaste for compromise as a way to approach relationship issues in M/s.

That's not to minimize them, but it is to point out that relating in ways off the bell curve is a need for some people as much as relating on it is for other people. I know that my problems are my problems and they're pretty consistent across relationships because they're mine.

Don't let people strongarm you into going "it's your fucked up relationship style that is preventing your happiness." It might be your fucked up personal inventory of myriad fucked up things when all people see is "meanie." It's your conclusion to draw. I know it's hard for someone who has to check other people to touch behavioral bases to do that, though.

I would again argue against M/s as a good framework for primary romantic relationships for everyone on earth. It's all I see here and I don't get it and never have. For me it's a mandatory secondary way of relating to someone out there.

 

[Marquis]

Something that I've always wondered about sociopaths...is it possible for them to learn compassion and empathy? Can they learn from and benefit from therapy?

I assume they cannot due to a fundamental disconnection between emotions and how to treat people with empathy for them.

Do you have the capability for empathy or are you removed from humanity?

I would say that maybe my empathy is maybe a little lower than average but "removed from humanity" is a bit extreme.

Have you ever been to therapy? Did it help, if you did?

I've been to therapy many times and am actually in therapy now.

Therapy has helped me get through some really tough times and make some really tough decisions. So, in that sense, I think it has helped. I don't think I've ever had a transformation in therapy where I "woke up" and said "I've got to be a different person."

I've often seen people who aren't affectionate or don't like to be touched displaying sociopathic tendencies, and often say things like "My parents weren't affectionate to me." and otherwise.

Is it truly just infancy or is the disconnect between humanity and emotions and themselves fostered through a non-nurturing childhood as well?

I'm actually very affectionate and love human contact.

For what it's worth I didn't find it that alarming.

Maybe I wasn't cuddled enough as a small thing myself, or maybe I just think that if you flag "I'm going to do it for you" it means doing it, or go play head games someplace else. I think it's more the latter. I sat there and thought "damn straight" not "get yourself a blow up doll, asshole."

I would be hesitant to ascribe your problems and unhappiness to a distaste for compromise as a way to approach relationship issues in M/s.

That's not to minimize them, but it is to point out that relating in ways off the bell curve is a need for some people as much as relating on it is for other people. I know that my problems are my problems and they're pretty consistent across relationships because they're mine.

Don't let people strongarm you into going "it's your fucked up relationship style that is preventing your happiness." It might be your fucked up personal inventory of myriad fucked up things when all people see is "meanie." It's your conclusion to draw. I know it's hard for someone who has to check other people to touch behavioral bases to do that, though.

I would again argue against M/s as a good framework for primary romantic relationships for everyone on earth. It's all I see here and I don't get it and never have. For me it's a mandatory secondary way of relating to someone out there.

Thanks for these comments, Netz.

Maybe I wasn't cuddled enough as a small thing myself, or maybe I just think that if you flag "I'm going to do it for you" it means doing it, or go play head games someplace else. I think it's more the latter. I sat there and thought "damn straight" not "get yourself a blow up doll, asshole."

Ironically, someone else who would probably agree with you - my therapist.

When I was first going through my breakup, I would come in and talk in endless circles about what my girl wanted, what she needed. My therapist pointed out that while it was natural to consider one's partner's feelings, part of being in an adult relationship is telling that person what YOU want, and giving them a chance to do the same.

 

[Netzach]

I would say that maybe my empathy is maybe a little lower than average but "removed from humanity" is a bit extreme.



I've been to therapy many times and am actually in therapy now.

Therapy has helped me get through some really tough times and make some really tough decisions. So, in that sense, I think it has helped. I don't think I've ever had a transformation in therapy where I "woke up" and said "I've got to be a different person."



I'm actually very affectionate and love human contact.



Thanks for these comments, Netz.

Maybe I wasn't cuddled enough as a small thing myself, or maybe I just think that if you flag "I'm going to do it for you" it means doing it, or go play head games someplace else. I think it's more the latter. I sat there and thought "damn straight" not "get yourself a blow up doll, asshole."

Ironically, someone else who would probably agree with you - my therapist.

When I was first going through my breakup, I would come in and talk in endless circles about what my girl wanted, what she needed. My therapist pointed out that while it was natural to consider one's partner's feelings, part of being in an adult relationship is telling that person what YOU want, and giving them a chance to do the same.

Uhuh. The big secret wearing its lacy pink panties in the closet is that a lot of us control freaks can be super co-dependent.

 

[ataxia.girl]

He made an "I'll never leave you" commitment after a couple of dates? Come on. How old is this guy, 14?

i don't know what he told her.

He broke it off with her and deleted her off his fetlife friends list.

 

[lissa808]

What happens to you when your mouth gets you in trouble?

Well, I believe I will be taught a lesson from a kind and loving master, and will not repeat my error.

 

[subish2009]

Uhuh. The big secret wearing its lacy pink panties in the closet is that a lot of us control freaks can be super co-dependent.

And isn't this kinda related to what you were saying about not having your primary romantic relationship be M/s? About making it a secondary thing? I mean, I get why people who don't do poly can't do that, but I feel like it's akin to the difference between being 24/7 and keeping the PYL/pyl aspect more limited than that.

I haven't felt a real co-dependent vibe from my husband in the 15 years we've been together. But I DO see that we've tried a sort of 24/7-lyte or facsimile thereof, and it was disastrous for us. He's ADHD and not all that empathetic and very much a man's man, but not one big on social graces or societal expectations. I'm very Type A and perfectionist and anxiety-ridden and empathetic to a fault. We balance each other. Which means there are things I do exceptionally well that are huge weaknesses for him (and vice versa, of course!). We found it IMPOSSIBLE for us to sustain a D/s dynamic 24/7 with that sort of partnership. I couldn't trust him to get shit done the way I needed to in order to stay in that submissive headspace as continuously as he wanted me to. So that's my long-winded way of saying that if he suddenly wanted me to top him, I'd be surprised, but not shocked. He needs me and I've always known it. Just as I need him.

The other D-type in my life, though...this is also a man who loves me, and yet, I WAS shocked...SHOCKED...the first time he told me he needed me. The first time he said that he is just as much MINE as I am HIS....I could hear the truth of it once he said it, but it had never occurred to me until then that he NEEDED me, emotionally. Now, I'm not gonna say he's "super co-dependent"...he's not. But he's much more like what y'all are describing than my husband is. I also think he's a more natural PYL. Or, maybe "more natural" is unfair...he just seems to wear the title with more ease...more confidence...more surety in what he's doing. He's also six years older, which may or may not play a part there. And if HE ever wanted me to top him? I'd be passed out on the floor.

But that co-dependency...I get it. I can totally see that in a PYL. No one fits perfectly into any little box. It took me a long time to get comfortable with the kind of sub I am...willful, mouthy, independent, petulant...but I am as submissive as any sub I know. That's just how I need it to be...I need to resist and be overcome. Fairly frequently. I can see how plenty of PYLs would need (and certainly how they'd have a hard time "copping" to that need) for someone to make THEM suffer for once....Like Marquis said, when you're in a super-romantic, super-intense D/s relationship, I can see wanting the tables turned to reach that next level of trust. I don't feel like I have a switchy bone in my body, but I'm starting to understand how it doesn't make you less PYL to need that switch now and then, even if just with certain partners. I don't think I "got" that at all before now.

ETA: Just realized this is a total mash-up of Marquis' comments from the "Can't Switch" thread and this one...Meh...whatever...props to whomever can make any sense out of a word I said.

 

[ataxia.girl]

The other D-type in my life, though...this is also a man who loves me, and yet, I WAS shocked...SHOCKED...the first time he told me he needed me. The first time he said that he is just as much MINE as I am HIS....I could hear the truth of it once he said it, but it had never occurred to me until then that he NEEDED me, emotionally. Now, I'm not gonna say he's "super co-dependent"...he's not. But he's much more like what y'all are describing than my husband is. I also think he's a more natural PYL. Or, maybe "more natural" is unfair...he just seems to wear the title with more ease...more confidence...more surety in what he's doing. He's also six years older, which may or may not play a part there. And if HE ever wanted me to top him? I'd be passed out on the floor.

my Daddy is a lot like this. He needs me and loves me and is a very natural dominant. There are no protocols or anything he pretty much just does what he wants and this has included other women in the past.

But people make mistakes and the last woman he was with was a mistake. Everything about it was a mistake.

However... just because he made a mistake doesn't mean there aren't going to be other women in the future. There probably will be.