A question of modern language and poetry

[Angeline]

It's kind of what I was thinking. The poet can try, but ultimately, it's the reader that determines if it's poetry.

As for comedy, a lot of what is funny is so because there's some truth or observation of human emotion in it. (Or that could just be my weird sense of humor). Incidentally, I'll be teaching "Twelfth Night" to one of my classes this year. Part of the reason for choosing it was actually all that's there beyond the comedy.

Twelfth Night and As You Like It are probably my two favorite of his comedies. And Twelfth Night especially I think is accessible. If you haven't read much (or any) Shakespeare, it's still funny and charming.

I would imagine it'll be a lot of fun to teach.

 

[twelveoone]

The deception is intrinsic to the something you give them to read. There's no deception in the publishing and hoping they will respond. (Well, there is, but let's say there isn't.) But there is deception in the writing itself. That's the very definition of poetry, of art even. If you're not hiding anything, if you're not tricking your readers into feeling or thinking something, if you're not selling anything, you might as well just give them the actual thing you're supposed to be writing about, or write its technical specifications.

Maybe. Again, it looks more like we are arguing different connotations of the words "clever" and "trick."

Of course, a skilled writer will use whatever techniques at their command to achieve the effect they want. "Clever" seems a poor word to describe that. "Skilled" or "in command of their art" (yeah, phrase, I know) seem more appropriate to me.

And certainly we agree that poets don't sit down explicitly to make "art." What I think is wrong with the visual arts today, actually. The MFA programs seem to teach people to be artists rather than give them the skills to let them go out and make things that might be art. Wrong way around, I think.

Interesting, you two.
I remember using the word "deceptive" to describe a type of poetry, that was well worth reading, but did not quite appear to be regular poetry. It is outside the boundary. And MFA programs teach you very well to trod the same paths over and over again inside that boundary. The product is a sameness.
Just tossin' my doubloon.
And thank you both for an interesting read.