A question.

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

Clicky.

ROFL LMAO

n1 Bunny!

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I think that makes them a pathetic tool.

You want to say that to my Master, you better have your running shoes on or a predilection for dry assrape.

 

[jockdom]

conditioning

every body can be conditioned.

 

[CheekyBoots]

I see your BS detector hasn't stopped working.

Seriously! BiBunny's got it goin ON!

 

[VelvetDarkness]

every body can be conditioned.

Don't think I'll ever quite be conditioned to that one. Wouldn't be any fun if I was.

 

[Harlet_Minx]

You want to say that to my Master, you better have your running shoes on or a predilection for dry assrape.

Remind me never to go jogging with you two....

So if we were to put aside the whole fact this was started to troll about (just stick him back under the GB bridge). Their is an element of topping from the bottom in a lot of the BDSM relationships, or at least I've seen it a lot. I was actually talking about this a couple days ago with a Dom friend to get his perspective, I'll post some of the content.

I had mentioned subs completely focused on making their master happy and doing everything in their power to that end.

"Very perceptive. I consider this behavior a form of topping from the bottom. You exchange control for responsibility, but by focusing on making the dom happy, you're taking back control. I've had this discussion with a number of female subs, and many of them hate the idea that they may only please their dom when he wants to be pleased. I can only explain that being in control is VERY important to the dom, and very much a part of why he's dom. If you take that away, you've diminished his role as a dom -- and you're making him unhappy, not pleasing him, unless he's one of the "down on your knees bitch" wanabee doms."

Now this is hardly indicative of all relationships but I can't count the number of subs I've talked to who feel it's their job to make their master happy. While not directly what was originally talked about I think it's closely related.

So in response to the visiting GBer, no it doesn't mean a Master or Mistress is pathetic, however their's cases where the dominant might probably want to sit back and reevaluate a relationship.

Just some musings. ......and trying to salvage a decent conversation.

 

[intothewoods]

"Very perceptive. I consider this behavior a form of topping from the bottom. You exchange control for responsibility, but by focusing on making the dom happy, you're taking back control. I've had this discussion with a number of female subs, and many of them hate the idea that they may only please their dom when he wants to be pleased. I can only explain that being in control is VERY important to the dom, and very much a part of why he's dom. If you take that away, you've diminished his role as a dom -- and you're making him unhappy, not pleasing him, unless he's one of the "down on your knees bitch" wanabee doms."

Um, I don't get it. If you're focused on making the D happy, you are topping from the bottom? Because you should be more focused on following directions, or what? Not being snarky. I just couldn't follow.


However, the following is snark: I have running shoes on AND a predeliction for dry ass-raping, so what's up now, Velvet's Master? Nyah nyah boo boo, you can't get me! (i'm going to h-e-double hockey sticks!)

 

[Harlet_Minx]

Um, I don't get it. If you're focused on making the D happy, you are topping from the bottom? Because you should be more focused on following directions, or what? Not being snarky. I just couldn't follow.


However, the following is snark: I have running shoes on AND a predeliction for dry ass-raping, so what's up now, Velvet's Master? Nyah nyah boo boo, you can't get me! (i'm going to h-e-double hockey sticks!)

Most likely but that's where all the cool subs go anyways.

Yes we were talking about how we'd noticed a couple of subs in the region who find themselves more interested in making their Dom/me happy as opposed to pleasing them. I mean obviously a Dom/me is rarely going to order his sub to be disobedient but their also times when people are going to be bothered by things or be unhappy and don't necessarily want to be cheered up or possibly the sub is doing unwanted things to try and force their Dom/me to be happy only to get frustrated or worse, get the Dom/me frustrated.

On a side not this also happens quite a bit in vanilla relationships.

 

[00Syd]

Most likely but that's where all the cool subs go anyways.

Yes we were talking about how we'd noticed a couple of subs in the region who find themselves more interested in making their Dom/me happy as opposed to pleasing them. I mean obviously a Dom/me is rarely going to order his sub to be disobedient but their also times when people are going to be bothered by things or be unhappy and don't necessarily want to be cheered up or possibly the sub is doing unwanted things to try and force their Dom/me to be happy only to get frustrated or worse, get the Dom/me frustrated.

On a side not this also happens quite a bit in vanilla relationships.

I still don't get it. What is the difference between making your Dom happy and pleasing them? And why is making them happy topping from the bottom? I'm genuinely confused.

 

[Breaker_Morant]

I still don't get it. What is the difference between making your Dom happy and pleasing them? And why is making them happy topping from the bottom? I'm genuinely confused.

Making him happy is topping from the bottom because you are acting on your own volition - at least that is how I am reading this conversation. According to the "topping from the bottom" crowd, you're supposed to wait until told to do something.

 

[00Syd]

Making him happy is topping from the bottom because you are acting on your own volition - at least that is how I am reading this conversation. According to the "topping from the bottom" crowd, you're supposed to wait until told to do something.

What about if you know what will make him happy so you do it before he can ask you to? That just seems like better service in my eyes.

 

[Breaker_Morant]

What about if you know what will make him happy so you do it before he can ask you to? That just seems like better service in my eyes.

I agree with you. I wasn't saying I agreed with that opinion but I was just telling you how I was reading that line of thinking. Personally anticpating the needs of your PYL, inho, is just that - being a better pyl.

 

[00Syd]

We are in agreement!

 

[intothewoods]

I still don't get it. What is the difference between making your Dom happy and pleasing them? And why is making them happy topping from the bottom? I'm genuinely confused.

To me, it sounds HM is describing people who, in a relationship, think they know better than the other person what will make them happy. So rather than listen to their partner, they just do what they think is best. I kind of think that's not topping from the bottom, but just acting like an asshole.

 

[Harlet_Minx]

I agree with you. I wasn't saying I agreed with that opinion but I was just telling you how I was reading that line of thinking. Personally anticpating the needs of your PYL, inho, is just that - being a better pyl.

Oh I absolutely agree that trying to anticipate needs makes a persona better pyl but I think those that try to make their master be happy at all times top from the bottom or to feel they fail in their duties because they can't make someone always happy. Pleasing at least in this context is serving a person well, and yes that includes anticipating needs. But happiness is just a emotion really. Eh, not entirely sure this explanation makes much sense. It came to mind when I considered situations where you might see toping from the bottom like he originally described.

However, it does take amazing strength to be a sub. Try trusting someone enough to be on the receiving end of a single tail or be willing to give yourself to another.

 

[00Syd]

To me, it sounds HM is describing people who, in a relationship, think they know better than the other person what will make them happy. So rather than listen to their partner, they just do what they think is best. I kind of think that's not topping from the bottom, but just acting like an asshole.

I agree with that.

 

[Homburg]

What about if you know what will make him happy so you do it before he can ask you to? That just seems like better service in my eyes.

That is better service, but some concentrate solely on that whole "Please smile for me" thing. The idea is that transitory emotional indicator indicate success and this is the sole marker of good service. There are times when I am simply not in the mood to smile, nor be cheerful. Those times it is best to just leave me be and quietly do as I say. Attempting to cheer me up may well result in getting your ass chewed off.

Sometimes I just need to brood.

 

[00Syd]

Oh I absolutely agree that trying to anticipate needs makes a persona better pyl but I think those that try to make their master be happy at all times top from the bottom or to feel they fail in their duties because they can't make someone always happy. Pleasing at least in this context is serving a person well, and yes that includes anticipating needs. But happiness is just a emotion really. Eh, not entirely sure this explanation makes much sense. It came to mind when I considered situations where you might see toping from the bottom like he originally described.

However, it does take amazing strength to be a sub. Try trusting someone enough to be on the receiving end of a single tail or be willing to give yourself to another.

Still not sure what you mean. I don't understand how trying to make your Dom happy all the time is topping from the bottom. I mean, if they are trying but feel they are failing in their duties by not making their Dom happy all the time, to me, thats not topping from the bottom, thats just setting your expectations too high. Or over estimating your abilities or something. I know that happiness is an emotion... I'm just really not understanding what you mean. I'm trying! lol

 

[00Syd]

That is better service, but some concentrate solely on that whole "Please smile for me" thing. The idea is that transitory emotional indicator indicate success and this is the sole marker of good service. There are times when I am simply not in the mood to smile, nor be cheerful. Those times it is best to just leave me be and quietly do as I say. Attempting to cheer me up may well result in getting your ass chewed off.

Sometimes I just need to brood.

Oh yeah, that makes sense to me. But thats still not topping from the bottom, its just being unobservant as to what your PYL wants at the moment.

EDIT FOR THOUGHT: I suppose that cooouuullld be topping from the bottom if you get pleasure from seeing your PYL smile or what have you and so thats your only aim, not in actually serving him and doing what the PYL wants.

Huh.

Topping from the bottom, as a concept, is incredibly confusing to me.

 

[Homburg]

Oh yeah, that makes sense to me. But thats still not topping from the bottom, its just being unobservant as to what your PYL wants at the moment.

EDIT FOR THOUGHT: I suppose that cooouuullld be topping from the bottom if you get pleasure from seeing your PYL smile or what have you and so thats your only aim, not in actually serving him and doing what the PYL wants.

Huh.

Topping from the bottom, as a concept, is incredibly confusing to me.

Too many people shout it out too quickly for a variety of often imaginary offenses.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Topping from the bottom, as a concept, is incredibly confusing to me.

Me too, which is why I leave it to Master to decide when my anticipatory service is appreciated/required or not. I suppose it could be TFTB to imagine that I know what's best for him and act unilaterally without asking him first.

In a day to day context, I pay far more attention to Master's mood than anything else. I don't carry a rolled up list around of 'pre agreed service that I may carry out without his express permission' because it changes so much according to how he feels. Some days when he's down he wants attention, food cooked, maybe a massage or to snuggle with me in front of a movie. Other days he wants me to stay the fuck out of sight and everything else becomes moot.

I have no idea to what degree our dynamic fits into the TFTB spectrum of things because I'm very service oriented and would rather perform a task and have him say 'you didn't have to do that' than for him to feel neglected or that I'm some kind of terrified minion without a mind of my own, who he has to directly command if he wants anything done.

Fortunately, he agrees with all this for the most part. He is a man after all, a human being and he understands that, although I might not act as he wishes all the time, I'm always genuinely doing my best and everything is well intentioned.

 

[intothewoods]

Too many people shout it out too quickly for a variety of often imaginary offenses.

I agree.

I'm just a person, not sammy and I'm not topping from the bottom because someone who's not my partner says so. Both of those phrases are like nails on a chalkboard to me.

My PYL isn't even familiar with those expressions because he doesn't frequent bdsm message boards or kink groups (except the one I introduced him to). If I annoy him or piss him off in some way, or he feels his needs aren't being met, he just tells me. In his own words. He doesn't have to wave a sceptor and pronounce me "topping from the bottom."

 

[IsabellaKing]

I keep hearing that subs become subs because they have the power to decide to give themselves to another.
Wouldn't that mean that they are the doms and are really manipulating those that think they have power over them?

I think that just makes her a tart

 

[00Syd]

I agree.

I'm just a person, not sammy and I'm not topping from the bottom because someone who's not my partner says so. Both of those phrases are like nails on a chalkboard to me.

My PYL isn't even familiar with those expressions because he doesn't frequent bdsm message boards or kink groups (except the one I introduced him to). If I annoy him or piss him off in some way, or he feels his needs aren't being met, he just tells me. In his own words. He doesn't have to wave a sceptor and pronounce me "topping from the bottom."

Thats how I feel about it, too. It had never occurred to me as something that I could do until I started hanging around here, and now I know I'll probably be constantly wondering whether or not I'm doing it instead of just enjoying myself.

 

[BiBunny]

Thats how I feel about it, too. It had never occurred to me as something that I could do until I started hanging around here, and now I know I'll probably be constantly wondering whether or not I'm doing it instead of just enjoying myself.

Girl, just enjoy yourself and don't worry about what a bunch of fucktards on an Internet forum think (and that includes me, too). People spend way too much time over-analyzing and talking about "this is submissive and this isn't" and not nearly enough time just doing what they do and enjoying it. And, too, I've noticed that the people who are always the quickest to stand up and holler "Topping from the bottom!" are usually the ones whose kink experiences consist solely of telling ol' so-and-so in the chat room to smack her own ass with a hairbrush.