A woman and a man and power?

So, the question is and the point of this thread is, If a woman dominates a man does submitting to it make the man less than a man, and if a woman who weilds power over a man does she have to be an utter bitch in order to keep it.

I was addressing this above question in a general sense.

Nowhere whatsoever in my response did I reference rape or kidnap victims. Neither of those involve submission in any form, their aggressor simply takes what he wants without thought for his victim. *Shudders* I would never equate either with the BDSM Lifestyle my goodness why would I even think of such a coircumsatance in response to Veroe's question.


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With regards the picture Britwitch, Veroe pretty much answered your question for me bless his heart.

In any event no matter who he is, submissive, dominant , someones husband with no knowledge of BDSM, in that single moment in time he is in fact submitting to the woman holding the ice cub against his Adams apple.

The picture evoked a very definite response in me which is why I knew it would be perfect for Veroe :rose:
 
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.I'm sorry Yeishia but it sounds to me like you're actually calling a rape victim or kidnap victim; a wimp?!
Do you want to rephrase or clarify?

I define both as someone 'forced to submit'.

Hmm...I can see your logic, Minx, but I must disagree. Submission is a choice, so there can be no such thing as "forced to submit" there can only be "unable to prevent it happening to you" in such a circumstance.

I think the submission Yeisha was referring to is an act of free will. Certainly the submissive can feel cornered by the dom, coerced into facing the choice of submitting to him or her, but in the end the only one who can decide to submit to another is the submissive him or herself otherwise its back to "unable to prevent" the dom from forcing him or herself upon the submissive.

And I do think there are circumstances where this definition of submission may be put into a grey area, but fortunately I don't mind living without absolutes here. In fact the fact that it isn't absolute I find endlessly fascinating.
 
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Okay, it's a good thing Grant posted cause my brain is a bit mush after 12 hours at work beneath the sun and by the time I got halfway through Yeishia's, I think I had a total meltdown!

Sorry Veroe, it was just black fuzz to me :eek:

Anyways, sorry, been tired the last few days and I think my brain took what she wrote to an entirely literal level.

My apologies Yeishia. :rose:

In any case, if you meant that taking the pain and actually being truly subservient (and enjoying it, obviously) are two different things in that sense of submission then yeah, I agree but I wouldn't call someone merely taking the pain; a submissive.

As for the original question; no and no.

It doesn't make him 'less of a man' if he wants to submit, it actually makes him more of a man for making a choice. Personally, I'm not attracted to submissive males, being a submissive myself, dominants are, well, my taste. Then again, I hardly need to say it, you've all seen my taste ;)

As for a woman, she never needs to be an utter bitch to gain any power in the first place. As a matter of fact, it generally works against you where proud men are concerned. Even submissive males will be irked by such an approach (at least at first). I'm the same at work or at play, just being pleasant and funny and normal when I talk to people works wonders. I know that BDSM makes us different in the bedroom to the 'general populous' but it doesn't make us different anywhere else so why do people assume we have to go through very different dating rituals to others?

I can do it just the same as any 'vanilla' person would and feel them out, if I like then I take and if I don't, I take it back.

I am extremely tired and quite possibly rambling because I can't see straight so I'm gonna stop now but I hope that all made some kind of sense...(unless someone else said the same thing before, in which case - ignore me please!)
 
If I failed to draw the distinction between unhealthy BDSM and healthy BDSM, I apologize. My post was in reply to the concept of "utter submission".

You may practice healthy BDSM for all I know.

But the fact you acknowledge there is unhealthy visions of BDSM only proves my point.

Is it exclusive to the BDSM community? No.

There are plenty of unhealthy people who don't come near BDSM and engage in awful relationships. It's not unique to any one community.

Again, if it sounded like I was saying otherwise, my apologies.

What I objected to is your assertion that any form of power exchange dynamic that extends beyond the bedroom is inherently unhealthy and born of psychological illness in both parties.

Utter submission is something you really shouldn't knock, since you have no intention of trying it. Neither is healthy submission an act of selfish irresponsibility, just as healthy dominance is not an assertion of mistrust and insecurity. Your comments were inflammatory and I found the tone offensive.
 
What I objected to is your assertion that any form of power exchange dynamic that extends beyond the bedroom is inherently unhealthy and born of psychological illness in both parties.

Utter submission is something you really shouldn't knock, since you have no intention of trying it. Neither is healthy submission an act of selfish irresponsibility, just as healthy dominance is not an assertion of mistrust and insecurity. Your comments were inflammatory and I found the tone offensive.

Submitting your decision making process entirely to another person in a way that directly impacts, or controls, your well-being is not healthy.

My failure was in my inability to clearly differentiate the behavior I found unhealthy with the many others that can be. There's a difference. You don't have to agree, and I doubt you will agree, with my perception but I certainly owe you an apology for not being more specific.
 
Submitting your decision making process entirely to another person in a way that directly impacts, or controls, your well-being is not healthy.

My failure was in my inability to clearly differentiate the behavior I found unhealthy with the many others that can be. There's a difference. You don't have to agree, and I doubt you will agree, with my perception but I certainly owe you an apology for not being more specific.

I guess that's as much of a truce as we'll reach here. Thankyou for responding more moderately.
 
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