about voting and views

[cantdog]

I still doubt the pervasive nature of the Bomber Trolls. Everyone-- everyone! Think of it! Thousands of people!-- whose story goes beyond 10 votes and has the red H gets one-bombed.

I think that the public at large, given five numbers to choose from, is going to use all five of them. And I think that stories with the H get read preferentially by these same people.

I therefore feel sure that a lot of the effect, presently mythologized into the Troll Gangs, is just the combination of these two simple facts.

Sure, there are also deliberate spoiler votes cast. But not that many. Not everyone.

cantdog

 

[Boxlicker101]

I still doubt the pervasive nature of the Bomber Trolls. Everyone-- everyone! Think of it! Thousands of people!-- whose story goes beyond 10 votes and has the red H gets one-bombed.

I think that the public at large, given five numbers to choose from, is going to use all five of them. And I think that stories with the H get read preferentially by these same people.

I therefore feel sure that a lot of the effect, presently mythologized into the Troll Gangs, is just the combination of these two simple facts.

Sure, there are also deliberate spoiler votes cast. But not that many. Not everyone.

cantdog

I would never claim that all stories that rate a red H get one-bombed. What does frequently happen though, is that a story will make a strong showing in early voting and be ranked at the top of its category and somebody will come along and one-bomb it. I have a lesbian story that posted on June 28 which was a Monday. Votes trickled in and I was able to log them and the first 14 included two votes of four and 12 votes of five. The story was at the top of the lesbian category and somebody knocked it off with a one-bomb. It went from 4.86 to 4.60. It might have been somebody expressing an honest opinion but I doubt that any individual would be so different from everybody else. It may have been somebody who doesn't like stories about lesbians, but such a person would probably be considered a troll. It may have been somebody who saw it had a high ranking and voted to reduce it. Anyhow, it has 25 votes now and is staying at 4.60.

On the other hand, if I post an E/C story and the first ten votes are divided between fours and fives, the ranking of 4.50 will nerit the red H but will not attract the attention of trolls. None of my stories that have been ranked like that have gotten 1-bombs except those entered in contests.

 

[cantdog]

I can see that. You can write, Box; that was very persuasive!

(Tried to reply several times earlier this morning, and got a data error. Hope this works!)

 

[Shallkneel4u]

On the other hand, if I post an E/C story and the first ten votes are divided between fours and fives, the ranking of 4.50 will nerit the red H but will not attract the attention of trolls. None of my stories that have been ranked like that have gotten 1-bombs except those entered in contests.

I am sure there are trolls who one bomb. However, what about the reverse situations where friends of writers run up to their friends latest postings and give them a 5 just because she's cute, or he has a nice smile. Or maybe a writer who knows a lot of people here contacts them privately when they think they have a shot at winning and gets them to rush in for a quick vote to push them over the top....are they any less trolls?

 

[Teenage Venus]

I am sure there are trolls who one bomb. However, what about the reverse situations where friends of writers run up to their friends latest postings and give them a 5 just because she's cute, or he has a nice smile. Or maybe a writer who knows a lot of people here contacts them privately when they think they have a shot at winning and gets them to rush in for a quick vote to push them over the top....are they any less trolls?

I think this helps my point of view regarding the wisdom of having any voting or star rating system allowing anonymous voting. If all have to 'show their face', it isn't long before regulars can see who is playing at what. The rating then becomes more realistic.

Removing the top and bottom two ratings of each 10 posted usually produces a fairer result too. But it's there, so you use it or ignore it as you wish. As an author you know which are most likely honest votes, anyway, so that helps.

 

[Lying Eyes]

I am sure there are trolls who one bomb. However, what about the reverse situations where friends of writers run up to their friends latest postings and give them a 5 just because she's cute, or he has a nice smile. Or maybe a writer who knows a lot of people here contacts them privately when they think they have a shot at winning and gets them to rush in for a quick vote to push them over the top....are they any less trolls?

Your right, say you change your screen name to "BustyBiBabe" put up a avatar of a photo of a sexy girl pic and start flirting with forum members then submit a new story, it will certainly affect the voting in a postive way and more feedback also even if the actual stories are very basic slut fuck stories.

I remember some new girl to literotica who had a sexy name posted on this forum and requested feedback. It was a simple story but it had a few nice creative touches that showed she had some real potential. I sent her some feedback pointing out the parts that I found well written and gave her some advice and sugestions to help her improve. When she responded to my feedback she was actualy relieved to recieve my feedback since to her it seemed all her previous feedback was just empty praise from readers who seemed more intrested in her then what she had written.

But thats not to say that some of the regular more friendly forum members don't deserve the 5 votes and positive feedback. Some of the regular writers that pop often in the forums are very good writers with the talent of published authors.

 

[Shallkneel4u]

But thats not to say that some of the regular more friendly forum members don't deserve the 5 votes and positive feedback. Some of the regular writers that pop often in the forums are very good writers with the talent of published authors.

Hi There Lying:

I've read several 100 of the stories posted here, and some are VERY well written, and deserving of their scores, so I have no doubt that you are correct in your above statement. On the reverse side of the coin though, I have seen a lot of poorly written, highly scored works on here, and it becomes obvious to see they are being scored on their popularity here in the forum rather than on any particular gift towards the written word.

Shall

 

[cantdog]

Many times, a superbly written story will be low-4's, while a mediocre and repetitive story with a very hot story line, something that grabs people by the fantasy bump, will be high.

It's been proposed to have a writing score and a "Hot sex" score, because of this, but it would make more sense to blow off voting altogether, I think.

 

[Lying Eyes]

It's been proposed to have a writing score and a "Hot sex" score, because of this, but it would make more sense to blow off voting altogether, I think.

In theory this is a really good idea, having the voting devided in lets say sex, plot, characters, grammar and overall vote. Then a writer can see what was the real problem or strong point in the story. But in practice who knows if it would work well, it would probably lead to alot of people not voting at all while the 1 vote troll bombers get more control since they have no problem giving 1's in all categories.

 

[eric shawn listo]

So what's the answer?

Since this thread I have posted three new stories. The initial voting response though slower has been more posititive. But no feedback on any of them! Can someone give too much info on their member page that influences a vote?

I see so many authors who give nothing that prosper as much as authors who give pics/stats/everything.

What works for a guy who just wants t get it read?

esl

 

[Shallkneel4u]

In theory this is a really good idea, having the voting devided in lets say sex, plot, characters, grammar and overall vote. Then a writer can see what was the real problem or strong point in the story. But in practice who knows if it would work well, it would probably lead to alot of people not voting at all while the 1 vote troll bombers get more control since they have no problem giving 1's in all categories.

Really not sure the voting is all the indicative of ones ability, or a true reflection of ones talents, or lack thereof. In my short time here I have noticed certain trends, or at least I purceive them as trends:

1. Certain categories get a LOT more traffic than others. I currently have three stories, each in a different interest category. My D/s story has the slowest amount of interest or traffic, my gay male story is in second, but my interacial story is clearly at the top of the traffic list by a considerable margin.

2. Using the interacial story as a measuring post, out of over 35,000 views, the story has less than one hundred votes. Too late in the evening to do the math, but obviously less than one percent of those who have read the work have bothered to vote on it. It is much the same with my other two contributions, which makes me believe that there is little knowledge to be gleaned about my writing ability based upon the voting tallies and their averages.

3. Comments drop off even more significantly, which means most people simply are not going to take the time to give any constructive criticism good or bad.

4. Then of course, you have the bombers which I have today been a victim of. Goes to show me that it does not pay to take an unpopular stand on the boards if you are at all concerned about your ratings, but then how important are the ratings if less than one percent of those reading your work are bothering to vote?

Perhaps the best approach would be to simply eliminate voting except when certain pieces have been submitted to a panel of judges for the various contests held here...this would eliminate the popularity quotent that plays such an important part in who currently wins contests, and instead would see the various works judge purely on the quality of the work without personalities playing a part in it all.

 

[cantdog]

You can always disallow voting when you submit, or any time at all. Snooper does that because of a conviction that there is little to be learned from votes.

I did a story in the incest category, on a request from a feedback note. Lively section, lots of votes. The sex encounter begins with coercion of the daughter, which is what the note writer wanted; he was sick of all the slutty kids. I got very negative votes and also very positive ones, with feedback in both cases, sometimes. It depended on how they felt about the coercion.

So it's low rated, but the votes are split. That tells me jack about how well I wrote or what I might do to better it.

Lesbian sex gets the most votes, but the less than one percent of views is consistent with everyone else's findings. They give a lot of feedback in Lesbian Sex, too.

But snooper has a point. What does the vote say? Some people tell you the condoms were off-putting, or conversely that the lack of condoms was off-putting, and I suppose some people vote according to a mechanical standard like that.

I don't get too worried, but an H does make people read you more.

 

[Boxlicker101]

You can always disallow voting when you submit, or any time at all. Snooper does that because of a conviction that there is little to be learned from votes.

I did a story in the incest category, on a request from a feedback note. Lively section, lots of votes. The sex encounter begins with coercion of the daughter, which is what the note writer wanted; he was sick of all the slutty kids. I got very negative votes and also very positive ones, with feedback in both cases, sometimes. It depended on how they felt about the coercion.

So it's low rated, but the votes are split. That tells me jack about how well I wrote or what I might do to better it.

Lesbian sex gets the most votes, but the less than one percent of views is consistent with everyone else's findings. They give a lot of feedback in Lesbian Sex, too.

But snooper has a point. What does the vote say? Some people tell you the condoms were off-putting, or conversely that the lack of condoms was off-putting, and I suppose some people vote according to a mechanical standard like that.

I don't get too worried, but an H does make people read you more.

There's another factor that governs the readers and votes, timing. I posted a threesome lesbian sex story on June 28, a Monday and it now has 8,806 views and 25 votes averaging 4.60. Nothing to be ashamed of but nothing special either. I have an incest story that posted on July 1, a Thursday and has 24,701 views and 52 votes, averaging 4.42. The difference is that the incest story was in the new list on a Friday and Saturday while the lesbian story was there during the week.

I think inest stories actually outdraw lesbian stories anyhow, and anal stories do quite well also.

 

[Teenage Venus]

It's been proposed to have a writing score and a "Hot sex" score, because of this, but it would make more sense to blow off voting altogether, I think.

'Blowing' it seems good to me.
Okay, the option is there to turn off voting, however, I've certainly found on sites I've been on longer, that using this option on a submission almost always results in a huge drop in 'hits', and anyone reading it.
I certainly tried this on one welknown site, and published the same story under two different titles. Guess which got most reads! (I think the titles had minimum impact on the result.)

Anyone honestly believe the rating reflect the true value of a submission? Or have any REAL value in helping the author?

 

[eric shawn listo]

The votes are needed, aren't they? From hits you can't tell if anyone read the whole story. They may just click on read a sentence or two and decide it's not for them. At least you can assume if they vote that they read the story. I imagine bombers don't read anything.

esl

 

[curious2c]

Views and votes. I used to be quite concerned with both. Then, after posting stories around a bit I discovered that certain stories will do well, as long as one has the grammar and spelling pretty straight and a fairly good plot. Mostly it depends on where one places their story. The catagory will make a huge difference just because some people will only look in a few cataogries and when running down the new story list, just search out those in the catagory they like, skipping all the rest.

Votes tend to run about 1.5 percent of views, and in very few cases does that ever change. If you have a story in a contest, you will get a higher percentage of votes. Otherwise the percentage stays about the same.

Over time a story will get high view numbers just because people begin to search out stories and then reading those that come up in that search. Just because a story is off the new story list doesn't mean the views quit coming. The voting in these cases tends to remain the same.

I have gotten feedback and public comments on my stories. I have only to say that the public feedback has tended to bring the e-mailed feedback to a trickle. I think that in some cases people will see a public comment and feel that since someone has commented to the writer, they don't have to. I am going to test that theory out one day soon by posting a story and not allowing public comments, then see what kind of feedback via e-mail I get.

I have also learned that many will read your story...and for whatever reason, not like it. It isn't you as much as they didn't like where the story went, or how it ended mostly. Problem is, some of those people will attack the writer. Not sure why sometimes, but I have had it happen to me. Comes with the territory.

Don't let views, votes or feedback keep you from writing though. One good vote, one good feedback can carry me over a whole lot of negativity.

Write on!

 

[Boxlicker101]

Views and votes. I used to be quite concerned with both. Then, after posting stories around a bit I discovered that certain stories will do well, as long as one has the grammar and spelling pretty straight and a fairly good plot. Mostly it depends on where one places their story. The catagory will make a huge difference just because some people will only look in a few cataogries and when running down the new story list, just search out those in the catagory they like, skipping all the rest.

Votes tend to run about 1.5 percent of views, and in very few cases does that ever change. If you have a story in a contest, you will get a higher percentage of votes. Otherwise the percentage stays about the same.

Over time a story will get high view numbers just because people begin to search out stories and then reading those that come up in that search. Just because a story is off the new story list doesn't mean the views quit coming. The voting in these cases tends to remain the same.

I have gotten feedback and public comments on my stories. I have only to say that the public feedback has tended to bring the e-mailed feedback to a trickle. I think that in some cases people will see a public comment and feel that since someone has commented to the writer, they don't have to. I am going to test that theory out one day soon by posting a story and not allowing public comments, then see what kind of feedback via e-mail I get.

I have also learned that many will read your story...and for whatever reason, not like it. It isn't you as much as they didn't like where the story went, or how it ended mostly. Problem is, some of those people will attack the writer. Not sure why sometimes, but I have had it happen to me. Comes with the territory.

Don't let views, votes or feedback keep you from writing though. One good vote, one good feedback can carry me over a whole lot of negativity.

Write on!

Although Curious has been here a lot longet than I have, I will still disagree with some of what he says. Category makes a big difference. There are tens of thousands of stories here and nobody can read them all so people come here and read stories, either new or old, in categories they like, frequently watching for stories by writers they know and like. Incest tends to rate the highest in number of views and anal, non-consent and lesbian are also popular. I said "views" not "reads" because sometimes people will just glance at a story and decide not to read beyond the first paragraph.

Grammar and spelling are important. If I start to read a story and keep running into bad spelling and grammar, I will stop reading and vote a two or three and leave either a PC or send an email telling the author about it. Plot is important for novellas or romances but not at all for stroke stories like I usually write. Mostly, the "plot" for a story I write would be something like "I went to see Susan and ate her pussy and fucked her."

The percentage of votes runs a lot lower than 1.5% for me. I have started keeping track and have had 1,151,447 views the last time I checked and 2,716 votes. That is an average of .2359%. I like to think that is because people start to read a story and get hard or wet and wank or frig until they get off and never finish the story and don't vote. At least, that's what I like to think.

Since the PC idea started this year, I get more total feedback but less email. I think the reason for the greater amount of feedback is that I actually solicit it in a paragraph I add at the end of all stories. I also get a lot more votes doing that so I would recommend it for everyone who is interested in knowing what people thing of their stories.

A disproportionate amount of the views and votes and feedback comes when a story is on the NEW list. I might have 20,000 views and 50 votes in the first week, and then about the same amount of both in the next year.

To me, feedback is more important than votes and I really like to get it. Like everybody, I like compliments and I also like constructive criticism. My favorite kind would be something like: "I read your story about Susan and it was so hot that I was wet after the second paragraph. My fingers were on my clit by the time I was halfway through and I got off at the same time she did. Thinking about it again is making me wet so I think I'll go get my vibrator." Something like that will keep me writing for the next week.

 

[eric shawn listo]

Do people think you can't vote anonymously? I mean people still don't trust this. Do people think they can't vote if their not a "member"?

I know--who knows!?

esl

PS just worling on a puzzle. kind of like making each sex scene different form the last.

 

[eric shawn listo]

Sorry, clicked the submit button before I should. All corrections to spelling unnecessary.

 

[Lying Eyes]

Thinking about it, I don't think voting matters other than it shows someone actually read your story (though not the 1 voters) especialy if those readers don't want to give feedback, but of course feedback is infinitely better. And high votes matter because you could attain that magic red H. The H for "hot" is important not because it proves your work is worthy (I've red some crappy "hot" stories) but it make more readers likly to give your story a chance and read it.

 

[miss_honeypot]

I honestly don't know what all the huh-bub is about. I've been 1-bombed with the second chapter of my story, and believe it or not, 5-bombed with the first. Eventually the people running the site get around to clearing all that up and your story is reinstated to its proper average of votes (in my case, one was shot down and the other was raised higher).

Also, I have a huge problem with people being able to vote for their own stories. People do, and i just think it's as tacky as you can get. Even if it meant the difference of winning a monthly contest, I wouldn't do it.

 

[vargas111]

One Bomb

I ge lots of 1's attached to anonymous feedback (which I do not understand since my profile says no anonymous feedback) and it's always becasue the story isn't nice in the PC sense. I don't understand people who read porn and then get moralistic about the content.

 

[Teenage Venus]

Also, I have a huge problem with people being able to vote for their own stories. People do, and i just think it's as tacky as you can get. Even if it meant the difference of winning a monthly contest, I wouldn't do it.

This, of course makes even more a mockery of the system. It was the first thing I tried when assessing the value of the system on here. (I gave myself two 3's. I honestly don't know if it pushed that up or down, as I never check vote-rating now.)

As for votes making a 'magical 'H'. I guess ANYONE conceited enough could attain that in short time. If comments were used as a criteria it would make more sense to me.

I still maintain that by and large, a vote without a comment is meaningless, except to those that want more than maybe a true reflection of their writing prowess.

My writing isn't good. Votes don't help me. Constructive comments do.

Thanks you guys that take time to be helpful

 

[cloudy]

This, of course makes even more a mockery of the system. It was the first thing I tried when assessing the value of the system on here. (I gave myself two 3's. I honestly don't know if it pushed that up or down, as I never check vote-rating now.)

As for votes making a 'magical 'H'. I guess ANYONE conceited enough could attain that in short time. If comments were used as a criteria it would make more sense to me.

I still maintain that by and large, a vote without a comment is meaningless, except to those that want more than maybe a true reflection of their writing prowess.

My writing isn't good. Votes don't help me. Constructive comments do.

Thanks you guys that take time to be helpful

If you vote twice on your own story, one of them will be deleted when Laurel does her sweeps - just like when anyone else votes twice on a story.

 

[Teenage Venus]

If you vote twice on your own story, one of them will be deleted when Laurel does her sweeps - just like when anyone else votes twice on a story.

Wow! One of mine might have gone up then, lol.

Be better if she used the 'can't vote for your own,' option (in my opinion). It may save extra work, 'cos she has a fair workload already.

It's a matter of if you give credence to votes with present criteria, or not. Some do, some don't. It would save a lot of threadspace if some of those that did, didn't moan so much. And if those that don't (like me) - didn't have cause to query their value.

We are stuck with them, so it gives us something to yap about. It tends to get reasonable responses, which must jar the trolls.