America's not what she used to be.
- Thread starter Randyrandy
- Start date
Isabella Thorne
Saucy Ambassador of Tarty Foreign Affairs
- Joined
- May 5, 2000
- Posts
- 3,084
I'm beginning to sound like your Mommy
boys .. boys .. Jeff what you said bout Brits was mean and cruel .. I didn't know you could be that mean .. all cause of a Springer joke .. please .. you must think springer's a joke too .. and also btw looks to me like you apologized to the wrong person .. you don't want me to take you over my knee and spank you now do you?
and lasher .. hon .. that was kinda sarcastic after Jeff already smiled at you after you poked fun at him
now shake hands
boys .. boys .. Jeff what you said bout Brits was mean and cruel .. I didn't know you could be that mean .. all cause of a Springer joke .. please .. you must think springer's a joke too .. and also btw looks to me like you apologized to the wrong person .. you don't want me to take you over my knee and spank you now do you?
and lasher .. hon .. that was kinda sarcastic after Jeff already smiled at you after you poked fun at him
now shake hands
Kinda??.....KINDA????........
and lasher .. hon .. that was kinda sarcastic
Hehehe... It was meant to be completely sarcastic, Isabella. I don't believe in doing things half way!!!
And Jeff, buddy, I can't make you feel stupid - only YOU can make YOU feel stupid. If you've got your own insecurities to deal with, there's not a damn thing I can do about that.
As always, just trying to be helpful. Hehehehe.....
and lasher .. hon .. that was kinda sarcastic
Hehehe... It was meant to be completely sarcastic, Isabella. I don't believe in doing things half way!!!
And Jeff, buddy, I can't make you feel stupid - only YOU can make YOU feel stupid. If you've got your own insecurities to deal with, there's not a damn thing I can do about that.
As always, just trying to be helpful. Hehehehe.....
Isabella Thorne
Saucy Ambassador of Tarty Foreign Affairs
- Joined
- May 5, 2000
- Posts
- 3,084
mammia mia here i go again ..
sorry Lasher .. I really don't want to be anybody's mommy .. i really, really don't ... in fact i am the one usually getting the spankings .. never giving them ... LMAO .. but when you see men behaving like boys .. well ...
sorry Lasher .. I really don't want to be anybody's mommy .. i really, really don't ... in fact i am the one usually getting the spankings .. never giving them ... LMAO .. but when you see men behaving like boys .. well ...
Randyrandy
Experienced
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2000
- Posts
- 48
When I started this thread I had hoped that I could stir the minds of many here. I had hoped that some would stop and think what this country has become and what it stands for today. I may have just done some of that, but I don't see the response that I had in mind. Have we lost our true meaning of freedom? Are we truly free in this country? Can we truly own things without encumberances? Are we truly a citizen or just a subject? Are we free to choose what we want or will the leaders dictate what we do. Is our government working for us or is it working for itself? Is it taboo to have an original thought anymore? Was it in our best interest for the government to try and crush a company like Microsoft? What if it were you and I in Bill Gates shoes? Do we has free enterprise or is it all government controlled "free enterprise"? Oh yes the last one, Are the thought police far behind. People please think a while and tell me what you see. I've traveled all of the lower 48 states this year and see a change from past years.Are any of you seeing changes that effect your life and the way you make a living? Has some part of your life become regulated to the point that you can no longer do or enjoy it now?
Fallen Angel
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Nov 22, 1999
- Posts
- 350
I find that it is very rapidly becoming more of a world thing than a country thing. I love living where I live and though it is not a rose garden it has a damn fine window of opportunity for most everyone. I think that a lot of what we see today in the way of morals? is just a reflection of the overwhelming sense that each of us is just a tiny speck in a sea of humanity. This leads to the feeling that we can screw over someone and not worry about it because we may never even see them again. We as adults tend to let this showup in our business dealings but the youth have it showup more so in their social dealings with others. When we as a large mobile society no longer stay in the same group of people for any extended periods of time the idea of caring about others opinions of us fades to a minor factor in determining our actions.
There is still one frontier and it is the oceans. Lots of room, adventure, danger, and fortunes to be made.
I personally would have loved to been here sometime between the American Revelotion and the Civil War. Long before I reached 40 I would have probably have died of an infected scratch, the flu, an Indian arrow, or a thousand other little things. It still would have been worth it to see the herds of buffalo and trap beaver in the mountains of the west. Look out over the oceans of grass and paddle a canoe back down the rivers till you came to one of the outposts along the Mississippi. Trade in your furs(if you lived through the journey) buy a lot of whiskey and a few supplies and head back to see if you could find that squaw you left before the winter snows set in.
There is still one frontier and it is the oceans. Lots of room, adventure, danger, and fortunes to be made.
I personally would have loved to been here sometime between the American Revelotion and the Civil War. Long before I reached 40 I would have probably have died of an infected scratch, the flu, an Indian arrow, or a thousand other little things. It still would have been worth it to see the herds of buffalo and trap beaver in the mountains of the west. Look out over the oceans of grass and paddle a canoe back down the rivers till you came to one of the outposts along the Mississippi. Trade in your furs(if you lived through the journey) buy a lot of whiskey and a few supplies and head back to see if you could find that squaw you left before the winter snows set in.
Laurel
Kitty Mama
- Joined
- Aug 27, 1999
- Posts
- 20,689
Was it in our best interest for the government to try and crush a company like Microsoft? What if it were you and I in Bill Gates shoes?
I wouldn't be in Bill Gates' shoes, because I don't break the law. Was it all right for Microsoft to use illegal and unethical means to put dozens of smaller companies out of business? "Freedom" does not mean freedom to act criminally and engage in questionable activities to get ahead.
The Microsoft issue is much more complex than Big Bad Government beating up on poor little Bill Gates. For years before the government stepped in, many companies like Sun Microsystems and Netscape spoke out against Microsoft's criminal practices, and many companies paid the price. Go back and read the transcripts from the trial, then tell me that poor Bill didn't knowingly act illegally at worst and immorally at best to shut down his competitors.
Anything that hinders competition is unhealthy - competition is what motivates improvements and keeps prices low. We as consumers pay the price when corporations monopolize any industry. Who knows what innovations might have taken place without Microsoft's actions?
I wouldn't be in Bill Gates' shoes, because I don't break the law. Was it all right for Microsoft to use illegal and unethical means to put dozens of smaller companies out of business? "Freedom" does not mean freedom to act criminally and engage in questionable activities to get ahead.
The Microsoft issue is much more complex than Big Bad Government beating up on poor little Bill Gates. For years before the government stepped in, many companies like Sun Microsystems and Netscape spoke out against Microsoft's criminal practices, and many companies paid the price. Go back and read the transcripts from the trial, then tell me that poor Bill didn't knowingly act illegally at worst and immorally at best to shut down his competitors.
Anything that hinders competition is unhealthy - competition is what motivates improvements and keeps prices low. We as consumers pay the price when corporations monopolize any industry. Who knows what innovations might have taken place without Microsoft's actions?
Laurel
Kitty Mama
- Joined
- Aug 27, 1999
- Posts
- 20,689
Do we has free enterprise or is it all government controlled "free enterprise"?
It's government-regulated free enterprise, and always has been. Do you really want monopolies controlling every industry? Do you really think that corporations have the consumers' best interests at heart? Why is it that everyone agrees that there should be laws governing the actions of private citizens, but then some get all bent out of shape when corporations have to obey laws as well? Without government regulation, 12-year-old children would still work 15 hours a day in factories for $5 a week. The 40-hour work week, minimum wage, labor unions, child labor laws - all are the result of government intervention, and all were made necessary because private industry was abusing its power, and its employees.
It's government-regulated free enterprise, and always has been. Do you really want monopolies controlling every industry? Do you really think that corporations have the consumers' best interests at heart? Why is it that everyone agrees that there should be laws governing the actions of private citizens, but then some get all bent out of shape when corporations have to obey laws as well? Without government regulation, 12-year-old children would still work 15 hours a day in factories for $5 a week. The 40-hour work week, minimum wage, labor unions, child labor laws - all are the result of government intervention, and all were made necessary because private industry was abusing its power, and its employees.
CreamyLady
Uncompromising Visionary
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2000
- Posts
- 2,685
I said it on another thread -- if one has to rely on others for any part of their sustenance -- food, shelter, clothing or defense -- than true freedom is gone. At that point, negotiation and compromise take over. In a cooperative sense, that is government.
I am free to think what I please. I am free to write what I please. I am not necessarily free to say what I please, if it causes harm, or is seditious. I can make choices about my destiny.
No, I do not have perfect freedom. I must pay my share of the costs of defense. I must vote for representation, and pay my share of it. I must be vigilant, that my representatives do no action in my name that I, personally, object to. They will, but I must be vigilant anyway.
However, I'd far rather live here than in, say, Bosnia (or fill in the current hot spot). I'd rather not have to have U.N. peacekeepers escort me across the street.
No, it isn't perfect, but perfection is hubris anyway. The fight is the victory, as someone said, but I'm too full of chardonnay to remember who. Keep working to make it better, and it will be -- and then, someday, perfection might be possible.
I am free to think what I please. I am free to write what I please. I am not necessarily free to say what I please, if it causes harm, or is seditious. I can make choices about my destiny.
No, I do not have perfect freedom. I must pay my share of the costs of defense. I must vote for representation, and pay my share of it. I must be vigilant, that my representatives do no action in my name that I, personally, object to. They will, but I must be vigilant anyway.
However, I'd far rather live here than in, say, Bosnia (or fill in the current hot spot). I'd rather not have to have U.N. peacekeepers escort me across the street.
No, it isn't perfect, but perfection is hubris anyway. The fight is the victory, as someone said, but I'm too full of chardonnay to remember who. Keep working to make it better, and it will be -- and then, someday, perfection might be possible.
I feel the same way as you do Creamy. Very well put.
Only problem is people have so vastly different opinions on what perfection is. That makes it practically impossible because everyone has such different opinions of perfection. And any attempts to find a utopia according to one set of standards will always make another group of people angry, and then the problems will be worse.
Scary to think, but I think we are doing fine as we are for the most part.
Only problem is people have so vastly different opinions on what perfection is. That makes it practically impossible because everyone has such different opinions of perfection. And any attempts to find a utopia according to one set of standards will always make another group of people angry, and then the problems will be worse.
Scary to think, but I think we are doing fine as we are for the most part.
Just like everything else in the world a group of people are judged by its worst members.
Unfortunately this is only too true. The reason a population is judged on its worst members is that its worst members make up the vast majority of the population. Obviously, this isn't just the case in America but in all countries.
A common theme in this thread is the notion of "freedom". Are you really any more free than anybody else in the developped world? Are you not restrained and expoited by the monster of capital globalisation that has its heart in your very country. The recent revolts against capitalism in the states show that people are beginning to wake up and realise that this concept of "freedom" and "this our great country..." has tricked them into indifference and empathy.
Why do you think Americans are so uptight about socialism? Its because you're living the capitalist dream baby and if it don't make $$$ then it ain't of no interest.
Laurel discussed the role of government in protecting us against the private sector and what she said rang true. It was also a very marxist viewpoint that the state should protect the citizens from expoitation from the capitalists. Are you going to burn her at the stake?
I've raved and ranted about America in previous posts but I really don't want to play at "my daddy is bigger than your daddy" anymore. I'm sure America is a great place to live but so is Britain, France, Germany and most other developped countries. The fact that the media are not allowed to portray an erect penis over here really doesn't bother me that much at the end of the day. Its only porn for christ's sake!
Give 'em whisky and women. That'll keep 'em quiet!
May we all live long and prosper and stop needing to be the best.
Flagg
Unfortunately this is only too true. The reason a population is judged on its worst members is that its worst members make up the vast majority of the population. Obviously, this isn't just the case in America but in all countries.
A common theme in this thread is the notion of "freedom". Are you really any more free than anybody else in the developped world? Are you not restrained and expoited by the monster of capital globalisation that has its heart in your very country. The recent revolts against capitalism in the states show that people are beginning to wake up and realise that this concept of "freedom" and "this our great country..." has tricked them into indifference and empathy.
Why do you think Americans are so uptight about socialism? Its because you're living the capitalist dream baby and if it don't make $$$ then it ain't of no interest.
Laurel discussed the role of government in protecting us against the private sector and what she said rang true. It was also a very marxist viewpoint that the state should protect the citizens from expoitation from the capitalists. Are you going to burn her at the stake?
I've raved and ranted about America in previous posts but I really don't want to play at "my daddy is bigger than your daddy" anymore. I'm sure America is a great place to live but so is Britain, France, Germany and most other developped countries. The fact that the media are not allowed to portray an erect penis over here really doesn't bother me that much at the end of the day. Its only porn for christ's sake!
Give 'em whisky and women. That'll keep 'em quiet!
May we all live long and prosper and stop needing to be the best.
Flagg
G
Guest
Guest
Right men, here's what we're going to do. Firstly we've got to make sure that the masses don't revolt. Let them have pussy, drugs, liquor, whorehouses and whatever else they might want. Give them the notion that they are dictating the way their lives unfold. The best way to do this is by giving them opportunity. What they don't know is that all these different opportunites lead to the same thing in the end -> A One-Way ticket into the capitalist system! Hoorah! Once they're there we've got 'em where we want 'em. We'll put them in debt with mortgages and credit cards - that way they'll be afraid to stop earning us/themselves money. But they won't mind because we'll make things easy for 'em. We'll give them 100s of different movie channels (that'll make them believe they've got choice too!) and 100s of other different things to do. They'll never have time to think about what's going on 'cos there will always be another episiode of Sunset Beach to watch and let face it that's a hell of a lot easier to absorb than any revolutionary intellectual bullshit!
Then, men, we've got 'em. We can do whatever we want and they won't ever notice. Oh and ya wanna know thae best bit about all this? The real funny part?
They think they're free
Then, men, we've got 'em. We can do whatever we want and they won't ever notice. Oh and ya wanna know thae best bit about all this? The real funny part?
They think they're free
Well, Mr. President, this is the part I don't get. You correct me if I'm wrong, and how is Monica? The Europeans brought guns, slavery, discrimination against women, etc., to our country and now they bitch about the consequences. Doh! I think we should declare war on them or something.
Gingersnap
Stoopid
- Joined
- May 14, 2000
- Posts
- 1,286
Flagg I am sure there are many countries that are wonderful places to reside. I realize too that it is a popular thing to demean americans and treat them as if they are all big grinning jethros. In fact Flagg I have often wondered if you do not in a way hate americans. I happen to think that this country with all its faults and failings is still wonderful!
Laurel
Kitty Mama
- Joined
- Aug 27, 1999
- Posts
- 20,689
Laurel discussed the role of government in protecting us against the private sector and what she said rang true. It was also a very marxist viewpoint that the state should protect the citizens from expoitation from the capitalists. Are you going to burn her at the stake?
Woah woah woah! I'm definitely a supporter of capitalism. I don't believe in state-sponsored health care or other subsidies - I think the private sector should take on those responsibilities. I think capitalism brings out the best in us and the worst in us, and that the best that it brings out - in the form of innovations in medicine, technology, etc. etc. - makes the system worthwhile.
However, I do think that unmitigated capitalism - like any pure system - can be a disaster. Human nature being what it is, we have to make sure that the consumers which keep the system running aren't beaten into the ground in the process of creating the goods which they are to buy. And, in the case of the Microsoft situation, we have to make sure that one big giant entity doesn't squash innovations by smaller companies in the interest of promoting their own product. That's where laws come in. I think that makes me a realist, not a socialist, but hell I could be wrong...
CreamyLady said it beautifully - I'll toast to that post... Pass me a glass!
As for the Brit vs. American thing, that's gonna be a sore spot forever, I think. I would like to say that as an American, I have no delusions about my country and neither do most of my friends. We know we've done some shitty things in the past, but I challenge you to name a country whose politicians have always acted purely. Britain wasn't exactly the kindest and gentlest presence in India. Any country with power is going to use it to further its own agenda - period.
However, I think we're even more able to judge where our faults lay because we have experience living here, whereas you people abroad are relying on television news to get your information. It's like the soccer hooligans in Brussells - I was teasing you about that earlier, but I know that all British youth aren't violent bullies. Unfortunately, other Americans with less experience with the UK might think that's how it is over there. Same with the Jerry Springer thing - those who have little knowledge of the US may think that's all there is to us, when in fact the reason that's on TV is that it's out of the ordinary, freakish.
This is going to sound really School House Rock, but I think the more we realize that people in other places are PEOPLE just like us, the better off we'll be. Our nationality is an accident of birth. We are all victims of the policies of our governments. I know Flagg isn't responsible for the pre-Partition repression in India, any more than I'm responsible for black slavery.
The fact is that the UK is a lovely green (if rainy) place. The US is a vast area with all sorts of climates and people. I want to go to England one day, and I know I'd enjoy my visit. I hope that you Brits can be as open-minded - because once you strap on the blinders of cultural prejudice, you don't get to see much.
Woah woah woah! I'm definitely a supporter of capitalism. I don't believe in state-sponsored health care or other subsidies - I think the private sector should take on those responsibilities. I think capitalism brings out the best in us and the worst in us, and that the best that it brings out - in the form of innovations in medicine, technology, etc. etc. - makes the system worthwhile.
However, I do think that unmitigated capitalism - like any pure system - can be a disaster. Human nature being what it is, we have to make sure that the consumers which keep the system running aren't beaten into the ground in the process of creating the goods which they are to buy. And, in the case of the Microsoft situation, we have to make sure that one big giant entity doesn't squash innovations by smaller companies in the interest of promoting their own product. That's where laws come in. I think that makes me a realist, not a socialist, but hell I could be wrong...
CreamyLady said it beautifully - I'll toast to that post... Pass me a glass!
As for the Brit vs. American thing, that's gonna be a sore spot forever, I think. I would like to say that as an American, I have no delusions about my country and neither do most of my friends. We know we've done some shitty things in the past, but I challenge you to name a country whose politicians have always acted purely. Britain wasn't exactly the kindest and gentlest presence in India. Any country with power is going to use it to further its own agenda - period.
However, I think we're even more able to judge where our faults lay because we have experience living here, whereas you people abroad are relying on television news to get your information. It's like the soccer hooligans in Brussells - I was teasing you about that earlier, but I know that all British youth aren't violent bullies. Unfortunately, other Americans with less experience with the UK might think that's how it is over there. Same with the Jerry Springer thing - those who have little knowledge of the US may think that's all there is to us, when in fact the reason that's on TV is that it's out of the ordinary, freakish.
This is going to sound really School House Rock, but I think the more we realize that people in other places are PEOPLE just like us, the better off we'll be. Our nationality is an accident of birth. We are all victims of the policies of our governments. I know Flagg isn't responsible for the pre-Partition repression in India, any more than I'm responsible for black slavery.
The fact is that the UK is a lovely green (if rainy) place. The US is a vast area with all sorts of climates and people. I want to go to England one day, and I know I'd enjoy my visit. I hope that you Brits can be as open-minded - because once you strap on the blinders of cultural prejudice, you don't get to see much.
Dixon Carter Lee
Headliner
- Joined
- Nov 22, 1999
- Posts
- 48,681
Thumper
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2000
- Posts
- 4,184
Happy to be here... and happy to be here NOW!
Why???
Past....
Slavery
Child Labor
Widespread illiteracy
Segregation
Oppression of women and children(Father beats wife and/or molests children and it was kept hush hush..too embarassing to speak up...little or no recourse or escape)
Cold War
Isolationism
Now...we can discuss these things.
We only see the worst of our population because they attract our attention...just because all you hear about on the news are bad people doing bad things doesn't mean they are the majority...far from it...in other words , when was the last time you heard "This just in! Local man did nothing but go to work today. Then he went home and hugged his kids."? The ordinary is not newsworthy...and I for one am glad that people going to work and hugging their kids is ORDINARY!
Springer....these people are the sideshow freaks of the present day...
I am sick and tired of all the pessimism in the US...just name one place better to live...no offense to our brethren around the world.
Why???
Past....
Slavery
Child Labor
Widespread illiteracy
Segregation
Oppression of women and children(Father beats wife and/or molests children and it was kept hush hush..too embarassing to speak up...little or no recourse or escape)
Cold War
Isolationism
Now...we can discuss these things.
We only see the worst of our population because they attract our attention...just because all you hear about on the news are bad people doing bad things doesn't mean they are the majority...far from it...in other words , when was the last time you heard "This just in! Local man did nothing but go to work today. Then he went home and hugged his kids."? The ordinary is not newsworthy...and I for one am glad that people going to work and hugging their kids is ORDINARY!
Springer....these people are the sideshow freaks of the present day...
I am sick and tired of all the pessimism in the US...just name one place better to live...no offense to our brethren around the world.
My $0.02 >>>
Well, since tomorrow is the 4th of July, I'll share my thought on this subject.
Visualize the bumper sticker, "America, Love It or Leave It."
I think we just all need to step up and take better ownership of our country. I believe we should all find a way to give a lil' something back to our Country/State/City/etc.
-HB
Well, since tomorrow is the 4th of July, I'll share my thought on this subject.
Visualize the bumper sticker, "America, Love It or Leave It."
I think we just all need to step up and take better ownership of our country. I believe we should all find a way to give a lil' something back to our Country/State/City/etc.
-HB
Similar threads
