J
JAMESBJOHNSON
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Genius does at it pleases, and the rest of us paint by the numbers. The problem is most of us believe we fall in the first category.
"... and how to begin?"
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wanderwonder
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I'd never claim genius (that's a lie. I would in the presence of people who wouldn't know better), but I was the kid who painted outside the lines of my paint-by-numbers kit. Originality, in my opinion, is often in the presentation of an idea, rather than the idea itself. Our inspiration has to come from somewhere, and I'd say it's a compliment to those authors whose groundbreaking works have inspired our own.
With that in mind, would you say that a story begins with the inspiration, or when it's put into words?
With that in mind, would you say that a story begins with the inspiration, or when it's put into words?
Softouch911
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When it's put into words.
I don't think I've ever met anyone who doesn't claim to have "a great idea for a book I'm gonna write someday." Inspiration and $5 gets you a latte @ $tarbux.
More than that -- I vote for the words that finally end up at the beginning of the story when it finally "sells" -- i.e., when strangers finally recognize it as worth reading for whatever their reasons are.
But I do wonder about the notion that excellence occurs "outside the lines." I know it's popular to say that, and I get the idea. But I wonder what we'd think of a painting that had no edges, a story without a beginning/middle/end, a song that has no rhythm.
I've always felt that it's the writer's work to give a shape to an imagined idea with words. Now, if by "outside the numbers" you mean that the author is free to design his own "shape," I'd concur. The problem with even that idea, however, is that most of us feel that other folk should recognize, applaud, appreciate, and "buy" the shape that results .... and they don't.
Books are sold by the blurb on the cover, whether it begins with a "grabber" that lives up to the potential reader's expectations! It doesn't leave much room for carving out new "shapes"! Even here on Lit, compare the number of "views" the the number of actual readers and voters ... lots and lots of folk read the title and the first bits ... and move on. Some stories don't offer some people enough "stroke," and readers don't have the patience to wait for page 5 just because "that's the way life is." Other stories don't offer enough chracter for other readers. And so on.
Sorry for being long-winded.
ST
I don't think I've ever met anyone who doesn't claim to have "a great idea for a book I'm gonna write someday." Inspiration and $5 gets you a latte @ $tarbux.
More than that -- I vote for the words that finally end up at the beginning of the story when it finally "sells" -- i.e., when strangers finally recognize it as worth reading for whatever their reasons are.
But I do wonder about the notion that excellence occurs "outside the lines." I know it's popular to say that, and I get the idea. But I wonder what we'd think of a painting that had no edges, a story without a beginning/middle/end, a song that has no rhythm.
I've always felt that it's the writer's work to give a shape to an imagined idea with words. Now, if by "outside the numbers" you mean that the author is free to design his own "shape," I'd concur. The problem with even that idea, however, is that most of us feel that other folk should recognize, applaud, appreciate, and "buy" the shape that results .... and they don't.
Books are sold by the blurb on the cover, whether it begins with a "grabber" that lives up to the potential reader's expectations! It doesn't leave much room for carving out new "shapes"! Even here on Lit, compare the number of "views" the the number of actual readers and voters ... lots and lots of folk read the title and the first bits ... and move on. Some stories don't offer some people enough "stroke," and readers don't have the patience to wait for page 5 just because "that's the way life is." Other stories don't offer enough chracter for other readers. And so on.
Sorry for being long-winded.
ST
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
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WANDERWONDER
Both.
I believe a writer has to design her stimuli to get the desired response from her readers. If its porn, a boner is the goal. If its humor, guffaws and chortles and choking and such are the goal. You really want the guy in the audience spraying Pepsi and Raisinettes on the back of the head of the guy sitting in front of him.
To do this she can experience inspiration that has the desired effect on her AND/or she can craft an idea until it works.
Both.
I believe a writer has to design her stimuli to get the desired response from her readers. If its porn, a boner is the goal. If its humor, guffaws and chortles and choking and such are the goal. You really want the guy in the audience spraying Pepsi and Raisinettes on the back of the head of the guy sitting in front of him.
To do this she can experience inspiration that has the desired effect on her AND/or she can craft an idea until it works.
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
ST
Someone challenged Sergei Prokoffiev to write a symphony in perfect sonata-allegro form such as Mozart is famous for. He did, and created a masterpiece: the Classical Symphony. But it aint a reproduction of Mozart.
Francis Poulenc made marvelous creations from the Cathoilic Mass. In one of his operas he murdered the entire chorus, one singer at a time, to pare things down to an aria by the soprano. Its wonderful theatre plus glorious music.
Someone challenged Sergei Prokoffiev to write a symphony in perfect sonata-allegro form such as Mozart is famous for. He did, and created a masterpiece: the Classical Symphony. But it aint a reproduction of Mozart.
Francis Poulenc made marvelous creations from the Cathoilic Mass. In one of his operas he murdered the entire chorus, one singer at a time, to pare things down to an aria by the soprano. Its wonderful theatre plus glorious music.
wanderwonder
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Hah! I was almost certain I'd get a bunch of responses that argued for the idea, rather than when the idea turn into words on a page.
Those songs without rhythms, well that would be John Cage's 4'33". It's legend for it's audacity, but I've never heard of it being recorded or performed. Who would care about a piano piece during which the pianist just sits there, all the better to let the audience hear the music of silence? Personally, I find John Cage to be a pretentious twit who catered to academia rather than a deserving public.
I digress. If anyone wants to argue music with me, send me a pm. It's the one subject I love more than literature, and gee whillikers have I some strong opinions on the matter.
I suppose it all comes down to taste, doesn't it? Thanks to high school and university I've learned to appreciate literature that I'd never buy for my bookshelves at home; sure, Heart of Darkness was brilliant from an academic standpoint, but reading it was torturous. Never again, say I.
To return to subject, we all know those amazing opening lines: "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times." "Call me Ishmael." "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Earlier in this thread Dr. M said that it isn't necessary to have a killer opening line for readers to continue reading. I'd agree in theory, but where in that first paragraph, first page, do we convince readers that they're spending their time wisely? I suppose I'm asking for help, more than anything (Damn you, writer's block!). If I use the house-on-fire method, how big does my fire have to be? If I'm writing a series, does every chapter need a fire? Apparently I can do cliffhangers, but I'm unsure about beginning the next chapter.
Softouch911 said:
Those songs without rhythms, well that would be John Cage's 4'33". It's legend for it's audacity, but I've never heard of it being recorded or performed. Who would care about a piano piece during which the pianist just sits there, all the better to let the audience hear the music of silence? Personally, I find John Cage to be a pretentious twit who catered to academia rather than a deserving public.
I digress. If anyone wants to argue music with me, send me a pm. It's the one subject I love more than literature, and gee whillikers have I some strong opinions on the matter.
I suppose it all comes down to taste, doesn't it? Thanks to high school and university I've learned to appreciate literature that I'd never buy for my bookshelves at home; sure, Heart of Darkness was brilliant from an academic standpoint, but reading it was torturous. Never again, say I.
To return to subject, we all know those amazing opening lines: "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times." "Call me Ishmael." "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Earlier in this thread Dr. M said that it isn't necessary to have a killer opening line for readers to continue reading. I'd agree in theory, but where in that first paragraph, first page, do we convince readers that they're spending their time wisely? I suppose I'm asking for help, more than anything (Damn you, writer's block!). If I use the house-on-fire method, how big does my fire have to be? If I'm writing a series, does every chapter need a fire? Apparently I can do cliffhangers, but I'm unsure about beginning the next chapter.
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wanderwonder
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Softouch, you have no need to apologize for having plenty of insights. Have you seen my posts? They're like the Never-Ending Story. Half the time I'm not even sure I have a point.
SavannahMann
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I think we all draw inspiration from those we like.
Most people who write are also people who read. I am a fan of the Rex Stout series of novels. One of the things that gives me pause is how well respected he is by others who write in the field. Many of his books were re-released and had introductions written by current mystery writers. Some agonize over their works, others just pound them out. Rex flew over the keys on some of his books. I believe he wrote one in ten days. This was in the 1950's, when a manual typewriter was the cutting edge of technology. No spell checking software, just an eyeball and an idea.
My most recently posted story is part one of a novel. I tend to write long.
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=326506
Sherri drove her bright yellow Kia Sportage home. It was after 9:30, earlier than she had expected, or perhaps hoped would be a better word, and she was depressed. She was also a little tipsy she admitted to herself. "You should have waited and sobered up before leaving the bar" said her little voice, which had the annoying habit of speaking in the voice of her Grandmother. The above two conditions would have been enough to make the night ripe for disaster, but it was also raining. One of those late spring downpours that Saint Louis and it's surrounding area are well known for. She had been in the bar, hoping to find Mr. Right, and unwilling to settle for Mr. Right Now. The usual collection of losers and Jackals included married men pretending to be single, single men trying to pretend to be cool or hip, or sensitive, or whatever they had read in Vogue this week. Sluts trying to play hard to get, mixed with middle aged desperation trying to find someone to address their own personal biological clock. Sherri knew something was missing, and she was searching for it, or more precisely, him.
Why did I start the story like this? Simple, that is how the story begins. I started to write the story looking for a blackmail angle. I considered and rejected a dozen different senarios before deciding to use this one. An unintentional action with tragic consiquences that leads her to our blackmailer.
Most people who write are also people who read. I am a fan of the Rex Stout series of novels. One of the things that gives me pause is how well respected he is by others who write in the field. Many of his books were re-released and had introductions written by current mystery writers. Some agonize over their works, others just pound them out. Rex flew over the keys on some of his books. I believe he wrote one in ten days. This was in the 1950's, when a manual typewriter was the cutting edge of technology. No spell checking software, just an eyeball and an idea.
My most recently posted story is part one of a novel. I tend to write long.
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=326506
Sherri drove her bright yellow Kia Sportage home. It was after 9:30, earlier than she had expected, or perhaps hoped would be a better word, and she was depressed. She was also a little tipsy she admitted to herself. "You should have waited and sobered up before leaving the bar" said her little voice, which had the annoying habit of speaking in the voice of her Grandmother. The above two conditions would have been enough to make the night ripe for disaster, but it was also raining. One of those late spring downpours that Saint Louis and it's surrounding area are well known for. She had been in the bar, hoping to find Mr. Right, and unwilling to settle for Mr. Right Now. The usual collection of losers and Jackals included married men pretending to be single, single men trying to pretend to be cool or hip, or sensitive, or whatever they had read in Vogue this week. Sluts trying to play hard to get, mixed with middle aged desperation trying to find someone to address their own personal biological clock. Sherri knew something was missing, and she was searching for it, or more precisely, him.
Why did I start the story like this? Simple, that is how the story begins. I started to write the story looking for a blackmail angle. I considered and rejected a dozen different senarios before deciding to use this one. An unintentional action with tragic consiquences that leads her to our blackmailer.
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