Use of foreign language

[AwkwardMD]

Thank you! Please do point me towards your Singlish story, and I'll give it a read.

https://www.literotica.com/s/long-haul-ch-01

The first chapter features a Chinese speaking character, and the second is where the Singlish shows up.

Edit: this is a short novel. I don’t expect you to read the whole thing, but since you asked I shared.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Obviously I don't mean to disqualify mystery and unreliable narrators, both of which presumably have resolution.

If they didn't? They'd be bad stories.

But sometimes unresolved ambiguity is the point of the story.

Rashomon presents several unreliable narrators with mutually contradictory accounts of what happened, and never establishes what the truth was. Inception and American Psycho leave unanswered questions over whether the story that's just been told is real or just a phantasm in the protagonist's mind. Picnic at Hanging Rock leaves a mystery as to what happened to the girls. The Lady or the Tiger? establishes a terrible dilemma and then leaves it to the reader to speculate on how it ends. And so on.

The world is often confusing and unknowable, and it's valid and interesting for fiction to reflect that sometimes.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

The Lady or the Tiger?

I had not read that before and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Now to write an absolutely awful porn parody...

 

[Voboy]

But sometimes unresolved ambiguity is the point of the story.

Rashomon presents several unreliable narrators with mutually contradictory accounts of what happened, and never establishes what the truth was. Inception and American Psycho leave unanswered questions over whether the story that's just been told is real or just a phantasm in the protagonist's mind. Picnic at Hanging Rock leaves a mystery as to what happened to the girls. The Lady or the Tiger? establishes a terrible dilemma and then leaves it to the reader to speculate on how it ends. And so on.

The world is often confusing and unknowable, and it's valid and interesting for fiction to reflect that sometimes.

Rashomon had resolution.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Rashomon had resolution.

Are you talking in a general "satisfying ending" sense, or resolution specifically to the conflicting accounts of events?

 

[Voboy]

Are you talking in a general "satisfying ending" sense, or resolution specifically to the conflicting accounts of events?

First one.

It's a good story because the audience leaves thoughtful. It'd be a bad story if the audience left confused.

 

[Bramblethorn]

First one.

It's a good story because the audience leaves thoughtful. It'd be a bad story if the audience left confused.

Ah okay. From your earlier comment about "mystery and unreliable narrators, both of which presumably have resolution", I thought you meant "resolution" as in "establish what the truth is", but I might've misunderstood that.

 

[Otto26]

The story I am trying to finish contains a brief conversation between two characters in Spanish. The use of Spanish is purposeful, as they do not want bystanders to understand what they are saying. It is only about 10-12 lines. Will this create an issue for approval?

Not that I'm aware of. I've got three stories that make (poor) use of Esperanto. I included a translation of phrases at the end of the stories. I had no problems getting my stories approved for publication here. Some readers complained after publication.

 

[Voboy]

I'm currently in the process of figuring out how a character could do an intentional innuendo, in old English, that could be misheard by a speaker of Norman French.

It's proving difficult. Might just do it in modern English.

 

[StillStunned]

I'm currently in the process of figuring out how a character could do an intentional innuendo, in old English, that could be misheard by a speaker of Norman French.

It's proving difficult. Might just do it in modern English.

"If tha's come for t'regatta,
Tha's come a fortnit too late."

A true and accurate record of a Saxon taunting a Norman.

 

[Voboy]

"If tha's come for t'regatta,
Tha's come a fortnit too late."

A true and accurate record of a Saxon taunting a Norman.

I'm confused. "Regatta" is not that old a word.

I need a pun along the lines of a woman taunting another woman, referring to "honey" and getting it intentionally wrong so that it becomes a slight in the other language. To do it right, I'd need to figure out the Norman French word for honey and then figure out a way that another, sexually offensive term might be substituted... the issue being that I'm writing in modern English, meaning the pun is unlikely to work properly.

Might be easier to simply do it in modern English, start to finish. Which would be inauthentic, but it would be much easier for a reader to follow. That's what I'm most likely to end up doing.

"Honey" is miel in French, and if it's similar in Norman, I could do a pun involving a term like "meal..." except that meal doesn't mean meal in Old English.

It is, quite possibly, a bridge too far. If only I were a more cunning linguist.

 

[StillStunned]

I'm confused. "Regatta" is not that old a word.

I need a pun along the lines of a woman taunting another woman, referring to "honey" and getting it intentionally wrong so that it becomes a slight in the other language. To do it right, I'd need to figure out the Norman French word for honey and then figure out a way that another, sexually offensive term might be substituted... the issue being that I'm writing in modern English, meaning the pun is unlikely to work properly.

Might be easier to simply do it in modern English, start to finish. Which would be inauthentic, but it would be much easier for a reader to follow. That's what I'm most likely to end up doing.

"Honey" is miel in French, and if it's similar in Norman, I could do a pun involving a term like "meal..." except that meal doesn't mean meal in Old English.

It is, quite possibly, a bridge too far. If only I were a more cunning linguist.

This is tricky, because unlike in modern times people in the past usually spoke multiple languages quite fluently. In Norman England, most people above the level of Dennis the Mud Farmer would probably speak (what would by this time be) Early Middle English as well as Norman French.

Also, remember that by 1066 the Normans had only been settled in Normandy for a short time, and originally spoke Norse, and still maintained close ties with the Scandinavians of their time. And England had been ruled by Danish kings until 25 years or so before the Conquest. Large parts of what was considered England had substantial Scandinavian populations, and interactions all across the North Sea area had been common for centuries. Queen Emma spent decades going back and forth, and setting up various husbands and sons for success or failure.

To avoid the issue, you might be best served with just having the listener mishear the speaker.

 

[Voboy]

Ah.

This is tricky, because unlike in modern times people in the past usually spoke multiple languages quite fluently. In Norman England, most people above the level of Dennis the Mud Farmer would probably speak (what would by this time be) Early Middle English as well as Norman French.

Yes indeed. I play with this concept often. One of my characters is a noble Breton/Norman member of the invader class, the other a poor Saxon beekeeper who snared a Norman husband in 1067 and, by 1075, speaks passable French.

To avoid the issue, you might be best served with just having the listener mishear the speaker.

I want it to be very intentional. I want both women to realize precisely what is being said, both overtly and covertly. I think I'll probably ignore the demands of contemporary language and just pretend everyone in the story speaks modern English.

She'll make the insulting slip, then shrug and say something like, "Oopsy. I keep forgetting how to say things in Norman. My bad!" with a big, gloating smile on her face.