Anonymous Feedback (comments & PM's)

[Joeehartley]

Why wouldn't it be better, as many have suggested for years, to just record the rating beside each title and let the reader decide where that fits on their scale of what they'll read?

But again, this conversation crops up every three days here--just wheel spinning.

I'm not sure that I understand what you are suggesting. Are you suggesting to make the rating, fair or unfair, to become public?

-Joe-

 

[sr71plt]

I'm not sure that I understand what you are suggesting. Are you suggesting to make the rating, fair or unfair, to become public?

-Joe-

You didn't answer my question on how you know that when authors stop posting here they are leaving the site because of unfavorable anonymous comments on their stories. (I know a couple, for instance, who only stopped posting because they died.)

Now we can add to that how do you know ratings are fair or unfair?

Yes, I agree with those who suggest that the rating just be appended to the story title everywhere it appears. Some other story sites do that.

You seem to question having a rating at all.

 

[Joeehartley]

Answer your question

I've read in forums such as this that writers are no longer posting because of the comments and/or ratings. Bostonfictionwriter just indicated the same on this thread.

I indicated my belief in the unfairness of the rating system above where a vote of 1 has more power to damage an overall rating than a rating of 5 does to raise it.

I like having a rating I just don't believe that one person's rating need to have an unfair advantage. I believe that a three star system would be more fair.

-Joe-

 

[sr71plt]

By the way, Joe, all of the ratings on stories are already "public." If you go to the category lists, you'll find all stories listed alphabetically, and their current rating (with a posting delay of a couple of hours) is listed there as well. The only blanks are the ones that either haven't received any votes or have voting turned off.

 

[michchick98]

In all honesty, why should someone be anonymous when posting a comment or sending a PM? If comments and feedback can be sent anonymously, then writers ought to post their stories anonymously to avoid the negative votes of cowards who have a hate on going for specific writers.

Every time this subject comes up, and it has come up quite a bit in the past, I always tell the authors to simply turn off anonymous feedback. This way, a person has to log in to comment on your story or send you feedback. It won't keep him or her from voting, however.

If you do this, it may also cut down on the number of comments you receive because the people who post positive anonymous comments or send positive anonymous email may choose to remain anonymous for privacy reasons.

I've given these instructions several times over the past few months, but some choose to ignore them and instead constantly complain about anonymous comments. The option is there for us to stop it, but apparently some choose not to use that option.

However, I do have to agree with sr71plt. With as long as this complaint has been circulating, if nothing has been done by now, chances are it'll never get done.

---

How to turn off anonymous comments - step-by-step:

1. Go to http://www.literotica.com/members/main.php
2. Under Main, Click - Options
3. Click the "No" radio button (circle) beside "Accept Anonymous Feedback?"
4. Click the "Save Changes To Options" button
5. Log out
6. Go to any of your stories and try to leave a comment without signing in. You shouldn't be able to.

This works with every story. The attachments below are screen shots from before and after changing my settings.

anon1.jpg is with anonymous comments turned on and anon2.jpg is with anonymous comments turned off and me logged out of Lit.

 

[Joeehartley]

turn off anon feedback

Thank you for that. I thought that I could only turn off all feedback. I just turned off anon feedback.

-Joe-

 

[driphoney]

Every time this subject comes up, and it has come up quite a bit in the past, I always tell the authors to simply turn off anonymous feedback. This way, a person has to log in to comment on your story or send you feedback. It won't keep him or her from voting, however.

I've given these instructions several times over the past few months, but some choose to ignore them and instead constantly complain about anonymous comments. The option is there for us to stop it, but apparently some choose not to use that option.

How to turn off anonymous comments - step-by-step:

1. Go to http://www.literotica.com/members/main.php
2. Under Main, Click - Options
3. Click the "No" radio button (circle) beside "Accept Anonymous Feedback?"
4. Click the "Save Changes To Options" button
5. Log out
6. Go to any of your stories and try to leave a comment without signing in. You shouldn't be able to.

This works with every story. The attachments below are screen shots from before and after changing my settings.

anon1.jpg is with anonymous comments turned on and anon2.jpg is with anonymous comments turned off and me logged out of Lit.

Thank you for explaining this slowly and with simple words so that even I could understand how this is done. I've read your advice, but could never figure out where to find it.

I just like knowing stuff. I'm not turning mine off. I get so few comments and the negative ones that come in anon are usually entertaining. I've actually gotten some wonderful anon feedback. Would have hated to miss out on that.

 

[michchick98]

Thank you for explaining this slowing and with simple words so that even I could understand how this is done. I've read your advice, but could never figure out where to find it.

Glad I could help and I'm glad not all people are disheartened by anonymous feedback. Not saying it's wrong, but if you're new to the site it can be a big let down when people trash your work. I learned early on that the mean spirited anonymous commentors are simply unhappy with their own lives so they have to attempt to make everyone else miserable.

Then I stumbled on a few stories where anonymous comments were turned off and I emailed the author and asked how she did it. She walked me through it. I've never turned them off, myself, because it is amusing to read some of them. The really mean ones I just delete and move on. I think another reason I don't turn off anonymous comments is because I have a few readers who post nice comments anonymously and I don't want to take that privilege away from them.

I think the site owners put the power in our hands when they gave the option to disable anonymous comments, but as I said before, I've explained it, but there are some who either don't understand or refuse to use that option and instead whine about it.

To Joe and Loki: Please don't take my statements above as a jab against either of you. I'm sure with both of you being relatively new, you were unaware of the option.

 

[Loki Olympo]

Glad I could help and I'm glad not all people are disheartened by anonymous feedback. Not saying it's wrong, but if you're new to the site it can be a big let down when people trash your work. I learned early on that the mean spirited anonymous commentors are simply unhappy with their own lives so they have to attempt to make everyone else miserable.

Then I stumbled on a few stories where anonymous comments were turned off and I emailed the author and asked how she did it. She walked me through it. I've never turned them off, myself, because it is amusing to read some of them. The really mean ones I just delete and move on. I think another reason I don't turn off anonymous comments is because I have a few readers who post nice comments anonymously and I don't want to take that privilege away from them.

I think the site owners put the power in our hands when they gave the option to disable anonymous comments, but as I said before, I've explained it, but there are some who either don't understand or refuse to use that option and instead whine about it.

To Joe and Loki: Please don't take my statements above as a jab against either of you. I'm sure with both of you being relatively new, you were unaware of the option.

Michchick, a question if I may? How does ME signing out of Literotica stop others from leaving anonymous comments on my stories? Whether I'm logged in or not, anytime I pull my story up on the website I'm still going to find anonymous comments if someone didn't sign off with their screen name.

By the screencaps/directions you posted, it only shows that you yourself have to log in to add a comment (to your own story or someone else's I'm not sure). My having to sign in to add comments to story doesn't seem like it relates to someone leaving anonymous comments on my stories, if I read your post correct (and having reread it to comprehend what you're saying, I'm sure I got the gist of it). Because by what your post says, to leave comments in the first place, one must be signed in. What I can't seem to connect is how my logging in and logging out affects a coward who wants to troll me and troll my stories?

Not trying to troll, but you do know the difference between feedback and comments right? I've got anonymous feedback shut off, have had it like that for years now. No one can anonymously send messages directly to me, but they still are able to leave anonymous comments. It's the anonymous comments that have got me pissed off, as I already disabled anonymous feedback some time back.

See, where I'm puzzled, is I've done exactly as you said, before coming in here and reading your suggestion. (As I've been registered here for quite a while, I've often logged in and out of different computers off and on through the years, while keeping my options of no anonymous feedback the same. So signing in and signing out are a weekly thing for me. And having anonymous feedback cut off went into place a long time ago, when the same bunch of pussies kept crying that my stories were unrealistic, or that my writing sucked. I don't mind someone saying I could use a spell/grammar check, but if my story is pulling in high votes and getting comments like "Oh this is so hot, please continue" and several other comments are leaving the same comment, it reeks of trolling being told that very same story flat out sucks. It comes off like "well all these people enjoyed it, i'm going to hate on it just because i can.")

Declining anonymous feedback only means nobody can send you anonymous emails (feedback that is sent directly to your account registered email address), but it doesn't stop the cowards from posting anonymous comments. So I'm really hoping to understand what you mean by saying anonymous comments can be turned off. If you've found that part out, I'd be so happy to see how it's done.

And again, please understand my reply isn't to troll you, but to try to understand what you mean when you say anonymous comments can be turned off by selecting disable anonymous feedback and then signing out and trying to comment on the story. I'm afraid the train of thought doesn't flow from A to B to C as there seems to be a disconnect. Anonymous feedback (personal message sent to you that you receive at your account registered email address) and anonymous comments (comments that show up at the end of your story on the website) are different animals. Both suck, but turning one off doesn't necessarily turn the other off. And having to sign in to add a comment doesn't mean nobody can leave anonymous comments on your story's webpage, it just means for you to leave comments in the first place you must first be registered and then logged in. How that relates to avoiding anonymous comments is what I fail to see.
And again, despite how this may read or the tone, I'm not trying to be a troll. For heavens sake, if you really can disable anonymous comments I'd love to hear about that, please!

 

[sr71plt]

I haven't done it myself because I don't agonize over obstinate self-flagellation on this issue, but I'm pretty sure if Michchick says it can be done, it can be done. She's been around here for some time and shows every evidence of knowing how the systems work. Maybe spend some of your long post time giving it another shot?

 

[Loki Olympo]

Joe I agree with you on the 3 star system. Much easier to wrap around and get a fair score that way. 5 stars leaves too much wriggle room in my opinion

 

[michchick98]

Michchick, a question if I may? How does ME signing out of Literotica stop others from leaving anonymous comments on my stories? Whether I'm logged in or not, anytime I pull my story up on the website I'm still going to find anonymous comments if someone didn't sign off with their screen name.
~snip~

Not trying to troll, but you do know the difference between feedback and comments right? I've got anonymous feedback shut off, have had it like that for years now. No one can anonymously send messages directly to me, but they still are able to leave anonymous comments. It's the anonymous comments that have got me pissed off, as I already disabled anonymous feedback some time back.


See, where I'm puzzled, is I've done exactly as you said, before coming in here and reading your suggestion.

~snip~

Declining anonymous feedback only means nobody can send you anonymous emails (feedback that is sent directly to your account registered email address), but it doesn't stop the cowards from posting anonymous comments. So I'm really hoping to understand what you mean by saying anonymous comments can be turned off. If you've found that part out, I'd be so happy to see how it's done.

~snip~

And having to sign in to add a comment doesn't mean nobody can leave anonymous comments on your story's webpage, it just means for you to leave comments in the first place you must first be registered and then logged in. How that relates to avoiding anonymous comments is what I fail to see.
And again, despite how this may read or the tone, I'm not trying to be a troll. For heavens sake, if you really can disable anonymous comments I'd love to hear about that, please!

I know the difference between feedback and comments, and if you'd read my post and follow the directions, you'd see why I suggested for you to sign out....so you can test to see if turning off anonymous feedback works as it should on your stories.

If you can't send anonymous feedback to yourself, anyone else not logged in can't either.The screen shots below are from your member page and from one of your stories. I can't send you anonymous feedback. I have to include a user name for the COMMENTS and include an email address for the FEEDBACK.

If you are getting anonymous feedback (and by the way, you said earlier anonymous PMs [by PMs, I assumed you meant PMs through the message forums here], which is not possible as far as I know) then you should send a PM to Laurel and/or Manu and tell them that people are able to send you FEEDBACK and post COMMENTS anonymously. Examine the screen shots closely and you'll see what I mean. Check the first story on your list. I left a COMMENT for you and I couldn't do it anonymously, I had to be logged in. If I send you FEEDBACK, I have to include an email address.

After all this, I'm wondering why it bugs you so bad. Just delete the comments and move on if they bug you that much. No need to pop a vein over it. Trolls will always be trolls and it gives them great satisfaction to know they've hit their mark and annoyed the author. Yeah, I figure a lot of those trolls read these forums to see what kind of reaction authors have toward them and they're sitting back and chuckling at the ones who seem to really be bothered by it.

 

[Loki Olympo]

First, thank you that you understood I wasn't trolling and didn't reply as such.

You are correct, in the original post I mention my hatred of anonymous comments and anonymous feedback. I omitted that I'd disabled anonymous feedback, as I didn't think anyone would point out it could be shut off. I apologize sincerely on that front.

I read your comment on my first story, and so I went and did a test on your first story too. (you may delete the comment if you so like).

I logged out cleared out my cookies and shut down my pc for half an hour (got some grub). I signed back in moments ago, read your comment, came here and read your message.

Again, to test I selected your first post, and I just left an anonymous comment. When it prompted me to leave a comment, it had an option to comment anonymously, comment with my user name Loki Olympo, or sign out as Loki and sign in under a different screen name.


Picture 3 really puzzles me, I don't know what happened. As recent as two days ago there was an anonymous comment left on one of my latest stories.

And also just seconds ago I did a test on your first and second stories with the anonymous comment being allowed. It'll show anonymous for the user, but i signed off within the comment itself that i posted the comment.

 

[michchick98]

First, thank you that you understood I wasn't trolling and didn't reply as such.

You are correct, in the original post I mention my hatred of anonymous comments and anonymous feedback. I omitted that I'd disabled anonymous feedback, as I didn't think anyone would point out it could be shut off. I apologize sincerely on that front.

I read your comment on my first story, and so I went and did a test on your first story too. (you may delete the comment if you so like).

I logged out cleared out my cookies and shut down my pc for half an hour (got some grub). I signed back in moments ago, read your comment, came here and read your message.

Again, to test I selected your first post, and I just left an anonymous comment. When it prompted me to leave a comment, it had an option to comment anonymously, comment with my user name Loki Olympo, or sign out as Loki and sign in under a different screen name.

Right, because as I said, I leave anonymous comments on for those who prefer their privacy. If I get nasty comments, I delete them, even from people who do/are logged in. However, you couldn't leave anonymous comments or send yourself anonymous feedback because you've chosen to turn that option off.

 

[Loki Olympo]

I'm sorry for the two anonymous comment tests. i'd been under the impression you disabled them. Sorry..

What confuses me, is that as recent as May 25 I was left an anonymous comment on my story Incest The Very Best. My settings as they are today have been set that way for sometime now.

So what I'm confused on, and I will be contacting the names you referred me to, is how I can receive anonymous comments on my stories when like you said they shouldn't be there. As your first two pictures show, yes i've the anonymous feedback disabled, and yes there wasn't an option for anonymous comment on the test. I'm confused why then I had an anonymous comment, but i'm stopping the musing and contacting the names you referred me to.

You are very enlightening, and to echo the other posters, thank you for your insight.

 

[Loki Olympo]

So true. The hassle of these cowards isn't worth the hours put into writing stories for others to enjoy.

Who do you go to to have your stories taken down and get your account deleted? As in, no trace left behind?

Thanks

 

[michchick98]

So true. The hassle of these cowards isn't worth the hours put into writing stories for others to enjoy.

Who do you go to to have your stories taken down and get your account deleted? As in, no trace left behind?

Thanks

Simply ignoring the email and deleting the comments isn't enough? I don't know why you let it bother you.

But anyway, you can delete your own stories. Just re-submit it as you would a regular story with - DELETE after the title (Title of Your Story - DELETE) then in the area where you'd paste the story, simply put "Please delete this title" and put the same thing in the Notes field.

It'll take about the same amount of time that it takes for a normal story to post (3-7 days).

If you want to have your whole account deleted (including your stories) in one shot, send a PM to Laurel. Just find her name at the top of the index page on one of the forums, click on it, then click on "Send a Private Message to Laurel." I don't know how long it'll take for that, but I'd guess that if you try to sign into Literotica and can't, then your account was deleted.

Although as I said, I don't know why you're letting the trolls bother you. As writers we ALL have to deal with negative feedback. The really nasty stuff I ignore. The constructive criticism I take into consideration and try to improve my writing.

 

[MiliktheRed]

If it was up to me, only posted writers would get a vote. Anyone who has not written a story has no credibility to judge the work of others. I also agree that it should not be annon. To many voters are just trying to vote down others for the sake of flamming, not for the content of the story.
Of course, that's just my opinion. I don't expect anything to change soon

 

[Loki Olympo]

Simply ignoring the email and deleting the comments isn't enough? I don't know why you let it bother you.


Although as I said, I don't know why you're letting the trolls bother you. As writers we ALL have to deal with negative feedback. The really nasty stuff I ignore. The constructive criticism I take into consideration and try to improve my writing.

I contacted Laurel and took the opening steps into closing my account and getting my stories removed, thanks for the help

One of the first replies to this thread was: If you don't like the trolls, go somewhere else. As several guys keep repeating to me, don't hold your breath waiting for the trolls to be dealt with. They're here, end of story.

If the mods aren't going to do anything, then why add fuel to the fire by continuing to post stories. For me its stress relieving, a hobby to do when I luck into spare time.

Having these pussies hide behind anonymity, trolling me for nothing other than having the free time to do so, pisses me off. Why am I going to contribute to a site hours of my free time and my stories, just to have the same site encourage such cowardly behavior by allowing them to continue like nothing. If these pussies can get away with their trolling, why try to keep going?

Constructive criticism I don't mind, but whats constructive about racist bigoted remarks & comments from pussies too scared to sign off with their name? Fuck that. If I toss in a few hours into a story and watch it get hit with anonymous comments by anonymous cowards, then who's the real asshole? The guys hiding behind anonymity, or me for thinking it'll change?

I guess it'll be Kirsten from here on out.

 

[driphoney]

If it was up to me, only posted writers would get a vote. Anyone who has not written a story has no credibility to judge the work of others. I also agree that it should not be annon. To many voters are just trying to vote down others for the sake of flamming, not for the content of the story.
Of course, that's just my opinion. I don't expect anything to change soon

I find that most of the feedback I get (which isn't much) to be very credible! I love when an apparently non-writer (for how can I know what they do in real life?) enjoys my story! And if not for the readers, why post at all? And, frankly, it creeps me out, the thought of only writers critiquing my stuff! I'm thinking writers would be much harsher judges. Have you ever read through some of the Story Discussion critiques? Yikes! Takes some real maturity and balls to do that.

 

[michchick98]

I contacted Laurel and took the opening steps into closing my account and getting my stories removed, thanks for the help

One of the first replies to this thread was: If you don't like the trolls, go somewhere else. As several guys keep repeating to me, don't hold your breath waiting for the trolls to be dealt with. They're here, end of story.

If the mods aren't going to do anything, then why add fuel to the fire by continuing to post stories. For me its stress relieving, a hobby to do when I luck into spare time.

Having these pussies hide behind anonymity, trolling me for nothing other than having the free time to do so, pisses me off. Why am I going to contribute to a site hours of my free time and my stories, just to have the same site encourage such cowardly behavior by allowing them to continue like nothing. If these pussies can get away with their trolling, why try to keep going?

Constructive criticism I don't mind, but whats constructive about racist bigoted remarks & comments from pussies too scared to sign off with their name? Fuck that. If I toss in a few hours into a story and watch it get hit with anonymous comments by anonymous cowards, then who's the real asshole? The guys hiding behind anonymity, or me for thinking it'll change?

I guess it'll be Kirsten from here on out.

Well, you've said you've turned off anonymous feedback, correct? If you're still receiving it, perhaps first you should contact Laurel about that. With the anonymous feedback disabled, you shouldn't be receiving it. Anyone commenting should have to log in with a user ID.

It could very well be a glitch in the system. Have you asked others if they have the same issues? If so, it may be a site wide, but sporadic problem that the site administrators are unaware of.

With all the changes as of late with the programming for the site (adding Series headers and categories) it may have affected something else as well.

I do understand your frustration with the anonymous comments, but I think you're letting it get to you far more than it should. The trolls want the attention and by pulling your stories and your account, you're giving them exactly what they want.

And if you go to other sites, you'll have the same problems. Anywhere it's possible for someone to troll anonymously, it'll happen.

Whatever your final decision, good luck to you.

 

[KillerMuffin]

A few things to think about.
First, some statistics. Everyone who is a "member" of the story side is also a member of the forums, so if you click members list above, you can see the names of everyone + alternate identites that this site has as a member. That number is currently: 862,424 Now, according to alexa.com, Lit is ranked 774th in traffic, globally. Yesterday, .102% of internet users globally came to Literotica. The average is about .09% Google gets about 30% of internet users globally every day and they're ranked #1. We're talking about millions of unique hits every single day. Now that doesn't seem like much, but considering that according to internetworldstats.com, the number of internet users globally, this year, is about: 1,596,270,108, that means that about 143,664,310 people hit this site every day. Less than 1 million people have are members. Forcing people to sign in to leave comments will only stop comments.

Second, the site is about readers, not just writers. Ever wonder why so many "crappy" stories get through? Stories with so many typos you want to beat your head on the wall? Stories that are short, stupid, or pointless? Stories that are so bad, they seem like a joke? Lit has few subjective editorial standards and those revolve around subject matter issues, not quality issues. Lit's about the readership. The philosophy is to let the reader decide for themselves what's good or bad, not one person sitting behind a monitor going through all of the stories people submit. Sure, doing that would put the quality up across the board, but it would also cut out a lot of opportunity for people who just want to put up stuff. The good thing about doing stuff this way is that everyone has an opportunity to share their writing with a huge audience. The bad thing is that the audience grows pretty cynical.

Third, and the one I actually take umbrage at, one does not have to be a writer to be a reader. I couldn't build a car to save my life, but I know quality vehicles. I couldn't build a carburator or electronic fuel injection, but I know which one I like better and why. If you plunked down an ABS system and a non-ABS system in front of me, I couldn't tell you which was which, but I know which one is better and could explain why I like it. People don't have to be writers or have any facility with writing to be good readers. I'd wager that a lot of writers aren't good readers. A reader's opinion is not less valuable because he or she is not a writer or has nothing posted as a writer. Readers are just as capable as writers of reading something and forming an opinion about it without knowing the intricate mechanics that went into building something. It's how the rest of the world can tell that a Ferrari is a better machine than a Gremlin.

There are trade-offs. If Lit limits comments to non-anonymous only, then people will stop commenting. Most readers don't have an account and don't want one. They don't visit the board and they don't go to chat rooms. They read a few stories, get off, and go away. That's the readership. They'll never tell you whether they liked your story or not. They really don't care about you and they never will. My personal and totally unsubstantiated opinion is that the ones who do leave hate behind are either fellow writers who get annoyed by someone else's story for some reason (maybe yours was posted higher in the new stories list), or the nutjobs that troll the sight that think the only good sex is missionary sex between a deeply in love man and wife. Sure, the abuse hurts. Stopping the abuse also stops the genuine people. The best option available to delete the hate. Lit does give author control over that. You may have to be exposed to it if you leave comments turned on, but you don't have to keep it or let others be exposed to it.

Haters exist. They always have and they always will. And they like to hurt people. The more protected a writer is, the less available the readers will become. You may not care about the readers much, but Lit is just as committed to them as it is to the writers.

 

[Guest]

A KM sighting!

And brilliant advice, as always.

 

[Lithium_hobo]

Removing the anonymous posting wouldn't stop people from making negative criticisms of works on the site. This is still the internet, so even with a screen name you can still be anonymous by withholding personal information.

 

[Laurel]

Hi everyone!

I just wanted to clarify the feedback situation.

If you go to this page:
http://www.literotica.com/members/main_options.php
and click the radial box labeled "No" next to "Accept Anonymous Feedback?", then only registered users can make comments on your stories. That is, anonymous users cannot leave comments on your stories.

If you click the "Yes" next to "Turn Off All Feedback?", then no one can comment on your stories.

We'll add some description to the options on that page to make it more clear.

But basically, as a Literotica author, you can:
- allow people to vote on your stories, or not.
- allow people to comment on your stories, or not.
- allow anonymous readers to comment on your stories, or not.
- remove any comment you like from your stories.

What you can't do is:
- make everyone love your work.

Even the most famous, talented, or highly paid writers can't do that, on or off the Internet.