Any advice?

[JMohegan]

I understand where you're coming from and I agree that 'abuse' is a very strong word. However, based on the evidence at hand, the 'dom' couple in question have set a hard task for the OP and then pissed on her effort and dismissed her. The timeframe is a factor but its not an excuse IMHO. It was the OP's first foray into BDSM and it was a very difficult task for her on a personal level. As dominant parties in a dynamic, they should have worked with that and accepted she was making an effort or cut her loose on good terms because she didn't reach their target within their timeframe.

Reading the OP, they abused their position of trust, capitalized on the OP's lack of BDSM experienced and caused her emotional/psychological harm as a result. That's abuse however you cut it.

I accept there are 2 sides to every story but here on the forum we can only ever work with what we're told. The OP sounded sincere to me.

What we've been told is that the OP "met with them a couple of times with no play involved and then once with only vanialla play allowed. As they wanted to take it slow."

The OP "was summoned to go see them this afternoon," but "was dismissed and told not to come back until I was more feminine looking."

A 30-something year old woman's feelings got hurt, by people whom she barely knew. This happens, and it sucks, but it doesn't mean that the ones who hurt her feelings committed abuse.

I understand that people here want to protect her, and feel compassion for her distress. But it seems to me that helping her to take responsibility for her own mistakes, and learn from them, is kinder in the long run than exaggerating any wrong committed by the couple who caused offense.

 

[katt_g]

BTW, you can consider this place - ratty and drafty as it may sometimes be - your second home. There are a lot of good, good people here, with between them, hundreds and hundreds of years of experience in this culture, and hundreds and hundreds of years of experience in life... and a really neat thing about that is that they're mostly willing to share that experience, and to help you gain yours with perhaps a couple bruises or broken hearts fewer than you might otherwise suffer. Welcome.

AMEN and thank you, sir winston! it is so good to have a place to come where you can feel supported and people will tell you how it is! it is tough starting out...looking for the right people to guide you. especially for subs who are told, as i have been, "if you don't do this or feel that way or say the right thing...well, then you are not a real sub. thank goodness for lit!!

 

[Submissive42]

So here was my response to them and as yet have not had a reply.

B and C,
I have taken time to think on what happened yesterday and here is what I have thought. We started contact in February of this year and we have met and talked since then. And yes I requested in help in finding the female that is in me. So let's compare the "then" A to the "now" A.
Then: short hair, no make up, men's boxers, sports bra, men's jean, men's shirts, men's cologne, no nails, no fingernail polish, no crossing legs, wallet and no purse, wanting no contact with another man.
Now: Longer hair, make up, pink lipstick, women's panties, no sports bra, woman's shirt, woman's perfume, nails longer, nails done in french manicure, crossing my ankles when I sit, no wallet but pocketbook and purse, wanting to have contact with a man.
The reason that I had not done my hair was that I was fresh from the shower and C said we may play around it with to see if it can be pulled back. The reason shirt was tucked in is that I had not been told that was a butch thing. Belt to keep up my pants up so I would not embarrass myself by having them fall down.
When I showed up and then was told that I looked to butch and nothing was going to happen, it was like a slap in my face. Also that I pissed B off for dressing the way I did. I am sorry that the way I have been could not be changed overnight. And yes, I put effort into this change, more effort than anything I have done in the past. I have taken slack from friends for wearing make up and dressing in girl clothes, something you have never dealt with but I did. I am sorry I could not walk feminine enough for you, but I was willing to learn, but I was dismissed because I showed up butch looking. I am sorry that I do not fit what the box of what I should look like after a short time and no training in person.
I took off work early to make sure I did not disappoint you after what had happened and hurried to get there and then when I arrive I feel I was disrespected and then dismissed when I did not fit B's idea of what a woman should look like.
I thank you for the communication and the questions that you have answered for me but I feel I am not the one you are looking for. I am sorry this did not work out but I am very sorry that you are losing a potentially excellent submissive. I wish you the best of luck.
A

I am feeling pretty good about it and feeling pretty good about me today. I want to take a moment and thank all that responded and that it is appreciated.

 

[gloriann]

I can't say more than most of these people are saying. Those so-called doms of yours aren't, and they made you feel like shit, instead of making you feel great. Fuck that, you deserve better.

 

[Tawny_Temptress]

So here was my response to them and as yet have not had a reply.

B and C,
I have taken time to think on what happened yesterday and here is what I have thought. We started contact in February of this year and we have met and talked since then. And yes I requested in help in finding the female that is in me. So let's compare the "then" A to the "now" A.
Then: short hair, no make up, men's boxers, sports bra, men's jean, men's shirts, men's cologne, no nails, no fingernail polish, no crossing legs, wallet and no purse, wanting no contact with another man.
Now: Longer hair, make up, pink lipstick, women's panties, no sports bra, woman's shirt, woman's perfume, nails longer, nails done in french manicure, crossing my ankles when I sit, no wallet but pocketbook and purse, wanting to have contact with a man.
The reason that I had not done my hair was that I was fresh from the shower and C said we may play around it with to see if it can be pulled back. The reason shirt was tucked in is that I had not been told that was a butch thing. Belt to keep up my pants up so I would not embarrass myself by having them fall down.
When I showed up and then was told that I looked to butch and nothing was going to happen, it was like a slap in my face. Also that I pissed B off for dressing the way I did. I am sorry that the way I have been could not be changed overnight. And yes, I put effort into this change, more effort than anything I have done in the past. I have taken slack from friends for wearing make up and dressing in girl clothes, something you have never dealt with but I did. I am sorry I could not walk feminine enough for you, but I was willing to learn, but I was dismissed because I showed up butch looking. I am sorry that I do not fit what the box of what I should look like after a short time and no training in person.
I took off work early to make sure I did not disappoint you after what had happened and hurried to get there and then when I arrive I feel I was disrespected and then dismissed when I did not fit B's idea of what a woman should look like.
I thank you for the communication and the questions that you have answered for me but I feel I am not the one you are looking for. I am sorry this did not work out but I am very sorry that you are losing a potentially excellent submissive. I wish you the best of luck.
A

I am feeling pretty good about it and feeling pretty good about me today. I want to take a moment and thank all that responded and that it is appreciated.

Good for you!!!

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I feel bad for what the OP is going through, but I also think that it was more of a ham-handed attempt by insecure dominants at what some people fantasize about and call "training" than anything else. I could be wrong, though.

You're right and I do get where you and JM are coming from. I agree that if there was 'abuse' it probably wasn't intentional. I just don't like the idea that self-certified 'dominants' can pick up an inexperienced sub and hold up various hoops for him/her to jump through without giving any thought to the sub's emotional wellbeing or accepting any responsibility for emotional distress that results. I know that wannabe subs are responsible for the situations they choose to handle and the tasks they choose to attempt but when you're new to the lifestyle, there's such a desire to please and to experience new things that SSC often gets left by the roadside. For the couple in question to be so exacting and unforgiving when the sub has made a genuine effort to please and serve is abusive IMO and when I use the term, I mean that they are treating A in a manner that is unfair, damaging and ultimately untenable.

 

[BiBunny]

You're right and I do get where you and JM are coming from. I agree that if there was 'abuse' it probably wasn't intentional. I just don't like the idea that self-certified 'dominants' can pick up an inexperienced sub and hold up various hoops for him/her to jump through without giving any thought to the sub's emotional wellbeing or accepting any responsibility for emotional distress that results. I know that wannabe subs are responsible for the situations they choose to handle and the tasks they choose to attempt but when you're new to the lifestyle, there's such a desire to please and to experience new things that SSC often gets left by the roadside. For the couple in question to be so exacting and unforgiving when the sub has made a genuine effort to please and serve is abusive IMO and when I use the term, I mean that they are treating A in a manner that is unfair, damaging and ultimately untenable.

Ah, we agree, then. We're just wording it differently.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

So here was my response to them and as yet have not had a reply.

B and C,
...I wish you the best of luck.
A

Good job! Informative, polite (non-accusatory), firm... You showed a lot more class in "dismissing" them here than they did, explaining your feelings and giving specific examples and reasons for them. Kudos! I predict a bright future for you when the right (lucky) Dom/me(s) come along and find you.

 

[Corylea]

I'm glad you told them good-bye. It sounds as if you did it in a very adult manner, which means that you come out of this looking a lot better than they do.

I'm glad you're feeling better about yourself today! I hope you went and got your hair cut.

 

[naughtybynature09]

I know now in my heart that is not going to work out between us and I am sad. sad for myself that I am losing out on training but also sad for them as they are losing someone who was trying and willing to submit.
...how do I move on? It took me 4 years for me to gather my courage and post an ad stating that I was looking. I just feel like I have done it all wrong and that I not worthy of submitting to anyone. My mind is like jello at the moment, one moment I want to scream in anger and tell them to fuck off then the next I want to grovel on my knees and seek forgiveness. Is this normal? I am just really confused.

I know how you feel in this respect. I was was with a boy (and I use the term boy because that's what he was, just an immature insecure young guy looking for someone to push around so he could feel better about himself) who did the same thing by trying to make me into someone i'm just not. I've dealt this for most of my life and I have had about 8 relationships that i thought were D/s and yet each time they tried to change me into being someone i'm just not. I almost gave up on it, on myself. I was convinced I was a failure at life because I couldn't find someone who could just respect me for me. I simply told the people who'd wronged me that I was "not their type" just like someone would do in a relationship. Do not give up on yourself just because you've had a try and fail attempt at wanting this kind of relationship. Be careful about who you meet and try to silently test them to see if they really love you for you or are just posing the part so they can feel better about themselves. that's not what a D/s relationship is about. I'm still new to the game myself and I have already learned that much. if this is something that you truly feel that you desire, then don't let anyone stop you from achieving the happiness that everyone deserves in their life.

 

[eastern sun]

There are a number of different relationships being discussed here. It seems important for anyone setting out on this path to clarify for themselves what they're looking for.

Are you looking for a life partner? A date? A lover? A play partner?

Are you looking to change your life? Or someone else's?

Are you looking for escape? for adventure? for suffering? for fulfillment?

It's tricky when we link sexual pleasure or an idea of romantic love with self-improvement and change. Imagine if I wanted to change a habit, like diet or exercise or smoking, and every time I was successful, I got a sexual reward. Or when I was unsuccessful, I got the opposite - rejection of one kind or another.

Is that what you're looking for in a D/s relationship? It sounds like the couple thought they were in line with your expectations.

But I will vouch for the fact that it often sucks to give up that kind of power to another person. They don't always wield it well, kindly, or even with the best intentions.

To anyone who's just starting out, be clear and unafraid to define what you're looking for. You'll probably find it.

I think you handled the situation well, submissive42. But take a look at what your own motivations were. Maybe you did find what you thought you were looking for. But maybe that isn't what you really wanted in the first place.

Submissives often get chastised, dismissed, ignored, rejected - all in the name of sexual pleasure and romantic love.

 

[ihavehope444]

I have read this entire thread, Submissive42, and you are right. You got a lot of great advice. I couldn't say anythng better than what's already been said.

So, here's me, a newbie sub, wishing you, another newbie sub, the best. You did good.

Follow the advice that urges you to really get down to what you really want and then go out and keep trying to find the right dom/s for you. It's all about being happy. Whatever makes you happy. My fingers are crossed for you--go for it again when you're ready.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

First of all, unless you're much more lesbian than bi- or hetero-sexual, I wouldn't call you "butch." Tomboyish, perhaps, but not butch. There's not a thing in the world wrong with being comfortable with your body in a way that may not conform with the "ideal" (so-called) feminine person. For others to *describe* you as butch is compartmentalization, stereotyping, and WRONG. One of the most "butch-looking" women I ever knew - a softball- and basketball-playing athlete, just about 6 feet tall, slender (but not skinny) and small-breasted, short-haired and muscular enough to bench over 200 pounds - was at the same time 100% female and 100% feminine... just not "girly." On the other hand, I also knew a gorgeous, petite little blonde gal who always dressed in frilly little things and who looked like just about every man's dreamed-of pedestal-sitter who was as confirmed a lesbian, and the dominant, "masculine" partner in every relationship she ever had. Ever hear that old saw about books and covers? It's damn good advice.

Excuse the crudity, but the female in you is between your legs and slightly north of there (internally). Sounds more to me that they wanted to find some "girly" in you as a contrast to your "not-soft" appearance. Hmmm... change, anyone? Why is it that so many wannabe Dom/mes go out, find themselves someone new to the culture who doesn't fit their preconceived notion of perfection, and then try to freakin' change that person into someone they're not??? Aaaarrrrgggghhhhhhhh!!!!

And then they don't understand why these relationships don't last. They try so hard! <Sigh>

Sorry, darlin'... about all I can say about this is "Thank your lucky stars he/they decided to dismiss you NOW, rather than after you spent months, years even, trying to change into someone else's fantasy persona."

FFS, if you're going to change your persona, change it because YOU want to change it, and change it *to* a persona YOU want to have. Trust me... there is someone - probably hundreds, nay thousands of someones - out there for whom either your present persona or the one *you* decide to change to, for *your* reasons, is their ideal - or close enough to it for government work.

Home. Curl up in your favorite boxers and a t-shirt with a glass of wine or *a* mixed drink and a good book/movie/anything that can take your mind away from *you* for a couple/few hours. Then get a good night's sleep. Then, when you have an uninterrupted couple hours to think, sit down with a few sheets of paper and write down all the things you like about yourself and the way you "present" yourself - and remember that "comfort," both physical and mental/emotional is very much one of those things. Write down the things you *don't* like. Then, let both of those lists (betcha the second one's a lot shorter than the first, if you're honest with yourself!) percolate in your brain for a few days or a week. You can even add things to either side during the percolation period.

After the percolation (germination?) period, sit down again for another uninterrupted stretch, and write down which qualities that make you up (your "presentation") that you'd like to change, for YOUR comfort and belief in yourself as a person - and WHY. See if there are many. See if any of them are really major. If so, dig down deeper and make sure that *you* want to change that quality for *yourself,* not because it fits an image that you think others want to perceive.


Corylea is spot on. Listen to what she said up there, and consider yourself, the "true" you, as the center of the universe. You can be that for someone. It may take a while to find him/her/them, or for him/her/them to find you, but as some wise guy once said, "To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man." To be true to yourself to and for others is probably about the greatest compliment you can pay another person.

BTW, you can consider this place - ratty and drafty as it may sometimes be - your second home. There are a lot of good, good people here, with between them, hundreds and hundreds of years of experience in this culture, and hundreds and hundreds of years of experience in life... and a really neat thing about that is that they're mostly willing to share that experience, and to help you gain yours with perhaps a couple bruises or broken hearts fewer than you might otherwise suffer. Welcome.

Are you guys still doing that thing in the cafe where you bookmark/save awesome posts?

Cos really, you know.

 

[JMohegan]

So here was my response to them and as yet have not had a reply.

B and C,
I have taken time to think on what happened yesterday and here is what I have thought. We started contact in February of this year and we have met and talked since then. And yes I requested in help in finding the female that is in me. So let's compare the "then" A to the "now" A.
Then: short hair, no make up, men's boxers, sports bra, men's jean, men's shirts, men's cologne, no nails, no fingernail polish, no crossing legs, wallet and no purse, wanting no contact with another man.
Now: Longer hair, make up, pink lipstick, women's panties, no sports bra, woman's shirt, woman's perfume, nails longer, nails done in french manicure, crossing my ankles when I sit, no wallet but pocketbook and purse, wanting to have contact with a man.
The reason that I had not done my hair was that I was fresh from the shower and C said we may play around it with to see if it can be pulled back. The reason shirt was tucked in is that I had not been told that was a butch thing. Belt to keep up my pants up so I would not embarrass myself by having them fall down.
When I showed up and then was told that I looked to butch and nothing was going to happen, it was like a slap in my face. Also that I pissed B off for dressing the way I did. I am sorry that the way I have been could not be changed overnight. And yes, I put effort into this change, more effort than anything I have done in the past. I have taken slack from friends for wearing make up and dressing in girl clothes, something you have never dealt with but I did. I am sorry I could not walk feminine enough for you, but I was willing to learn, but I was dismissed because I showed up butch looking. I am sorry that I do not fit what the box of what I should look like after a short time and no training in person.
I took off work early to make sure I did not disappoint you after what had happened and hurried to get there and then when I arrive I feel I was disrespected and then dismissed when I did not fit B's idea of what a woman should look like.
I thank you for the communication and the questions that you have answered for me but I feel I am not the one you are looking for. I am sorry this did not work out but I am very sorry that you are losing a potentially excellent submissive. I wish you the best of luck.
A

I am feeling pretty good about it and feeling pretty good about me today. I want to take a moment and thank all that responded and that it is appreciated.

.

It's interesting to compare your narrative, here, to this.

 

[JMohegan]

There are a number of different relationships being discussed here. It seems important for anyone setting out on this path to clarify for themselves what they're looking for.

Are you looking for a life partner? A date? A lover? A play partner?

Are you looking to change your life? Or someone else's?

Are you looking for escape? for adventure? for suffering? for fulfillment?

It's tricky when we link sexual pleasure or an idea of romantic love with self-improvement and change. Imagine if I wanted to change a habit, like diet or exercise or smoking, and every time I was successful, I got a sexual reward. Or when I was unsuccessful, I got the opposite - rejection of one kind or another.

Is that what you're looking for in a D/s relationship? It sounds like the couple thought they were in line with your expectations.

But I will vouch for the fact that it often sucks to give up that kind of power to another person. They don't always wield it well, kindly, or even with the best intentions.

To anyone who's just starting out, be clear and unafraid to define what you're looking for. You'll probably find it.

I think you handled the situation well, submissive42. But take a look at what your own motivations were. Maybe you did find what you thought you were looking for. But maybe that isn't what you really wanted in the first place.

Submissives often get chastised, dismissed, ignored, rejected - all in the name of sexual pleasure and romantic love.

Impossible to know what the OP is seeking, or what part of her narrative's true.

Regardless, this is a great post for anyone contemplating a power-based relationship.

In the "getting to know your prospective Dominant" phase, one question that may be useful to ask is: If you tell me to do something, and I try hard to follow through but still fail to meet expectations, what happens next?

 

[Submissive42]

Impossible to know what the OP is seeking, or what part of her narrative's true.

Regardless, this is a great post for anyone contemplating a power-based relationship.

In the "getting to know your prospective Dominant" phase, one question that may be useful to ask is: If you tell me to do something, and I try hard to follow through but still fail to meet expectations, what happens next?

What part of my narrative's throws you off? What part of it makes you think I am not being truthful?

Is it "I love it, I enjoy both equally and serve both Master and Mistress. We have a loving and very supportive relationship and have thought of moving in together! I adore and worship Them."?

At that time it was loving and supportive, I had nothing but respect for them as they had respected me. The moving in together would of been way down the road but the discussion had been brought up. And at that time I did love and adore them, but when you suddenly find yourself in a box, one that you have no idea what the rules are, and then told you do not meet their expectations than yes it is a slap in the face and very rude.

Why is so hard for you, JM, to take my posting as the truth?

 

[JMohegan]

What part of my narrative's throws you off? What part of it makes you think I am not being truthful?

Is it "I love it, I enjoy both equally and serve both Master and Mistress. We have a loving and very supportive relationship and have thought of moving in together! I adore and worship Them."?

At that time it was loving and supportive, I had nothing but respect for them as they had respected me. The moving in together would of been way down the road but the discussion had been brought up. And at that time I did love and adore them, but when you suddenly find yourself in a box, one that you have no idea what the rules are, and then told you do not meet their expectations than yes it is a slap in the face and very rude.

Why is so hard for you, JM, to take my posting as the truth?

I find it difficult to believe that someone past the age of adolescence would describe themselves as loving, adoring, worshiping, and contemplating moving in with, a couple - following just the cursory interaction described below.

I am fairly new to D/s and recently started to meet with a couple (Male and Female) that I met earlier this year.
I have met with them a couple of times with no play involved and then once with only vanialla play allowed. As they wanted to take it slow with me.

 

[Keroin]

Why is so hard for you, JM, to take my posting as the truth?

I find it difficult to believe that someone past the age of adolescence would describe themselves as loving, adoring, worshiping, and contemplating moving in with, a couple - following just the cursory interaction described below.

No one escapes JM's Ray Gun of Truth. No one! Mwa ha ha!

Trust me, if there's a flaw in your logic - and in emotional arguments there are usually loads of them - JM will find it. (I mean that in the most respectful way, JM). My advice? Resistance is futile, just fly the "oops" flag and be done with it.

Look, 42, beginnings of relationships are fraught with all kinds of fun chemicals that turn our brains to taffy. It is nigh on impossible to navigate the swamp of sappiness - I love/adore/worship you/them - even with the sturdiest of boots. You probably did feel these things in the early days or at least you believed you did, which amounts to the same thing. You've ended the relationship, toss any bitterness you may feel in the bin and move on.

But, as I said before, do learn from this. I never use the L word until I've known someone for at least more than a few months, usually longer (read: a year). That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the ride, only that I understand it takes awhile for emotions to settle and logic to return, so I hold off on any serious declarations of affection until then. I find this saves me the dreaded "Love Hangover" and helps me make rational decisions.

JM...dinoflagellates. (Sorry, couldn't resist).

 

[gypsy*seer]

So here was my response to them and as yet have not had a reply.

I thank you for the communication and the questions that you have answered for me but I feel I am not the one you are looking for. I am sorry this did not work out but I am very sorry that you are losing a potentially excellent submissive. I wish you the best of luck.
A

I am feeling pretty good about it and feeling pretty good about me today. I want to take a moment and thank all that responded and that it is appreciated.

Awsome for you, you should be very proud of yourself. Just be who YOU are... You'll find the right fit.

*HUGS*

 

[Submissive42]

Well I received contact from the couple today. Wanted to know if we could chat. I responded that I was under the impression I was too butch for them. She replied to me saying that he judges too quickly and now realizes that and that it was not her decision. She then told me to txt when I was on and I did but then they were busy out and said to contact her later. Which I did and then she said she had just went offline and would chat tomorrow. I said not to bother as they were ones that had contacted me and that I was at this point not their submissive and would not go through this game. I have not heard a response since and I am fine with that. I have too much going on to play games. I hope all are well and anyone like me in thinking TGIF?