Are there any Gothics out there?

[NemoAlia]

Goodness gracious, UCE! That is the single most comprehensive list of Goth groups I have ever seen. I am amazed by your cataloguing skills, let alone the dedication you must have in order to maintain a membership in all of those sites. Wow!

So... share some of your hard-earned knowledge with us less-experienced folks: What's modern Goth all about? What's its appeal? How do Goths relate to the rest of the world?

 

[MrChips]

Iowan Bump

 

[RainCrow]

What's modern Goth all about? What's its appeal? How do Goths relate to the rest of the world?

What is Goth?
Its a question I get asked time and time again, each time its just as difficult to explain. Here's a pretty good sum up.

THE GOTH CULTURE:
Quotations:
"...being Goth, for me, is seeing beauty, and its coming destruction, at the same time. For me..It's the last dance as the walls are crumbling around you..." Beatgrrl

"[Goth] is the ability to find the art where art seems to be lacking; to find the light in the darkness and embrace it for all its worth..." Jennifer Mason

What is the Goth culture?
It is basically indefinable, because "Goth" means different things to each follower. Some factors that are commonly observed are:

Its unique music, art and literature.

The use of extreme black clothing, light coloured makeup and unusual hairstyles.

Fascination with medieval, Victorian and Edwardian history.

Goths tend to be non-violent, pacifistic, passive, and tolerant. Many in the media have mistakenly associated Goth with extreme violence and hatred of minorities, white supremacy, etc.

Followers seem sullen and withdrawn, when in public; they are "happy and carefree in the company of [other] Goths."

"A lot of people turn to the Gothic subculture after having a hard time in school, feeling alienated, and looking for a way to express themselves that mirrors those feelings. Others find the scene through literature, still others want to be shocking, and some people just find black clothing slimming."

Goth music often deals with thought-provoking topics, concentrating on societal evils, like racism, war, hatred of groups, etc. They tend to concentrate on the very "nasty, unhappy" topics that "Westernised culture" wants to "ignore and forget."

A fascination with death. They try "to find a different way of thinking about life, like trying to find beauty in life, pain and death. It's all a quest for immortality."

Some Goths enjoy playing role-playing games. However, RPGs are not an integral component of Goth culture. It is just that those intellectual and creative challenges that draw them to the Goth scene make them more likely to enjoy RPGs as well.

Other interests: writings by authors like Dante, Byron, Tolstoy; German Expressionist silent films; writing music; painting, etc.

History and background:
The words Goth and Gothic have had many, largely unrelated meanings:

The name of the Germanic Visigoth tribes that overthrew the Roman Empire. From this source arose the concept of a Goth as an uncivilized person, a barbarian.

A style of architecture in Western Europe, which was popular from the 12th to the 16th century.

A style of horror/mystery literature that is dark, eerie and gloomy.

Goth, as a modern movement, started as one component of the punk rock scene. As the latter faded, Goth survived by creating its own subculture. The first use of the term Goth in its present meaning was on a British Broadcasting Commission (BBC) TV program. Anthony H. Wilson, manager of Joy Division described the band as Gothic compared with the pop mainstream. The name stuck.

Their use of black clothing was originally "something of a backlash to the colourful disco music of the seventies." It also stuck.

The movement first became established in the Batcave, a nightclub in London, England, in the early 1980's. Spreading to the U.S., it first became popular in California.

Goth is featured in The Crow horror movies (1994, 1996). Other Gothic movies are the original Nosferatu, the colour remake Nosferatu the Vampyre, and the Cabinet of Doctor Caligari.

Popular music bands are the Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, the Sisters of Mercy, Dead Can Dance, and many others.

Religion:
Many Goths reflect popular culture and are probably nominal or devout Christians. Atheism, Agnosticism, the New Age, Gnosticism, Shamanism, Wicca, other Neopagan traditions, and other minority faith groups are represented more frequently than in the general population.

Goths often wear Christian crosses or Christian crucifixes, which many regard as a pre-Christian religious symbol. Others wear New Age/ancient Egyptian Ankh symbols. Some do this as expression of their religious beliefs, some for satire, and others because they like their appearance.

Religion is frequently discussed on the Goth newsgroups. Many songs, band names and album titles have Christian themes.

The public incorrectly commonly associates Goths with Marilyn Manson. "Manson publicly presents himself as a follower of the Church of Satan... He was ordained a priest in the Church of Satan by the [late] founder, Anton LaVey. Many fans refer to him as the Rev. Marilyn Manson." (Actually, Manson is not a follower of that Church; he was simply appointed as a Reverend within the Church by its founder, Anton LaVey.) From this satanic connection, the perception has grown that Goths are frequently linked to Satanism. There are a few Satanists who are also Goths, but they are rare.

Stereotypes:
Goths are NOT all:

depressed, unusually bigoted, violent, suicidal, involved in illegal drugs, Vampires or believe themselves to be vampires, sado-masochists, Satanists, musicians/ painters (and other artists), computer programmers (although there seem to be a lot of them), wearers of black (some wear white and gunmetal), dyers of their hair, users of white makeup.

Source
No I didn't write all this, I just think it’s very close to what Goth is.

 

[UCE]

Goodness gracious, UCE! That is the single most comprehensive list of Goth groups I have ever seen. I am amazed by your cataloguing skills, let alone the dedication you must have in order to maintain a membership in all of those sites. Wow!

So... share some of your hard-earned knowledge with us less-experienced folks: What's modern Goth all about? What's its appeal? How do Goths relate to the rest of the world?

First of all, big blushes at your compliment on the cataloging. It did take a lot of work to sort those out from the rest of my adult groups.

Secondly, I do not feel competent to answer your questions because for all my web surfing, I am still just an outsider looking in on this phenomena. I am way too optimistic and light to be a goth, I think, but I understand the romantic pull toward darkness and death. I write about that a little in my stories (the ones that are going to the extreme site, actually) .

Here are the (very) few things I've picked up. Goths often think of themselves or refer to themselves as freaks, weirdos, and outcasts. And they get a lot of shit from other people, because their dress is so identifiably different from the mainstream. In all these ways except for the dress (I dress to blend in), I am like Goths.

For some people, Gothic culture is just something to adopt so that you have a home away from home, something to identify with and feel a part of a family, but all trends draw people like that. I've heard it said that "real" goths can tell which are the tourists, or the ones that are just dressing-up and not into the ethos.

The goth subculture intertwines with a lot of other subcultures: vampiric, bdsm, necrophililics, Wiccan or Pagan, punks, industrial, gardening, and many others. It has its own music: several different musical styles which are hotly contended within the Goth community about which is the best, and hundreds of bands.

I'm going to post another link, this one to a regular website, not a yahoo group, called Westgate. I found this website last night. It explains, I think, the romance and appeal of all things dark to Goths (particularly the death issue) very well, in text as well as in pictures. It is technically a necromancy site (necromancy is a form of witchcraft that has to do with death) but as far as helping one to understand the gothic mindset, it does the job as good as any site I've seen:

http://www.westgatenecromantic.com/index.htm

Below is a piece of art somebody is selling on that site. I would buy it if I had the money because I think it is beautiful and because I like to be reminded that death is always near and could come at anytime, not because I want death, but because thinking about this improves the quality of the time I spend living. It's also an appropriately "halloweenish" picture.

 

[CrimsonClover]

i consider myself goth andconsider it a part of who i am , so i guess this means a practice it in the "real world"

 

[rosco rathbone]

Goths are NOT all:

depressed, suicidal, involved in illegal drugs, Vampires or believe themselves to be vampires, sado-masochists, Satanists, musicians/ painters (and other artists), computer programmers (although there seem to be a lot of them), wearers of black (some wear white and gunmetal), dyers of their hair, users of white makeup.

With all due respect, raincrow....if one excludes the above from the Venn diagram of possible overlapping gothdom, there ain't shit left.

rothbone

 

[RainCrow]

With all due respect, raincrow....if one excludes the above from the Venn diagram of possible overlapping gothdom, there ain't shit left.

rothbone

All due respect my rear end. Didn't your mother ever teach you if you don't have anything nice to say keep your mouth shut! Guess not.

So how did your post help me in my quest? It didn't. So why did you waist your time?