Aren't women, by definition, submissive in nature?

[Ebonyfire]

And as for Muslim women

I believe that they are not so much submissive, but complaint. Submissiveness is a choice, whereas complaint behaviour is imposed by law, goverment, and religion. Many women toe the line because they know their survival depends on it.

 

[CuteBrat]

i dont know if its cuz im female or what...but ive ALWAYS had submissive fantasies since i was a little girl. and i find i LOVE being submissive in real life.

 

[katteon]

I believe that they are not so much submissive, but complaint. Submissiveness is a choice, whereas complaint behaviour is imposed by law, goverment, and religion. Many women toe the line because they know their survival depends on it.

...I agree...submission, in the true sense to me, is an offering a gift...that isl freely given...as a willing conscious choice, free from fear and recriminations. This freedom to choose is what makes the gift of submission one to be cherished not abused. I also believe that a true Dom or Master would recognize this...but my experience is nil and this is all very new to me ....and I could be so naive, that I could be walking in fantasy land ...lol....But, somehow...instinctively, I do not believe I am...and I am staying true to myself until thus proven otherwise...

 

[Netzach]

This has me thinking about choice vs. options, which is kind of nuanced.

I don't think being submissive is a choice, but I do think one has the option to act on her sexuality freely in a society or not. Likewise being dominant.

To clarify, I certainly experienced the smackdown that female assertiveness gets, but I also had to endure a LOT of "aren't you going to stand UP for yourself?" in my family. With much exasperation, I was kind of weenie child.

 

[katteon]

This has me thinking about choice vs. options, which is kind of nuanced.

I don't think being submissive is a choice, but I do think one has the option to act on her sexuality freely in a society or not. Likewise being dominant...

I agree being submissive is not a choice at this point for me, it feels instinctual...but offering that submission to another person feels as if it is a choice....or again maybe I am just to naive...lol

....With much exasperation, I was kind of a weenie child.

...or possibly just misunderstood...

Kat

 

[Netzach]

I agree being submissive is not a choice at this point for me, it feels instinctual...but offering that submission to another person feels as if it is a choice....or again maybe I am just to naive...lol


...or possibly just misunderstood...

Kat

Yes. AND a weenie. I figured it out later.

 

[FurryFury]

I have the opposite experience. My assertiveness was always punished, however I never let it stop me. My assertiveness was always called aggression, but I knew differently. I knew that assertiveness in a black woman was not only discouraged. I found that most people preferred black women to be complaint. I have never been compliant.

Ebonyfire,

I had to comment on your post. As someone outside of black society this post surprised me.

What I often see is little girls acting very bossy and sassy. I had assumed that they were thought to be cute or empowered that way. I did not know that they were also made to tow the line. I'm very curious about this. To whom are they made to tow the line?

I go into a lot of schools and libraries with heavy minority percentages. I must say the kids are by far a better audience for spoken word and oral tradition story telling in such schools. I love going into those venues and interacting with those kids.

However my son when he was in public was sort of afraid of those wonderful little girls, who to him, seemed far too aggressive.

 

[MechaBlade]

Sure there are exceptions. But for every Ebonyfire and Netzach there are 10,000 female submissives.

Not by definition, no, but by social programming, maybe biological programming.

Regardless, hot little subs make the world go round.

 

[Ebonyfire]

This has me thinking about choice vs. options, which is kind of nuanced.

I don't think being submissive is a choice, but I do think one has the option to act on her sexuality freely in a society or not. Likewise being dominant.

To clarify, I certainly experienced the smackdown that female assertiveness gets, but I also had to endure a LOT of "aren't you going to stand UP for yourself?" in my family. With much exasperation, I was kind of weenie child.

I have a hard time of visualizing you as the weenie child.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Ebonyfire,

I had to comment on your post. As someone outside of black society this post surprised me.

What I often see is little girls acting very bossy and sassy. I had assumed that they were thought to be cute or empowered that way. I did not know that they were also made to tow the line. I'm very curious about this. To whom are they made to tow the line?

I go into a lot of schools and libraries with heavy minority percentages. I must say the kids are by far a better audience for spoken word and oral tradition story telling in such schools. I love going into those venues and interacting with those kids.

However my son when he was in public was sort of afraid of those wonderful little girls, who to him, seemed far too aggressive.

I have nothing to tell you about the younger generations. I can only speak for my generation, and a little of my own daughter's.

Stereotypes of black women have always dictated how black women are treated. As for aggressive children, I have no idea what you are talking about. I see aggression in all children, not only minority children.

I am talking about what is required to get ahead in society. The ability to move within the circles of success. And haivng the ability to talk and have your thoughts and opinions respected not discounted.

 

[FurryFury]

I have nothing to tell you about the younger generations. I can only speak for my generation, and a little of my own daughter's.

Stereotypes of black women have always dictated how black women are treated. As for aggressive children, I have no idea what you are talking about. I see aggression in all children, not only minority children.

I am talking about what is required to get ahead in society. The ability to move within the circles of success. And haivng the ability to talk and have your thoughts and opinions respected not discounted.

Women seem to hold a large portion, I'd say lions share of the power in the community. That's just my perception which could be very wrong.

It seems start out with little girls, talking smart, being (cutely) aggressive in action and seeming to be self empowering in interactions with their peers.

However all the kids are very respectful to authority figures.

Of course all girls seem to have it over boys verbally regardless.

*shrugs*

 

[Ebonyfire]

Women seem to hold a large portion, I'd say lions share of the power in the community. That's just my perception which could be very wrong.

It seems start out with little girls, talking smart, being (cutely) aggressive in action and seeming to be self empowering in interactions with their peers.

However all the kids are very respectful to authority figures.

Of course all girls seem to have it over boys verbally regardless.

*shrugs*

I personally care jack about power in the community. I am talking about economics. Buying and selling power. Power and influence in the workplace.

When you do not have a good career or a job that pays enough for you to flourish. All the power in the community will not help you.

I always like seeing women wield power in the places they choose to wield it in (either at home, or at work). I do not like to see women stuggling under lower expectations and even lower prospects.

 

[FurryFury]

I personally care jack about power in the community. I am talking about economics. Buying and selling power. Power and influence in the workplace.

When you do not have a good career or a job that pays enough for you to flourish. All the power in the community will not help you.

I always like seeing women wield power in the places they choose to wield it in (either at home, or at work). I do not like to see women stuggling under lower expectations and even lower prospects.

I can understand that.

So you don't think girls now are being raised to take power economic or otherwise?

 

[Ebonyfire]

I can understand that.

So you don't think girls now are being raised to take power economic or otherwise?

Nope. I think girls are still being raised to find husbands.

 

[Netzach]

I have a hard time of visualizing you as the weenie child.

Haha, I was pretty much the hide behind mom and stare at you till I got to know you kid. Then I wouldn't shut up around adults. Only kid weirdness. Definitely NOT playground alpha, leader kid at all, when various Dominants talk about how they are just naturals etc. in that capacity, I rarely relate. I was picked on pretty sorely and was pretty overwhelmed, didn't know HOW to fight back. I think sibs clue you in a bit.

 

[Netzach]

Nope. I think girls are still being raised to find husbands.

I have to agree here. Unilaterally and cross culturally. And when they don't - raised to feel like they've fucked it all up, to say nothing of having children versus not.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I have to agree here. Unilaterally and cross culturally. And when they don't - raised to feel like they've fucked it all up, to say nothing of having children versus not.

I have a co-worker who is 35, single, and comes from a large italian family. She says that it is really tough to be her right now. She is not living up to the family expectations.

My daughter got married young, 20 years old, and now she is 27 and divorced. I did not encourage or discourage her, she just did what she had to do. Now, I am hoping she will get her career together before hooking up again. but ya never know!

 

[Ebonyfire]

But I do see that many girls are resisting the pressure to conform to the "little woman" norm. A lot of it stems from the fact that to succeed now days requires two generous salaries not one.

Most of the women I see staying home now do so because their entire paycheck would go to childcare costs. I do not blame them.

 

[FurryFury]

Nope. I think girls are still being raised to find husbands.

*sigh*

Well that sucks.

I know I'm not doing that with my girl though.

 

[ecstaticsub]

But I do see that many girls are resisting the pressure to conform to the "little woman" norm. A lot of it stems from the fact that to succeed now days requires two generous salaries not one.

Most of the women I see staying home now do so because their entire paycheck would go to childcare costs. I do not blame them.

I am a stay-at-home mom right now because I want to be a stay-at-hame mom. It is the best thing for my children. I have an advanced degree and can easily find work in my field. I choose to live modestly so that we can afford to have me be home for our children. I will probably go back to work part-time in the fall.

 

[Pseudonomic]

Nature always overrides nurture. It's been proven again and again scientifically. Monkeys, similar to humans, and human studies have stated the same thing. If it's in your nature, it'll come out.

 

[BiBunny]

Nature always overrides nurture. It's been proven again and again scientifically. Monkeys, similar to humans, and human studies have stated the same thing. If it's in your nature, it'll come out.

Um...I don't think so. Scientific studies have proven time and again that pretty much everything is a result of nature and nurture.

 

[ssinlove]

a turn on

is a turn on for me.

 

[Literotti]

I have personally known several dominant women who I would say are naturally dominant. How they came to be that way will probably always remain a mystery. Some say it is the result of either Nature or nurture, but I believe that both are responsible for this behavior.

I strongly believe that naturally dominant women may, in fact, be the exception to the rule. That said, anyone can learn to be a dominant if they have the desire and the drive. And if they truly enjoy being dominant, then are are just as competent as those who were born with it.

The sexually dominant woman is certainly a rarity in our society. And I believe that many are now coming out because it has become more socially acceptable.

However, dominant women in the business world still have to deal with male prejudice and the lack of equal pay for equal work. Woman have made serious inroads in the corporate world, but sadly it is still a long and hard climb to the top.

 

[Ebonyfire]

If women are so naturally submissive, why have men throughout the ages have had to find means to control females over and over again?