Authors' (and editors') Disrespect of Readers

[sr71plt]

One doesn't have to be an "author" or an "editor," self-proclaimed or not, to be able to be disturbed by any number of writing errors. Just as one doesn't have to be a chef to recognize a good meal.

But it helps to be so to understand the world of writing and editing, to be tolerant of their efforts, and not to be disrespectful and disparaging to them--as you, from your ignorance, have been.

You haven't paid any dues to read here. If what the writers and editors produce here doesn't meet your standards, take your business elsewhere.

 

[PennLady]

If a writer asks for advice, I think that's when to give it. Barring that, what they want and are satisfied with in their Lit. experience is up to them, I think. They don't owe anything to anyone else--certainly not to any vigilante dropping on top of them and telling them what and how they should write.

I don't think pointing out errors in punctuation or grammar amounts to being a "vigilante editor." Although that's a great image. I see a guy on a horse, red pen at the ready...

Anyway, pointing out errors and (hopefully) directing someone to helpful resources or making suggestions is constructive criticism, which people are of course free to ignore. It's not telling anyone what they should write, it's hopefully helping them write better.

 

[talismania]

Anyway, pointing out errors and (hopefully) directing someone to helpful resources or making suggestions is constructive criticism, which people are of course free to ignore. It's not telling anyone what they should write, it's hopefully helping them write better.

You've just embodied what good editing--content editing--is all about. A lot of people think editing means correcting mistakes, which is copy-editing. Content editing, though, addresses the story itself. It's what I like best about working with great editors! They make the story shine.

I like to think editors don't just correct text, but actually help their writers to become better. Like a coach. Putting me through the drills, watching the tape, telling me what I can do better next time, makes me a better player!

 

[sr71plt]

I don't think pointing out errors in punctuation or grammar amounts to being a "vigilante editor." Although that's a great image. I see a guy on a horse, red pen at the ready...

Anyway, pointing out errors and (hopefully) directing someone to helpful resources or making suggestions is constructive criticism, which people are of course free to ignore. It's not telling anyone what they should write, it's hopefully helping them write better.

If they didn't request the advice and you choose to go ahead and give it, I do classify that as vigilante activity. Posting a story to Lit. does not in and of itself serve as a request for correction.

 

[PennLady]

If they didn't request the advice and you choose to go ahead and give it, I do classify that as vigilante activity. Posting a story to Lit. does not in and of itself serve as a request for correction.

Well I think it's safe to say I'm not the only "vigilante" out there, then. I really, really don't see how saying something like, "The premise of your story is interesting, and the characters are good, but the incorrect punctuation {or whatever} makes it hard to read. I think an editor would help you improve" amounts to "vigilantism."

I think, when you post a story on a site like this, and open it to public comments, there is at least an implicit acceptance that there will be critiques of your work. If you don't want it, turn off the comments. Otherwise, what will people say? "Yes I liked it" and "No I didn't?"

I guess I also work from the basis -- and perhaps I shouldn't -- that those who post here have at least a little bit of the serious writer in them, and would be open to constructive suggestions.

 

[sr71plt]

Well I think it's safe to say I'm not the only "vigilante" out there, then. I really, really don't see how saying something like, "The premise of your story is interesting, and the characters are good, but the incorrect punctuation {or whatever} makes it hard to read. I think an editor would help you improve" amounts to "vigilantism."

I think, when you post a story on a site like this, and open it to public comments, there is at least an implicit acceptance that there will be critiques of your work. If you don't want it, turn off the comments. Otherwise, what will people say? "Yes I liked it" and "No I didn't?"

I guess I also work from the basis -- and perhaps I shouldn't -- that those who post here have at least a little bit of the serious writer in them, and would be open to constructive suggestions.

It's just an assumption on your part that they want your technical advice unless they specifically ask for it. There's a whole spectrum of reasons why someone would post a story here. I think you need to think about and question your motivations when you make such assumptions on the story postings of a stranger on a free-use Web site.

vigilante: a self-appointed doer of justice (Webster's 11th)

 

[PennLady]

It's just an assumption on your part that they want your technical advice unless they specifically ask for it. There's a whole spectrum of reasons why someone would post a story here. I think you need to think about and question your motivations when you make such assumptions on the story postings of a stranger on a free-use Web site.

vigilante: a self-appointed doer of justice (Webster's 11th)

I'm not a vigilante, I think that's clear. I have two kids; I don't have the time.

Well, they are of course free to ignore comments, and that's fine. It's not like I'm going taking stories and posting up the edited versions in the comments. Yes, there's a whole spectrum of reasons why people post; and unless they specify otherwise, I don't think it's out of line to offer a general observations such as: "This is good, but that is not so good."

I know my motivations -- to help a writer know of a weak spot in their work, and encourage them to fix it in future efforts. I'm all about encouragement. And there's a part of me that finds it amusing that you'd advise me, a stranger, to examine my motivations when you're telling me not to advise strangers.

However, we seem to have drifted far afield from the original topic, which was a question of why poorly written things get posted, and whether it's intentional disrepect toward the readers.

 

[estragon]

Blackbird Guy, I'll demand whatever I want, and if the authors don't deliver, I'll tell them in a few dozen well-chosen words. And I am perfectly willing to take the hit without bitching as well as to give it. One who posts here asks for feedback-- the good, the bad and the ugly.

 

[sr71plt]

Blackbird Guy, I'll demand whatever I want, and if the authors don't deliver, I'll tell them in a few dozen well-chosen words. And I am perfectly willing to take the hit without bitching as well as to give it. One who posts here asks for feedback-- the good, the bad and the ugly.

Spoken like a true vigilante.

 

[PennLady]

Spoken like a true vigilante.

Yes...he's the Editor with No Name...

 

[estragon]

PennLady, Perhaps I'm not too swift, but I fail to get your last remark. I always post with my handle, never anonymously. I remember commenting on one of your stories and giving it high marks, as it was beautifully written and hit me like a punch in the chest. "Who Cares What I Wear?" is a fucking masterpiece. As for being a vigilante, Blackbird Guy, hardly. I don't see my role as being any more than a reader, but I will state my opinion and stand by it. And if those who don't like my stories want to take me to task, so be it.

 

[PennLady]

PennLady, Perhaps I'm not too swift, but I fail to get your last remark. I always post with my handle, never anonymously. I remember commenting on one of your stories and giving it high marks, as it was beautifully written and hit me like a punch in the chest. "Who Cares What I Wear?" is a fucking masterpiece. As for being a vigilante, Blackbird Guy, hardly. I don't see my role as being any more than a reader, but I will state my opinion and stand by it. And if those who don't like my stories want to take me to task, so be it.

Estragon,

Sorry, showing my age again. That was a reference to Clint Eastwood's "Man With No Name" Trilogy, where he plays a man...with no name. A vigilante, if you will. The movies are "A Fistful of Dollars," "For a Few Dollars More," and "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly." Thanks again for the kind words. And speaking of all of this editing, I know there's a typo in there I need to fix.

Yes, I give my opinions too -- and they can ignore me or question me, but it's there.

 

[tootallday]

sr71plt - Now it's your bad.

When I admitted that I wasn't a writer or author, you made the statement "You haven't paid any dues to read here. If what the writers and editors produce here doesn't meet your standards, take your business elsewhere." You failed to notice I didn't say I haven't done any editing. I have; and on this site.

I love the different ways this discussion has branched out because of all of your different reactions to what I originally wrote. Some, like you, took great offense which led the discussion in one direction. I think, of all the respondents, PennLady offered the most intelligent thoughts. I may have read some of her work already, but I'll check her out and attempt to catch up on my reading.

 

[sr71plt]

When I admitted that I wasn't a writer or author, you made the statement "You haven't paid any dues to read here. If what the writers and editors produce here doesn't meet your standards, take your business elsewhere." You failed to notice I didn't say I haven't done any editing. I have; and on this site.

OK, that's even better. Send me something you've edited here and consider to be perfect now because you consider yourself so perfect, and we'll see what comes out in a backup edit.

 

[favoritesgoddess]

Why should I waste my time?

You absolutely shouldn't waste your time. You should click away as fast as you can and find a free erotica site that publishes stories to a much higher standard than this one.

I'm sorry you feel disrespected as a reader.

 

[tootallday]

My one editing job still in process

See the second series by GrumpyGamby.

 

[sr71plt]

See the second series by GrumpyGamby.

Perhaps a link, just so I'm sure which one it is?

 

[PennLady]

You absolutely shouldn't waste your time. You should click away as fast as you can and find a free erotica site that publishes stories to a much higher standard than this one.

I'm sorry you feel disrespected as a reader.

I think we're getting off track again. I think most of us in fact do not "waste our time" on poorly-written stories. I think the basic question is why do people submit poorly-written stories?

There are obviously a lot of answers, ranging from lack of knowledge to lack of experience in writing to not caring. Is it a mark of disrespect? I don't think so.

On the other hand, there are a ton of well-written stories here in all genres and by different types of writers. So I don't see that anyone needs to go anywhere else for well-written erotic stories. The only "problem" (if that's the word) is sorting through to find them.

 

[sr71plt]

I think we're getting off track again. I think most of us in fact do not "waste our time" on poorly-written stories. I think the basic question is why do people submit poorly-written stories?

Ah, no, I think the basic question is why folks are attracted to be vigilantes when their help isn't requested. So, I think PennLady's post is on track.

 

[PennLady]

Ah, no, I think the basic question is why folks are attracted to be vigilantes when their help isn't requested. So, I think PennLady's post is on track.

I cant help it. I must act to correct written injustices when I see them.

If you look at the original post that started the thread, vigilante weren't mentioned at all.

 

[PennLady]

Ah, no, I think the basic question is why folks are attracted to be vigilantes when their help isn't requested. So, I think PennLady's post is on track.

I think you're kidding, but -- I see the story submissions here as akin to movies that are released. No one asks for the reviews, but they are written, and some will suggest reasons a film is weak, and steps to improve them.

Do you consider movie reviews that suggest better pacing, better dialogue, etc., to be vigilantism as well?

And like any director, producer, actor, etc., the writers are free to ignore the comments.

 

[sr71plt]

I think you're kidding, but -- I see the story submissions here as akin to movies that are released. No one asks for the reviews, but they are written, and some will suggest reasons a film is weak, and steps to improve them.

Do you consider movie reviews that suggest better pacing, better dialogue, etc., to be vigilantism as well?

And like any director, producer, actor, etc., the writers are free to ignore the comments.

I don't think you know a lot about the movie review process. The movie producers do want reviews and pay big bucks attracting them.

This isn't at all the same as posting a story to a free-post and free-read Web site. Most of those posting stories here aren't interested in writing technique at all; they are giving wing to their sex fantasies. A large set also only want to hear praise if they've left the comments and voting open (if they even realized they had an option to close them).

You don't seem to get the simple truth that if a poster of a story here isn't directly asking for a critique of her/his story, you are jumping all sorts of hurdles to assume he/she wants a critique on her/his writing technique. This is completely an assumption on your part--and has more to do with your need to critique than the story writer's wish to work on getting a Pulitzer.

Why won't you let go of this? If you don't feel like a vigilante (I gave a dictionary definition), then maybe you don't want to be one.

 

[sr71plt]

I cant help it. I must act to correct written injustices when I see them.

If you look at the original post that started the thread, vigilante weren't mentioned at all.

No, that's true, we moved off of the anal retentive a bit, but the original post is itself a classic example of editorial vigilantism, so it's still on topic.

 

[PennLady]

I don't think you know a lot about the movie review process. The movie producers do want reviews and pay big bucks attracting them.

...

Why won't you let go of this? If you don't feel like a vigilante (I gave a dictionary definition), then maybe you don't want to be one.

Ok, the movie review was a bad analogy. I'll have to think of a better one. But I think the basic idea that when you put something out for public consumption, you risk (invite?) critique, is still valid.

Why does it bother you so much that I, and others, try to be helpful? When the authors are free to ignore us? If you don't want comment in that fashion, then don't.

 

[sr71plt]

See the second series by GrumpyGamby.

OK, I found it, and it mentioned you by name as editor, so I went ahead and took a look. Didn't make it through the first paragraph before your perfection crumbled, I'm sorry to say.

I thought a blow job would be the right way for Tina to apologize. Then I thought about how much I like my balls and how much I would miss them should I make the suggestion that she apologize by getting on her knees. Then, finally, blessedly, I thought; I don't give a damn!

Semicolons aren't used the way this one is used in the last paragraph. There are options for rendering unspoken discouse like this:

1. Then, finally, blessedly, I thought, "I don't give a damn!"

or

2. Then, finally, blessedly, I thought, I don't give a damn!

(See 13.41 of the new Chicago Manual of Style for discussion of how to render unspoken discourse.)

If you think a semicolon is proper here, you're welcome to cite an authoritative source that can be checked.

Maybe you might stop being so superior and judgmental toward writers and other editors now? There's no such thing as perfect copy and Literotica isn't the New Yorker.