**** Baseball ****

[MathGirl]

We're in Stage 2 right now. It was sunny and warm last week, but now it's a snowstorm outside. And I have to go downtown to the library... *shivers*

<Brrr> Thanks, but I'll take California, not southern.
MG

 

[karmadog]

And I'll keep the South.

Eighty degrees and gorgeous. On the other hand, we got down to thirty-two Sunday morning.

All temperatures are on the Farenheit scale

 

[MathGirl]

And I'll keep the South.

Eighty degrees and gorgeous. On the other hand, we got down to thirty-two Sunday morning.

All temperatures are on the Farenheit scale

I sure hope so. It would be mighty hot in Centrigrade.
MG

 

[karmadog]

We don't get those kind of numbers in C until summer. Even then, it's the Heat Index temperature which get that high only with the addition of humidity. Which is good, because the air is so damp that it's virtually impossible to spontaneously burst into flame.

 

[MathGirl]

Joggerfy

Which is good, because the air is so damp that it's virtually impossible to spontaneously burst into flame.

Good grief! It sounds like you live in a real garden spot.
MG

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Re: Joggerfy

Good grief! It sounds like you live in a real garden spot.
MG

My apartment resembles a greenhouse when it comes to temperatures. A greenhouse in Brazil.

 

[MathGirl]

Undefeated

Wheeeeeee! My baseball team has won its first four games. Life is good.

Don't worry, I won't bore you with daily updates.

MG

 

[gauchecritic]

As my brother is so fond of telling me; The best "new" batter (not batsman btw) that any one had seen in the professional baseball scene for years was a youngish chap who in a practice, struck every single ball thrown at him out of the ground, was a bloke by the name of Ian Botham who didn't 'think much' of the game itself.

I'm going to really really stick my neck out here and (with defference to Diane or Earl or any mathematician/physicist of any kind) say, that a ball thrown from the hand, without touching the ground can't possibly deviate, even marginally, from it's path in the air, thereby making 'sliders', 'curves' and 'knuckles' just so much tosh.

Gauche

 

[Dirt Man]

I'm going to really really stick my neck out here and (with defference to Diane or Earl or any mathematician/physicist of any kind) say, that a ball thrown from the hand, without touching the ground can't possibly deviate, even marginally, from it's path in the air, thereby making 'sliders', 'curves' and 'knuckles' just so much tosh.

I find it strange that someone with so much knowledge doesn't understand the fine art involved in pitching. However just to give you an idea, imagine an artillery shot from an old cannon where the cannon ball is round. The artillery man sets the cannon up allowing for windage, and distance by elevating the cannon. This is known as windage, and elevation. Now if he wants to do more damage when the cannon ball strikes the ground, he greases the the one side of the barrel's bore to give the cannon ball a little spin as it comes out of the barrel. The cannon ball's spinning causes the arc to increase, and it falls short of the target, but spins off laterally tearing into more infantry than it would have if it had gone straight through. That's a slider.

Now imagine the same cannon ball with a glob of mud on it coming out of the barrel. It goes straight for a while, then zig zags uncontrolably. That's a knuckle ball.

Now imagine if you will, the same cannon ball coming out of a different cannon, one with a rifled corkscrew bore to it. It goes straight as hell but runs out of forward thrust just before reaching it's destination and falls twice as fast at that time than it did from the other cannon. That's a curve ball.

DM

 

[MathGirl]

I'm going to really really stick my neck out here and (with defference to Diane or Earl or any mathematician/physicist of any kind) say, that a ball thrown from the hand, without touching the ground can't possibly deviate, even marginally, from it's path in the air, thereby making 'sliders', 'curves' and 'knuckles' just so much tosh.Gauche

Dear Gauchie,
To put it as politely as possible ....... Bullshit! That's like saying a golf ball doesn't really hook or slice if it's hit off center.

It was once thought that curveballs were an optical illusion. It was proven, though, about eighty years ago, that they do curve. It was one of the first uses of high speed cinematography.

It has to do with the rotation of the ball creating a differential in air pressure and the ball moving away from the side with the highest pressure and towards the lower.

I've seen some rather fancy mathematical models that can predict the deviation of a baseball from its original path, based on (among other things) rotational frequency and velocity. It's also affected by atmospheric pressure and humidity. At high altitudes on hot days, the air is so thin that it's very difficult to throw much of a curve ball.

My man pitched in the major leagues for several years. I've played catch with him, and he can throw pitches that "break" about 2.5 feet. There's so much spin on the ball that it makes a "hiss" as it travels through the air.

MG

MG

 

[TheEarl]

Gauche: And what about swinging balls in cricket? They deviate in the air due to the effect of shade and shine on the ball. I think you've dug yourself into a hole here.

The Earl

 

[MathGirl]

Gauche: And what about swinging balls in cricket? They deviate in the air due to the effect of shade and shine on the ball. I think you've dug yourself into a hole here.

My teachers have told me the difference between being stupid and ignorant. Gauchie was uninformed about the aerodymanics of a pitched baseball. Now he knows a lot more about it than he ever wanted.

Has anyone ever thrown a ping pong ball? Did it go straight?
Ever noticed how a tennis player hits up on the ball on a baseline shot? That gives the ball topspin and causes it to sink after it goes over the net.
MG

 

[oggbashan]

Pitchers and Bowlers

The experts can do things with thrown balls that seem impossible.

That is what makes both baseball and cricket challenging games.

I just wish I had as much talent in any activity.

Og

 

[gauchecritic]

ok cannon balls and ballistics I'll buy that. Golf balls and hook and slice easy (I used to play). Table tennis balls (along with footballs) No mass (yes ok they have mass but a void inside). Cricket balls pitch and swing after they hit the floor plus they have a very wide seam. I still don't buy it that a solid ball thrown from the arm and with only fingers or tendons to make any difference (knuckle ball sounds like cheating to me) to its projected path can deviate more than marginally from the given impetus. Still tosh.

As an unverifiable 'proof' Botham smacked everything out of sight from their best pitchers.

Gauche

 

[harry johnson]

math babe

but the question i need answered is......are you delicious?

 

[Dirt Man]

Still Tosh????????

I still don't buy it that a solid ball thrown from the arm and with only fingers or tendons to make any difference (knuckle ball sounds like cheating to me) to its projected path can deviate more than marginally from the given impetus. Still tosh.

The notorious spit, and mud balls were outlawed years ago, as they were things added to the ball to make it do weird things, especially droping like a rock just before reaching the plate. If the umpire, after inspecting a baseball sees that it is somehow defective(even a scuff mark), he will throw the ball out of the game, and replace it with a brand new one. Some pichers use to even carry a nail file to score the ball, and thus change the trajectory. However, the slider, curve, and knuckle balls are all still very legal in baseball, and called Junk balls as they don't fly straight, and true all the way to the catcher's mitt. These types of throws are usually much slower than a fast ball's 90-103 mph. They travel between 60-89 mph Which gives them a bigger dying arc when approaching the plate as well. Some dropping as much as two feet in that last six feet to the catcher's mitt 60 feet from the pitcher's mound.

DM

 

[MathGirl]

Tosh?

I still don't buy it that a solid ball thrown from the arm and with only fingers or tendons to make any difference (knuckle ball sounds like cheating to me) to its projected path can deviate more than marginally from the given impetus.

Dear Gauchie,
I was on your side earlier, because you weren't familiar with baseball and had understandable lack of knowledge.

Now, however, you're just being recalcitrant. Stubbornly uncooperative, too.

A baseball is made of smooth leather with handsewn seams. The slightly raised seams make for greater differential in air pressure when the ball is thrown with very short rotational frequency.

Even a pitcher with a 95+mph fastball will not get major league hitters out if the ball is straight. Depending on how they're thrown, fastballs rise, drop, or move to the side a few inches.

The combination of a pitcher's speed and deceptive movement of the ball is refered to by the arcanely technical term "stuff." A pitcher with "good stuff" is exceptionally difficult to hit.

Pitchers love scuffed baseballs, because they curve more. Batters and umpires hate them.

Even 'off speed' pitches do not drop from lack of speed. There is no negative trajectory at a velocity of >70mph over a distance of 60'6". Actually, the point of release is approximately 56' from the plate. Any downward movement is the result of topspin applied by the pitcher. An overhand fastball (four seamer) has backspin and actually rises as it approaches the plate.

You should see what a softball pitcher can make a ball do. The balls are larger and lighter. A good pitcher probably couldn't make one go straight if he/she tried.

MG the Baseballophile

 

[harry johnson]

pitching

i pitched competitively until i was 18 (torn rotator cuff) and had ok stuff - mid 80's, good slider, good motion, great control....well, one day in practice, as a lark, i put vaseline on the bill of my cap and reached for it every other pitch....needless to say, the ball moved as tho it had a mind of its own. it actually, darted.

 

[gauchecritic]

Re: Tosh?

Dear Gauchie,
I was on your side earlier, because you weren't familiar with baseball and had understandable lack of knowledge.

Now, however, you're just being recalcitrant. Stubbornly uncooperative, too.

MG the Baseballophile

I refer the honourable lady to my previous answer and also to my name, which is;

Gauche

 

[MathGirl]

Re: pitching

i put vaseline on the bill of my cap and reached for it every other pitch....

That's illegal, you know, you naughty boy.

Harry Johnson ......... hur hur

MG

 

[harry johnson]

naughty boy

i think that you should punish me for throwing grease balls

 

[MathGirl]

Re: naughty boy


Harry Johnson ........ ha ha

 

[TheEarl]

I can get a cricket ball to move in the air before it hits the ground. I bowl aiming outside leg, it move to middle stump in mid-air and then jags outside off after the bounce.

Course I can't do it very often, which is why I'm not purveying my leg-spin for England, but it is still possible, even for an amateur like me.

The Earl

 

[MathGirl]

What the #$^%^&&^!!?

I bowl aiming outside leg, it move to middle stump in mid-air and then jags outside off after the bounce.

Dear Earl,
That made absolutely no sense to me at all. I have no idea what you were talking about.

Descriptions of baseball, on the other hand, are crystal clear:

"The portsider toes the slab, takes his stretch, kicks, and delivers a three quarter two seamer which the cleanup hitter catches on the sweet spot. The horsehide rockets over the third sacker and starts to knuckle before the left fielder makes the stab."

See? What could be simpler?
MG

 

[TheEarl]

I'm now going to do something very stupid. I'm going to try and explain cricket to an American.

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Right, now these are your stumps. They are three pillars of wood, about 3 foot high which stand in the ground and are topped by two small pieces of wood which balance along the top, called bails. The bowler's aim is to knock these bails off by hitting the stumps, or to get the batsman to hit the ball up in the air so he can be caught.

Each stump has a name, depedning on who the batsman is. If the batsman is right handed, then he will hold his bat (assuming you're facing him) to the left-hand side. In that case, the right hand stump is called 'leg stump', the middle is called 'middle stump' and the left stump is called 'off stump.'

If the batsman is left handed, then he will hold his bat the other side and so the names of the stumps will be reversed (right = off, middle = middle, left = leg).

The ball that I was describing was leg spin. Leg spin moves after it bounces from leg stump towards off stump. I bowled it in the direction of leg stump (by the batsman's legs) and it moved twoards middle stump in the air. Then it bounced and turned, moving further towards off-stump. It went past the batsman out side the stumps and hopefully the movement has confused him so much that he's misjudged the ball and hit it with the edge of the bat, so he can be caught behind. See? Simple.

Next week: rugby!

The Earl